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  #201  
Old 13.05.2019, 18:26
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Big question of course is why Discovery necroed a 2 year old thread?
Maybe Discovery, too, is sick and tired of languages.
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  #202  
Old 13.05.2019, 18:47
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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It is a foreign language to them. Not alone that but it one that they are supposed to be really good at, as even YOU seem to expect. Which is one of the reason why they suggest English to you, since it means that mistakes are more acceptable. I don't really expect you to appreciate this, given your posting history on this and similar topics - you really need to learn to see it not just from your side.
The majority speak acceptable German already. They learn it from early school days. And how should I learn German other than speaking it.! They dont need to learn German! I do.Maybe you fail to comprehend this. So stay with your broken German.
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Old 13.05.2019, 19:07
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Big question of course is why Discovery necroed a 2 year old thread?
Your suggestion? Delete all threads after 2 years!
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  #204  
Old 13.05.2019, 20:49
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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The majority speak acceptable German already. They learn it from early school days. And how should I learn German other than speaking it.! They dont need to learn German! I do.Maybe you fail to comprehend this. So stay with your broken German.
You might just need to accept that you're an idiot.
Take that from your previous posts in addition.
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  #205  
Old 13.05.2019, 22:32
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I was just speaking to my landlady this morning. We were talking about languages and she told me how a German shop assistant had asked her to speak Schrift Deutsch the other day. She was quite put off by it and wanted to tell the person that they should learn to understand Swiss German. She had also been in a bad mood that day and admitted that if had been any other time, she would have gladly complied.

Moral of the story?

Yes, even Schriftdeutsch is a "foreign" language for the Swiss when it comes to speaking. Reading and writing, however, is in standard German. (although the Swiss whatsapp in Swiss German nowadays.)

Like Omtatsat, my feathers get ruffled when a Swiss starts speaking to me in high German, or even worse, in English. I speak fluent Swiss German (with a slight accent) and prefer to converse in the Swiss language.
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Old 14.05.2019, 08:59
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Honest question - is high German taught in schools?

The reason I ask is (as you know from another thread), I'm studying German.
The organisation my employer picks is teaching Swiss German, whereby they have high German for 90% - but then some words are not "german" (e.g. poulet, gipfeli, gruezi, etc).

The reasoning I was given was that when you speak high German to a client, they get flashbacks to their school years...
Yes. German-speaking Swiss first learn dialect from their parents - their mother tongue. When the children go to school they are taught to read, write and speak in High German.

This will vary depending on the language the parents speak, but as a general rule High German is a foreign language. My partner who was born and brought up in Zurich states this incessantly every day...

Last edited by AbFab; 14.05.2019 at 09:58.
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Old 14.05.2019, 09:17
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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The majority speak acceptable German already. They learn it from early school days. And how should I learn German other than speaking it.! They dont need to learn German! I do.Maybe you fail to comprehend this. So stay with your broken German.
It is not always about you!
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  #208  
Old 14.05.2019, 09:23
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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I was just speaking to my landlady this morning. We were talking about languages and she told me how a German shop assistant had asked her to speak Schrift Deutsch the other day. She was quite put off by it and wanted to tell the person that they should learn to understand Swiss German. She had also been in a bad mood that day and admitted that if had been any other time, she would have gladly complied.

Moral of the story?

Yes, even Schriftdeutsch is a "foreign" language for the Swiss when it comes to speaking. Reading and writing, however, is in standard German. (although the Swiss whatsapp in Swiss German nowadays.)

Like Omtatsat, my feathers get ruffled when a Swiss starts speaking to me in high German, or even worse, in English. I speak fluent Swiss German (with a slight accent) and prefer to converse in the Swiss language.
Wrong. I dont get upset when a Swiss starts speaking in high German. You have misunderstood. They can speak whatever they want. But when they ask me whether I would prefer to speak in English I say no and that Deutsch is OK for me.They find no problem with that . Some would love to practice their English on me. They can if they want. But the answers they get will be in Deutsch
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  #209  
Old 14.05.2019, 11:43
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Wrong. I dont get upset when a Swiss starts speaking in high German. You have misunderstood. They can speak whatever they want. But when they ask me whether I would prefer to speak in English I say no and that Deutsch is OK for me.They find no problem with that . Some would love to practice their English on me. They can if they want. But the answers they get will be in Deutsch
I think this is a reasonable approach.
One possible explanation for swiss people being put off by that:
As a child in school you are trained to answer in german as soon as you hear german. This reflex stick for a long time with me and I had to actively avoid it when I've started working in basel and german collegues asked me to speak swiss german to them. It took quite some time. So if you speak german to swiss, some of them might feel obliged to answer in german. Not your problem ofc, but it can explain their behaviour.

I managed the transition a bit too well and sometimes when I'm in Germany I forgot to switch to german. No problem in Lörrach, but in Köln or Hamburg I get quite funny looks
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  #210  
Old 14.05.2019, 12:10
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Big question of course is why Discovery necroed a 2 year old thread?
Had me happy for a moment, thinking AdrianLondon was back. And then I saw the date.
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  #211  
Old 14.05.2019, 12:15
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Big question of course is why Discovery necroed a 2 year old thread?
If I've had anything pounded into my head on this board over the years, it is to always check for previous posts before creating a new post.....so seems right to me to reanimate this thread.
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  #212  
Old 14.05.2019, 13:21
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Honest question - is high German taught in schools?
Swiss Standard German is.

There are many more types of difference between Swiss and German Standard German than just vocabulary. The way words are built (grillieren vs grillen), orthography, sentence structure, usage of prepositions, and grammatical case can differ. Even the alphabet is different as there's no ß (called Eszet) in Swiss Standard German.

As a student of German you may want to be aware of the difference between the colloquial and the linguistic meaning of Hochdeutsch, perhaps look them up.
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Old 14.05.2019, 15:15
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Wrong. I dont get upset when a Swiss starts speaking in high German. You have misunderstood. They can speak whatever they want. But when they ask me whether I would prefer to speak in English I say no and that Deutsch is OK for me.They find no problem with that . Some would love to practice their English on me. They can if they want. But the answers they get will be in Deutsch
Just a note: you've validated my suspicion on your real identity. Can't resist sharing your real language preferences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQaBWgZkcHc
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  #214  
Old 14.05.2019, 15:29
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Just a note: you've validated my suspicion on your real identity. Can't resist sharing your real language preferences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQaBWgZkcHc
He is a really blessed parrot. Just to hear the name Omtatsat is a blessing in itself!
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Old 14.05.2019, 16:17
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Sorry! noting to do with the Thread: I just realized how many, good people, Efer we lost ,sad
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Old 17.05.2019, 19:00
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I take " Bruschtwarze" over "Runny nose" anytime

And what way to pronounce "Amy Klobuchard"-- Klo bouchard or Klob ouch ard ?

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  #217  
Old 14.06.2019, 16:46
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Just had a quick read through the thread. I can understand the frustration but the extent of it surprises me.

I'm preparing for a B2 exam soon and feel reasonably confident. I try to study the grammar at a meta level, not just learn it rote. Articles really should not be a big deal, but for native English speakers I get why they might be, but they certainly don't deserve the level of attention they are getting.

The kids see me and the other half studying, and when some German / Swiss friends come round, German / Swiss German is what we speak.

Kids have plenty of play dates with the locals too. Kids haven't needed any additional German class thankfully and Kindergarten teachers have no concerns

Ultimately, I think you have to embrace it and learn the language with a smile on your face. Constantly being frustrated and angry about articles will do you no favours.
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  #218  
Old 14.06.2019, 21:43
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Just had a quick read through the thread. I can understand the frustration but the extent of it surprises me.
...
Ultimately, I think you have to embrace it and learn the language with a smile on your face. Constantly being frustrated and angry about articles will do you no favours.
Thank you. I'm with you, and keep saying: "Just get in with it and put in the work it takes to learn the local language."

I think you're right about the emotional effect of one's attitude.

It seems to be hardest for those who resent having to learn a language (it's just not fair! English should suffice!), who blame their living in another language zone on someone else (you dragged me over here). And those who imagine that they ought to have an excellent command immediately, so errors aren't allowed.

I do feel sorry, too, for those who are extremely busy (so many project deadlines/medical appointments I can hardly find a moment to breathe) and for those who have thus far had the misfortune of being truly monolingual.

Those who embrace the opportunity, on the other hand, and those who've experienced a situation in which knowledge of the local language made a real difference, seem to have a booster, helping them to progress reasonably quickly.
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  #219  
Old 15.06.2019, 12:01
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Ultimately, I think you have to embrace it and learn the language with a smile on your face. Constantly being frustrated and angry about articles will do you no favours.
Hehe, the articles, the declension of nouns and adjectives...this is what I like most about German. Rules, grammar. I always found English a bit odd from certain points of view..that is not to say I don't like it because I really do. But it's a bit of a hit-and-miss situation with this language, as far as I'm concerned.
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  #220  
Old 15.06.2019, 12:39
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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I'm preparing for a B2 exam soon and feel reasonably confident. I try to study the grammar at a meta level, not just learn it rote. Articles really should not be a big deal, but for native English speakers I get why they might be, but they certainly don't deserve the level of attention they are getting.
I think everyone will have aspects of the language that they fully embrace and others that put the fear of god into them. I know I have one that gives me the heebeegeebees every time it's mentioned.

I also believe there might be, or will soon be a generational difference in how native English speakers approach learning German. Just as an example...I have two English teachers in my family. One teaches at a well respected English university, the other teaches from home and, to my mind, speaks a very poor standard of English herself so I don't know how the hell she gets away with taking money for teaching it.

The former keeps me on my toes in conversation because she is so precise in her spoken grammar. With the later, I got on the wrong side of her (very easily done) because she's adopted using 'more' too much, e.g. more better, more easier, etc...which has become 'a thing' in the UK and really grates on my nerves. I dared to ask if she teaches her students the same because it's not grammatically correct. She did and took great exception to me asking. A few days later, she conceded that this was indeed, poor grammar, and that's the thing... To me, English grammar has become looser over the last 20yrs or so, and I feel that will be detrimental to people hoping to learn a more structured language.

Right, back to my Hausaufgabe

Just as an aside, which aspects of German do people enjoy and which do they have problems with? I love Konjunctiv II, Perfekt, Partizip II and TEKAMOLO but Präteritum always puts me on the back foot.
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