Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 16.02.2017, 09:36
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
What is it they say about Karma?

You have 2 choices:
1) Pay up, chalk it up to experience and move on
2) Don't pay up, go through the fun and games of betreibung, rechtsvorschlag and court

Either way you (or your wife) were stung by not knowing enough of the language - or for simply not putting the phone down.

As for Autoscout - as per their T&Cs - there are no refunds. However, I have raised a question to them on why their T&Cs say that but they offer a "Sale or your money back" option!
Not sure why AutoScout24 replied no refunds, as I didn't ask them for a refund. I just told them that ACB was scraping data and photos off their site and that they might want to look into that more.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 16.02.2017, 09:39
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
What is it they say about Karma?

You have 2 choices:
1) Pay up, chalk it up to experience and move on
2) Don't pay up, go through the fun and games of betreibung, rechtsvorschlag and court

Either way you (or your wife) were stung by not knowing enough of the language - or for simply not putting the phone down.

As for Autoscout - as per their T&Cs - there are no refunds. However, I have raised a question to them on why their T&Cs say that but they offer a "Sale or your money back" option!
I am not sure why AutoScout24 mentioned no refunds in their reply as all I told them was that they might want to look into the fact that ACB is consistently scraping data and photos off their site then harassing people to pay them which breaks their AGB. I don't expect a refund from AutoScout24.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 16.02.2017, 09:40
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,512
Groaned at 980 Times in 689 Posts
Thanked 17,521 Times in 6,867 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
Not sure why AutoScout24 replied no refunds, as I didn't ask them for a refund. I just told them that ACB was scraping data and photos off their site and that they might want to look into that more.
What would they look into? Autoscout scams are a penny a dozen and anyone can cope the photos on their site. They are hardly going to commit resources to chasing down every occurrence of this and taking legal action. It wouldn't make any sense.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 16.02.2017, 09:53
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
What would they look into? Autoscout scams are a penny a dozen and anyone can cope the photos on their site. They are hardly going to commit resources to chasing down every occurrence of this and taking legal action. It wouldn't make any sense.
I would agree if we were talking about individual incidents or individuals doing it. But when a company is consistently doing it, I cannot imagine it being that hard to launch an action against the company to get it closed down. A company that is listed in the Handelsregister and therefore perfectly easy to identify.

This Forum is becoming nowadays kind of weird. I posted something in the first place to:
1) get people's advice
2) inform others about this company so they can avoid such run-ins

Instead, all kinds of smart arses leave snarky comments that it would never happen to them, that my wife is naive etc, that it was probably because she didn't know the language (even though the poster has no idea if that is the case or not), that we deserved it because I in the past made a few cold calls under pressure from my employer etc etc. What happened to the good old days of EF when I joined when it was a bunch of expats helping each other out, and some nice friendly Swiss giving their advice based on better understanding the system and laws here. I guess all good things must come to an end.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank pauljanes1979 for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
What happened to the good old days of EF when I joined when it was a bunch of expats helping each other out, and some nice friendly Swiss giving their advice based on better understanding the system and laws here. I guess all good things must come to an end.
You are feeding these abusers and therefore giving them strength by ignorance and an excessive lack of due care.

having said that they are not great either, preying on people acting dumb is not a great quality, in my opinion.

You can complain there:
https://www.reklamation.ch/complaint.php

PS: Nothing will come out of it, but it shares the experience.



PS2: stop whining, your situation is pure evidence that something really stupid have been committed. Do you expect "virtual sympathy"?
You've been reminded in a unpleasant yet legitimate way. Learn from your mistakes, accept the comments and advice (yes, some were given, open your eyes!) and move on!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
This user groans at CorsebouTheReturn for this post:
  #26  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
You are feeding these abusers and therefore giving them strength by ignorance and an excessive lack of due care.

having said that they are not great either, preying on people acting dumb is not a great quality, in my opinion.

You can complain there:
https://www.reklamation.ch/complaint.php

PS: Nothing will come out of it, but it shares the experience.
You are one of them too though based on your response, but nice try at subtlety. And remember I did nothing, I was not the victim, and attacking someone's spouse is deplorable. Just as it would be someone's child. Or someone's parents. These kind of things don't happen face to face, but its all too easy for people to poke fun from behind a keyboard these days. It takes courage to say things to people's faces but none to do it from behind a keyboard.

EF has gone downhill as of late.

And I hope you are the victim of a crime at some point from a moment of letting your guard down. And how can I look for sympathy when I was not the victim? For me its clear - the company isn't receiving a penny from me nor my wife.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:17
dodgyken's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Democratic Republic Kenistan
Posts: 10,690
Groaned at 281 Times in 232 Posts
Thanked 19,403 Times in 7,402 Posts
dodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond reputedodgyken has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
You are one of them too though based on your response, but nice try at subtlety. And remember I did nothing, I was not the victim, and attacking someone's spouse is deplorable. Just as it would be someone's child. Or someone's parents. These kind of things don't happen face to face, but its all too easy for people to poke fun from behind a keyboard these days. It takes courage to say things to people's faces but none to do it from behind a keyboard.

EF has gone downhill as of late.
According to the whiners EF started going downhill once the number of members became greater than 12

Ultimately you (or your wife) did something a bit dumb (staying on the line with a cold caller) and you are now being stung for it.

We have now all learned from your experience - so thank you. But using the groan button like a child after 2l of Coca-Cola isn't going to win you any sympathy.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dodgyken for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:17
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,300
Groaned at 97 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 18,792 Times in 8,336 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Hello CorsebouTheReturn are you here?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:21
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,901
Groaned at 285 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 17,673 Times in 6,209 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

the funny thing about http://www.autocomputerboerse.ch/ is that they offer a service for 149 CHF to post an ad on 7 free websites.
very clever. very useless.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:25
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
the funny thing about http://www.autocomputerboerse.ch/ is that they offer a service for 149 CHF to post an ad on 7 free websites.
very clever. very useless.
Exactly, and this is the reply they sent when I told them just that:

On 13 Feb 2017, at 22:41, "acb@autocomputerboerse.ch"
<acb@autocomputerboerse.ch> wrote:




you have to inform yourself better. Here the offer in auto-online:

https://www.auto-online.ch/en/Prices/

and we sell the offer best-place, means your car is always on the
beginning of the list. When you advertise in carweb with photos you pay Fr.
30.-- and in fahrzeugnet private people don't have the possibility to
advertise, it is normally reserved for garages. Before fahrzeugnet asked Fr.
39.-- for 2 months.





you pay The costs of the advertisements when you ad
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
You are one of them too though based on your response, but nice try at subtlety. And remember I did nothing, I was not the victim, and attacking someone's spouse is deplorable. Just as it would be someone's child. Or someone's parents. These kind of things don't happen face to face, but its all too easy for people to poke fun from behind a keyboard these days. It takes courage to say things to people's faces but none to do it from behind a keyboard.

EF has gone downhill as of late.

And I hope you are the victim of a crime at some point from a moment of letting your guard down. And how can I look for sympathy when I was not the victim? For me its clear - the company isn't receiving a penny from me nor my wife.
Yes you groaned me stupidly. You are no longer innocent. Worse, you also wished me negative outcome.

Good luck with dealing with the shitty situation you are in, there's a saying about "not biting the hand that is feeding you". Shame I would know what to do as option 3, I'd keep it for my miserable self.

PS:No one attacked your spouse, but your spouse alleged behavior.
A little more subtle.

PS2: believe it or not, I say the same face to face to everyone around me. They learned quickly to take the useful information and develop a thicker skin for the rest.

PS3: I wish to be victim of a crime too, I absolutely love the fight, hate losing, enjoy learning and discovering the law. Oh and sometimes I lost, painful but I did not seek "virtual sympathy" on a public forum, and I certainly did not complain about others not helping me or being apparently nasty.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
Hello CorsebouTheReturn are you here?
No.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank CorsebouTheReturn for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:41
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 108
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 52 Times in 29 Posts
pauljanes1979 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
Yes you groaned me stupidly. You are no longer innocent. Worse, you also wished me negative outcome.

Good luck with dealing with the shitty situation you are in, there's a saying about "not biting the hand that is feeding you". Shame I would know what to do as option 3, I'd keep it for my miserable self.

PS:No one attacked your spouse, but your spouse alleged behavior.
A little more subtle.

PS2: believe it or not, I say the same face to face to everyone around me. They learned quickly to take the useful information and develop a thicker skin for the rest.

PS3: I wish to be victim of a crime too, I absolutely love the fight, hate losing, enjoy learning and discovering the law. Oh and sometimes I lost, painful but I did not seek "virtual sympathy" on a public forum, and I certainly did not complain about others not helping me or being apparently nasty.
Only a small crime. I wouldn't want anything really bad to happen. Perhaps just some weirdo freak stealing a pair of your knickers from the washing line to sniff in his spare time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pauljanes1979 for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
Perhaps just some weirdo freak stealing a pair of your knickers from the washing line to sniff in his spare time.
Feel free to do whatever you want in your spare time.
I would not degrade myself to do such act.
And whoever can try anything- better not been caught though, as said I'm a bad loser.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 16.02.2017, 10:58
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,300
Groaned at 97 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 18,792 Times in 8,336 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
Quote:
View Post
Hello CorsebouTheReturn, we have this offer for just CHF 150 per month, were we will send you once a year a print out of your Englishforum profile. If you are Not interested please answer with a clear and sound Yes. Other wise will setup you for the service and send you the bills. I repeat, are you not interested in our offer?
No.
An old scam is to trick people to answer with 'Yes' on the phone to some unsuspecting and potential harmless questions. Afterwards they will send you a bill for some bogus services. If you object they will present "evidence" in form of voice recordings where the re-cut the recordings, insert question never asked, and use your yes as your acknowledgment for the contract.

It seems to make the round at the moment in Canada.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02..._14678840.html

But also in Europe:
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...h-3622925.html

The later link, sorry in German, has another new trick. You hang up? We bill you for hanging up!
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 16.02.2017, 11:02
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,300
Groaned at 97 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 18,792 Times in 8,336 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

@pauljanes1979

As soon as I got the bill I would have either
a) Would have not replied or responded at all and just waited and see what will happen.
or b) send them a hefty bill for copy and usage right infringement of my photos.

But, know. Have fun with your new found pen palls.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 16.02.2017, 11:15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 414
Groaned at 15 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 154 Times in 95 Posts
Harrie Nak has earned some respectHarrie Nak has earned some respect
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Wer bei einem Anruf Ja sagt, wird reingelegt
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 16.02.2017, 11:39
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
I would agree if we were talking about individual incidents or individuals doing it. But when a company is consistently doing it, I cannot imagine it being that hard to launch an action against the company to get it closed down. A company that is listed in the Handelsregister and therefore perfectly easy to identify.

This Forum is becoming nowadays kind of weird. I posted something in the first place to:
1) get people's advice
2) inform others about this company so they can avoid such run-ins

Instead, all kinds of smart arses leave snarky comments that it would never happen to them, that my wife is naive etc, that it was probably because she didn't know the language (even though the poster has no idea if that is the case or not), that we deserved it because I in the past made a few cold calls under pressure from my employer etc etc. What happened to the good old days of EF when I joined when it was a bunch of expats helping each other out, and some nice friendly Swiss giving their advice based on better understanding the system and laws here. I guess all good things must come to an end.
Don't worry about it. A similar thing happened to us last year when we sold our car. Guy called my missus with the same offer (which TBF, doesn't sound that bad). She said she wasn't sure and would ask me and they could call back the following day.

We decided wasn't worth it. When the guy called back and was told we wasn't interested he became a complete arsehole on the phone. Nothing further happened as you've described, but I do understand the problem.

Take the Betreibung, and challenge it. I'd rather have that on my record than see a penny go to these crooks.

Quote:
View Post
Either way you (or your wife) were stung by not knowing enough of the language
My other half is a native speaker so I doubt language is the issue.

p.s. don't take Richdog personally. He's like that to everyone

p.p.s. It could be worse, you could have sold your car on here and taken even flak
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 16.02.2017, 11:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,512
Groaned at 980 Times in 689 Posts
Thanked 17,521 Times in 6,867 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

Quote:
View Post
p.s. don't take Richdog personally. He's like that to everyone

p.p.s. It could be worse, you could have sold your car on here and taken even flak
Both true.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 16.02.2017, 12:04
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,059
Groaned at 349 Times in 283 Posts
Thanked 10,420 Times in 5,506 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Company phones you up then sends bill saying you concluded a contract with them o

The mail address is by definiton public, it would be useless otherwise. Telling someone your mail details, snail or electronic, is perfectly fine and doesn't prove anything.

OP, stop talking to that company, whether by phone, mail, or whatever - every reply may give them supportive evidence. Just ignore them, hang up immediately when they phone. If they indeed file a Betreibung you receive a registered letter you need to sign for. On the back of that form there's an additional preprinted form to raise Rechtsvorschlag, simply sign there too.

By raising Rechtsvorschlag you say "Really? Show me your proof", which they can't so this should be the end of the story.

And yes, Richdog is a bit of a "special" person.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
car sales, fraudster




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Threaten by company on legal action against posting on EF my bad experience with them Dariush Complaints corner 108 11.11.2015 17:08
You're an Atheist - then you're mentally ill Medea Fleecestealer International affairs/politics 62 26.06.2014 11:04
Unemployment benefit if you set up our own company LUNAHK Employment 5 28.03.2011 19:06
What a country.. on benefit ? then you can't have a job... ipoddle Permits/visas/government 7 18.03.2011 11:19
Baby items you wish you had brought with you to Switzerland? Switzerland2009 Family matters/health 45 12.03.2009 11:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0