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  #861  
Old 08.12.2016, 11:57
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

>the migration official said that Swiss people are seen as cold and unwelcoming

If that migration offical had posted that on this forum, all the EFers would immediately groan all his posts and say "maybe it's just you "
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  #862  
Old 08.12.2016, 11:59
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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>the migration official said that Swiss people are seen as cold and unwelcoming

If that migration offical had posted that on this forum, all the EFers would immediately groan all his posts and say "maybe it's just you "
You missed the magic part.......... "seen as"

That does not mean they are cold..... So back to you?
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  #863  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:04
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

Hm... I wonder why the Swiss have a reputation for being cold and unwelcoming.....
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  #864  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:07
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Hm... I wonder why the Swiss have a reputation for being cold and unwelcoming.....
Because a lot of people fail to understand their mentality?

As they say in German: wie man in den Wald hineinruft...............
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  #865  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:09
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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There are many foreigners who feel unwelcome here, myself among them.. but when we try to voice our opinions and concerns there's an enormous backlash, as if what we are uttering blasphemy. Even as a white, well-educated, well-off, married, decently attractive American, people here are still cold, distant and generally unpleasant (I have many anecdotes to support this over the years I've lived here if anyone cares to hear them).
There's your problem, that automatically makes you unshaggable.

But then again, perhaps it's just your fixation on the negative experiences, most people feel and reflect it.
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  #866  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:13
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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There's your problem, that automatically makes you unshaggable.

But then again, perhaps it's just your fixation on the negative experiences, most people feel and reflect it.
Aha, so that's my problem- I just need to be more reflective! Brb, buying some silver paint.
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  #867  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:15
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Aha, so that's my problem- I just need to be more reflective! Brb, buying some silver paint.
I don't know. Is it?
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  #868  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:19
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I don't know. Is it?
We'll soon find out. Wish me luck.
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  #869  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:31
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Because a lot of people fail to understand their mentality?

As they say in German: wie man in den Wald hineinruft...............
Nah, it's because they really are generally miserable people, but are so used to the mentality they think it's normal.

Those of you who say 'it's not the Swiss, it's just YOU!' are really just trying to convince yourself that you've made the right choice to stay here (or you've never spent much time in friendlier cultures to begin with). Laughable is the idea of 'well they make REAL friendships and are not just superficially friendly' - same goes, you've been here so long you are now criticizing friendly people and supporting being a closed, cold, soulless cog in the machine. Congratulations on integrating.
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  #870  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:38
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Nah, it's because they really are generally miserable people, but are so used to the mentality they think it's normal.

Those of you who say 'it's not the Swiss, it's just YOU!' are really just trying to convince yourself that you've made the right choice to stay here (or you've never spent much time in friendlier cultures to begin with). Laughable is the idea of 'well they make REAL friendships and are not just superficially friendly' - same goes, you've been here so long you are now criticizing friendly people and supporting being a closed, cold, soulless cog in the machine. Congratulations on integrating.
I dunno what you're talking about.. EFers are wonderful people. Just look at the lovely messages I've received from them!
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  #871  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:40
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Nah, it's because they really are generally miserable people, but are so used to the mentality they think it's normal.

Those of you who say 'it's not the Swiss, it's just YOU!' are really just trying to convince yourself that you've made the right choice to stay here (or you've never spent much time in friendlier cultures to begin with). Laughable is the idea of 'well they make REAL friendships and are not just superficially friendly' - same goes, you've been here so long you are now criticizing friendly people and supporting being a closed, cold, soulless cog in the machine. Congratulations on integrating.
Give us some examples of friendlier cultures. Being a foreigner I would love to learn.
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  #872  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:42
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Give us some examples of friendlier cultures. Being a foreigner I would love to learn.
Have you looked at a globe? Sad...
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  #873  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:48
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I dunno what you're talking about.. EFers are wonderful people. Just look at the lovely messages I've received from them!
Don't worry, the bottom three are known ****holes, and you should consider bad rep from them a sign that you're on the right path.
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  #874  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:55
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Have you looked at a globe? Sad...
No. Instead I travelled the globe. You seem to be prisoner of your own prejudice about other cultures. Your American white, rich, well-educated, married background after a decade in Switzerland tells me that you have an open mind that closes early (you know ....like the shops in Switzerland).
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  #875  
Old 08.12.2016, 12:55
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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I dunno what you're talking about.. EFers are wonderful people. Just look at the lovely messages I've received from them!
There you have it: Stop moaning about the Swiss. The world is a nasty place. Full stop.
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  #876  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:02
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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Hm... I wonder why the Swiss have a reputation for being cold and unwelcoming.....
Just out of curiosity, how many 100% Swiss friends do you have? And I mean the "100% Swiss up until at least great-grandparent level" (yes, yes, the percentages don't work out if you are going to nit-pick but you get what I mean, right?) variant that some more right-wing and less forward thinking people like to call "echte Eidgenossen".

My experience with this type of Swiss is the following (and of course this may just be my particular experience, having lived in and around Zurich most of my life, feel free to disagree): what they say/promise is always done, they hate people who are full of hot air, they are reliable and punctual, they feel almost physically uncomfortable when people break rules (whether actual laws or just courtesy), their sense of humor tends to be more subtle/quirky and less slapstick, they are excellent at just staying quiet and thinking their own thoughts in situations where others go out guns blazing, they hate confrontation and they expect their friends to have their lives together as they WILL help you out right away with no questions asked if you are in real trouble but feel that you should do your best to avoid getting into trouble in the first place.

These people are also typically involved in various activities/ clubs/ charities/ volunteer work duties (joining a local club or the voluntary fire brigade if applicable is THE best way to fit in and find local friends), or are doing further training or education or work very long hours, so getting together has to be planned in advance and flaking is massively frowned upon. On the upside, they understand being too busy to have the constant chatter and connection type of friendship. All in all, the "real" Swiss friends I have are pretty damn awesome, I feel they are "proper adults" whose lives may not be super exciting but they are content, they encourage working hard and staying humble, and I know I can rely on them 100%. Interestingly enough, every family seems to have that one rebel who just can't be done with all these expectations, rules and pressures and does something mad like emigrate and open a surf shack or ends up being the "project" of the extended family.

BUT - if you take friendships as seriously as these guys do, then there isn't room for an infinite amount of friends and it takes time to build these friendships. Many people are friends with folks they have known since they are 5 years old or who they went to school with. You can't just squander your limited time and resources on any random who strikes up a conversation with you on the bus. I find that "thinking about what happens after what is happening now" is a common approach and if the potential outcome is undesirable, the now gets cut off pretty quickly or even prevented altogether - it's just more efficient that way. This is something that I find a shame, even though I do it myself too. When I am busy and stressed, I find dealing with other people tiring, so I just try to stop anyone from talking to me in the first place.

So, TL;DNR: The barrier you may notice in your day to day interactions (because it is frequently very much there) is not really arrogance or unfriendliness, it's just a desire to be left in peace or avoid further impositions on one's time. While this CAN be down to how you are coming across, it often has nothing to do with you at all. The world does not revolve around you, you know?
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  #877  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:05
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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There you have it: Stop moaning about the Swiss. The world is a nasty place. Full stop.
You'd think that in the complaints corner of the English forum Switzerland you could.. i dunno.. complain about life in Switzerland in English. Can we make a subsection of the forum just for circlejerking about how great this country is so the salty EF "legends" can be contained?
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  #878  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:09
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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You'd think that in the complaints corner of the English forum Switzerland you could.. i dunno.. complain about life in Switzerland in English. Can we make a subsection of the forum just for circlejerking about how great this country is so the salty EF "legends" can be contained?
it's sad that you waste your valuable life in such an unfriendly country. Life is short and precious. Spend it with people & cultures, in countries that like you the way you like them. Seriously.
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  #879  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:10
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

I try, really hard, to keep positive in this country - but it's a big energy drain. Anywhere else i've ever lived or traveled to or through, it's effortless.

so many little anecdotes, of things and attitudes that would only happen in CH...

A few days ago I got on my bike to go to work. Up ahead on the bike path were a few dog walkers (not paid dog walkers, mind, but a couple who walks their dogs), who i 'know' by face and vice versa, as they walk by our place twice a day. I was already running a little late, but this being Switzerland, I decided to pull off to the side and let them walk by so as not to disturb them by riding by quickly. I thought I was being polite and courteous, maybe even starting to integrate..

They passed by. I gave the standard 'gruetzi mittenand', and sort of expected a 'gruetzi, danke' in return. Instead I got yelled at: 'Warum isch dies Veloliecht so hell?' (Why is your bike light so bright?)

Some people are just never pleased, more so in Switzerland.
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  #880  
Old 08.12.2016, 13:16
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Re: 9 months in Switzerland - a honest report.

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It took you 10 years to feel "welcome" in the country. That should speak volumes.

There are many foreigners who feel unwelcome here, myself among them.. but when we try to voice our opinions and concerns there's an enormous backlash, as if what we are uttering blasphemy. Even as a white, well-educated, well-off, married, decently attractive American, people here are still cold, distant and generally unpleasant (I have many anecdotes to support this over the years I've lived here if anyone cares to hear them).

The reality is: Switzerland is not known for its welcoming nature or its hospitality The Swiss are not known for their warmth, open-mindedness, wit or charm. The biggest sacrifice one has to make to live here is in the social dimension. Even if you speak all of the official languages, are well-educated, hard-working and so forth and so on, you will still not be accepted.

My experience? Learn the specific regional, bastardized flavor of German (but still pretend Schwiiizertüüüütsch is an actual language, and one that becomes more regal with every special-snowflake hard guttural CHHHHHKKKK clearing of the throat), do exactly what every Swiss person tells you to (as if they were your mother/father), be completely neurotic about every detail and subservient to every Swiss person you meet... and you'll get along great.

*Addendum: none of the above applies if you are rich. The Swiss will smile and nod and wipe your ass no matter how many rules you break as long as you are shooting money from every orifice.
You do know that Zurich is a little strange bubble and does not represent Switzerland as a whole, right?
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