Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 08.04.2017, 00:21
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Zurich East
Posts: 775
Groaned at 65 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 928 Times in 466 Posts
YuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond reputeYuropFlyer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Esperanto?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank YuropFlyer for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 08.04.2017, 01:21
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,418
Groaned at 135 Times in 114 Posts
Thanked 10,083 Times in 5,368 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

We all settle on Chinese. Would that work for OP?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 08.04.2017, 07:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: zürich
Posts: 3,193
Groaned at 105 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 3,948 Times in 1,620 Posts
i-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond reputei-b-deborah has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I give you Brustwartzen.
Quote:
View Post

Also, German is a hideous language (schleimhaut? schammlippe? kunterbunt? ).
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank i-b-deborah for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 08.04.2017, 07:52
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 3,660
Groaned at 63 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 3,299 Times in 1,611 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

If you ALL hate it so much, why are you staying here? Life is too short.

Don't get me wrong, I feel your language pain, I am rubbish. However, I blame myself for being useless, not the Swiss and Switzerland.
https://www.englishforum.ch/language...epression.html

Since the above thread, I have discovered these books https://www.englishforum.ch/language...-learning.html and my German has improved a lot. Learning vocab in a story, helps me remember, and it doesn't feel like studying.

I think it's very strange that after two years in Kindergarten your daughter isn't fluent in Swiss German. I think you need to investigate why.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 08.04.2017, 08:02
Spinal's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 789
Groaned at 6 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 657 Times in 304 Posts
Spinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputation
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I lived in Frankfurt for a year, and the total oh my German after that was the ability to say "I don't want another injection"... (I stayed in a hospital).

It's a tough language to learn, I'm starting again now and am a bit worried. TBH, my biggest worry isn't learning a new language, it's that no matter how much I study I don't think I'll ever be able to stand in front of 100-200 people and give a presentation in German at a level I would be happy with... which is something I do in English. Secondly, looking at my English colleagues who have been here a while, their English is starting to suffer...

I've opted to start reading books in English in a futile attempt to retain my vocabulary there... let's see...

A universal language would be nice... don't care what is chosen, English, Mandarin, simplified chinese... American... meh... just pick one

m.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Spinal for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 08.04.2017, 09:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geneva
Posts: 3,545
Groaned at 30 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 4,326 Times in 1,663 Posts
McTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond reputeMcTAVGE has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
View Post
I apologize in advance if this is posted in the wrong place. I've never posted anything like this before, but please interpret this more as a cry for help than a desire to lash out at people. The only people who've had a fraction of this directed at them won't talk to me anymore.

I first left the USA and arrived in Switzerland 2 years ago. I've been here ever since, and this post has been stewing in the back of my head for nearly that whole time. Now that everyone in my family seems to be suffering from the same problems, I think it's finally time for me to vent my anger and frustration in the hopes that someone can tell me what the heck I can do about it.

Please be warned that I'm not going to filter my thoughts at all, so if you don't have the patience to hear a bigot rant and rave, this is probably a good time to move onto another thread.

Ok here we go...

I hate German. I didn't realize how much I hated it until I actually had to start speaking and listening to it all of the time. Rearranging words in my head until a sentence makes absolutely no sense is absolutely exhausting. To top that off, you then have to know these god-awful articles for every. blasted. word. in the universe. If you don't, then you can't function.
If that weren't bad enough, to actually function here, you have to also at least be able to comprehend Swiss German, no matter how much German you've mastered. I am really bad with hearing slurred, muttered, or drawn out speech, and that pretty much defines Swiss German to a tee. I've now been around my work colleagues for 2 years straight, and I still can't understand the Swiss ones who choose to speak Swiss German (or is it an attempt at High German with a Swiss accent? I have no idea). When I mean understand, I mean I don't comprehend a single syllable that comes out. Contrast that to my colleague who's from Hamburg, and I understand about 50% of what he says (so long as his sentences don't have 4 verbs piled up at the end, which actually means I understand 25% of what he says)

So quit whining and learn more German, right? I did and have struggled to learn High German for nearly 3 years now, and my last encounter with a tutor (which I really didn't enjoy as usual because I'm an extreme introvert, and all they do is force you to speak something you don't know well while judging you) said that my German is A2. I was really surprised that despite being worked like an immigrant dog and having no time to sleep, let alone drill German words the length of a runway, that my German would ever improve.

So I should be happy about this and strike up conversations with random Swiss, right? Wrong. A Dutch guy once asked me what languages I heard during my tram commute. I think he was expecting me to say German. Instead the answer was: Swiss German, Spanish, French, Japanese, Chinese, Portugese, Russian, and other Eastern European languages that I can't identify. Then of course about as often as actual High German you get to hear...

ENGLISH.

Yes, this blasted "universal" language that no one natively speaks and will never comfortably speak, because it's so much easier to stick to your village tongue that is (and this is a direct quote from my Swiss landlady about Swiss German) "a strange language that only, like, 2 people speak."
I flew back to America, and everyone on the plane was talking to each other, never thinking for a second that everyone around them wouldn't understand every word, every nuance. On my short European flights, everything is generally as silent as a tomb, and I get the strong impression from all of the gesturing that airline passengers make it's because no one knows what language everyone else speaks, and they're afraid of not being understood. I know I sure as hell am. This difference in being able to connect and/or communicate is absolutely horribly emotionally traumatizing.

I actually forgot about this for a while and thought people are supposed to suffer like this, where a large portion of the people around you are not reachable, until I went back to America and/or the UK, and everyone everywhere understands you. Suddenly jokes work again, innuendoes aren't missed, and you can express just about anything to just about anyone around you. Imagine that!

I just don't understand how people can live with not being able to communicate like this! If becoming a master of High German were all that's required, then I'd be far far more motivated than I am, but it's simply not going to solve my problem.

My daughter has now been to 2 years of Swiss kindergarten, has had supplemental German lessons, and a German tutor, and she is becoming more unhappy over time, saying that despite all of the High German she's learned, she can't understand anyone and no one wants to play with her. So much for "children are like sponges with languages." Unlike those jerks, I fully understand and sympathize with what my child is going through. I just don't understand how the Russian and Pakistani kids in her class managed to integrate and make friends in months while my daughter is still alone after 2 years.

My wife is doing her second intensive German course, and she's also quite miserable, saying that once she passes her B1 exam, she's never going to do anymore, because her English is starting to get worse and she doesn't have the time/energy to memorize anymore vocabulary with a tight-assed German lording over her with terrible English about how her German is wrong. Considering how it's not really been helping us make friends or even understand anything going on around us up to this point, I can't say I blame her for not wanting to suffer any longer than necessary.

In case you couldn't tell, I don't really like languages. I just want to master a single language and have that be the one I need to use. Everyone I know who knows a lot of languages here has pretty bad English to the point where they can't fully express themselves and misunderstand things they really shouldn't. I don't want that to be me. I worked very long and hard to make my English this good. No other language is worth losing that.

Learning languages is also really, really not fun. There's nothing fun about it at all. The only people I know who truly disagree with that statement love chatting people up and wasting their time running their mouths all day long. That's definitely the opposite of me. I like watching movies and playing video games, and I've had the unpleasant honor of seeing how horrible Germans are at acting and voice acting (and how the dubbing is impossibly fast when it's not German). It makes me appreciate American+English acting way, way more than I ever did before. Their sad attempt at art can take a running jump for all I care. Makes me want to learn French instead so that I can watch/play something halfway decent.

At this point, I'm far more interested in learning Esperanto, since then I wouldn't be a hypocrite about wanting people to understand each other, and I'd probably be fluent in less than a fourth of the time I've already burned on German. I went to a school seminar on how children should learn, and it basically involved 20 minutes of German vocab memorizing everyday for over a decade. That's not surprising, because that's probably not even as much English vocabulary that I know. I am really not keen on the idea of burning that much time on another language that's not anywhere near universal or useful.

Before you get upset and tell me to just leave, it's worth stating that I really do like Switzerland itself. At least, everything about it that doesn't involve people (which is a lot, considering how people just look straight through you, don't talk to you, and keep their physical distance from you like you're a leper) is really amazingly great. The crushing loneliness is...well...crushing, but I'd still trade this lonely place over the noisy, over-bearing, unsafe chaos of America that spawned me.

I just wish this place didn't have such a ridiculously large barrier to connecting to the people around you. Please dear god everyone just go learn Esperanto. If you do, I will! It'll be the last second language we ever have to learn, so then we can take the time to master it and express anything we want with perfect clarity. Life is so much more than languages, I want to spend my life living it, not wasting time learning things I'm not really interested in. (Yes, I studied Spanish for 6 years and Japanese for 3 years. Despite going to those countries, I've never really had to use them because I speak, you know, a more universal language by default. Do I want to have that happen with German as well? Hell no, I've wasted enough of my life already.)

Someone throw me a bone here, what the heck am I missing about this god awful situation. Since German isn't spoken here, should I just skip it and somehow learn Swiss German? (Is that even possible for someone who can't understand slurred speech?) No, what am I saying, Swiss German still isn't enough. I want to connect with more than just half of a country the size of Virginia! That would bottle me up into such a small space. ARRRRRGGGGG.

Maybe we should just get used to being alone. Sometimes it's a bittersweet comfort, knowing that you can be unhappy and no one will judge you for it because they don't understand you.


" I am really bad with hearing slurred, muttered, or drawn out speech". And you're American? Have you been to Texas?

Come and visit us in Scotland, where proper English is spoken. You'll have no problem of communication whatsoever and I advise you to start with Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen for that comfort feeling...

Quote:
View Post
" I am really bad with hearing slurred, muttered, or drawn out speech". And you're American? Have you been to Texas?
And one particular President seems to be mastering this kind of speech pretty well!
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank McTAVGE for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 08.04.2017, 09:49
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,711
Groaned at 126 Times in 117 Posts
Thanked 25,200 Times in 9,705 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Whatever level you're at, if you come from a steadfastly mono-lingual country like, say, the UK, there is still an element of cool when you go home to visit and friends and family are slightly impressed you have to carry out your day-to-day in another lingo.

Except when another friend comes home to visit who speaks his learned Spanish with a flourish and turns up the cool another sexy notch which blows my German out of the water.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 08.04.2017, 09:57
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
Now that everyone in my family seems to be suffering from the same problems,

... to actually function here, you have to also at least be able to comprehend Swiss German, no matter how much German you've mastered.

This difference in being able to connect and/or communicate is absolutely horribly emotionally traumatizing.

... until I went back to America and/or the UK, and everyone everywhere understands you. Suddenly jokes work again, innuendoes aren't missed, and you can express just about anything to just about anyone around you. Imagine that!

I just don't understand how people can live with not being able to communicate like this! If becoming a master of High German were all that's required, then I'd be far far more motivated than I am, but it's simply not going to solve my problem.

Learning languages is also really, really not fun. There's nothing fun about it at all. The only people I know who truly disagree with that statement love chatting people up and wasting their time running their mouths all day long. That's definitely the opposite of me.

The crushing loneliness is...well...crushing, but I'd still trade this lonely place over the noisy, over-bearing, unsafe chaos of America that spawned me.

Maybe we should just get used to being alone. Sometimes it's a bittersweet comfort, knowing that you can be unhappy and no one will judge you for it because they don't understand you.
Dear OP - You have my deepest sympathy. Honestly. I've been here for nearly fifty years. I speak Swiss German fluently and fast, and incorrectly. I mix various dialects when speaking and when writing German to anyone other than close friends who are non-English speaking, I get it checked by my Swiss husband as it may well be riddled with grammatical errors. (Sometimes I hit the jackpot and it is all correct!) I do my best but I sure don't break my heart over my shortcomings.
I really, truly know what you mean though. I don't miss England, I don't miss speaking English much, and don't do it very often - I write far more English than I speak as in Real Life I meet very few native English speakers.

But when I read this:
Quote:
View Post
I've been here for 13 years now and I've just reached B1(3)
It takes a real effort to be this thick but I just figure, if I'm going to do something badly for the rest of my life, I might as well be the worst I can be.
I'm really proud of my achievement.
which made me fall off my chair laughing, and then this conversation-killer reply
Quote:
View Post
LOL- great achievement- but perhaps not if you are looking for a job here
I literally bash my head on the wall. And please, non-Brits, don't ask me why.

Basically I suppose I learned Swiss German firstly because I am nosy and I want to know what people are saying about me and secondly because I was surrounded by non-English speakers and I like talking. And I, unlike the OP, enjoy learning languages.


PS. I know of a guy, Master's Degree in this and Master's Degree in that, multi-lingual and highly knowledgable in subjects I've never even heard of, who left a good, and VERY well-paid job in Switzerland as he, too, found the loneliness caused by an inability to express himself at his normal level in normal conversation so overwhelmingly depressing... he loved this country too, but it wasn't enough.
__________________
Longbyt
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 08.04.2017, 10:46
KRZ KRZ is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 48
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
KRZ has slipped a little
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Well, it's difficult to start a new language, but once we learn or even start to learn ..we see the difference in our lives...reading around and understanding things...that really motivates us to learn more. Go ahead and try at least for a few years before saying quit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank KRZ for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 08.04.2017, 11:13
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,418
Groaned at 135 Times in 114 Posts
Thanked 10,083 Times in 5,368 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
I give you Brustwartzen.
No need to make it worse by misspelling it though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 08.04.2017, 11:41
adrianlondon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 9,212
Groaned at 171 Times in 154 Posts
Thanked 25,643 Times in 6,892 Posts
adrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond reputeadrianlondon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
my biggest worry isn't learning a new language, it's that no matter how much I study I don't think I'll ever be able to stand in front of 100-200 people and give a presentation in German at a level I would be happy with... which is something I do in English.
When I went to the RAV and asked for German lessons to help me get a job, his response was "You'd need at least C1 to be fluent at your job and it'll take you too long to get to that level so best you don't even try. We won't pay for any courses and officially you're not allowed to do any during the working day". Nice to have my own thoughts given to me officially

He also made a sideways comment about even being C1 simply put me in the same bucket as Germans; the locals still would revert to Swiss German when relaxing and chatting.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank adrianlondon for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:19
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,279
Groaned at 115 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,375 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
My daughter has now been to 2 years of Swiss kindergarten, has had supplemental German lessons, and a German tutor, and she is becoming more unhappy over time, saying that despite all of the High German she's learned, she can't understand anyone and no one wants to play with her. So much for "children are like sponges with languages." Unlike those jerks, I fully understand and sympathize with what my child is going through. I just don't understand how the Russian and Pakistani kids in her class managed to integrate and make friends in months while my daughter is still alone after 2 years.
If you and your wife are giving off such negative vibes about learning German, you should not be at all surprised if it is rubbing of on her. Most kids just take it as part of kindergarten and get on with it, as you say about the Russian and Pakistani kids.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Zurich
Posts: 655
Groaned at 41 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 835 Times in 372 Posts
marischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond reputemarischi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Maybe she's not gifted in learning languages like her parents. And Jim's right about the bad vibe. Children want to please their parents.

And, maybe, maybe, she's just not a pleasant or interesting child. Kids in Kindergarten love to play with kids who have ideas. If they don't, they just let them stay in peace.

I've had kids in Kindergarten who spoke only their first language - not German - and had a blast playing with the other kids who couldn't exactly understand them. They were active and tried to communicate with all available means: gestic, mimic, sound...

Last edited by marischi; 08.04.2017 at 12:37.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marischi for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:26
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,231
Groaned at 105 Times in 80 Posts
Thanked 5,745 Times in 3,232 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

There are some good points mentioned that I would address again:

1. Harder you try to learn German, more your native tongue will suffer. In a process you are learning a lot of new words which will replace your native tongue words, grammar and order of words in sentences. This is a complete madness because eventually, when you listen to yourself and anylyze how you sound, you realize that your native tongue doesn't sound the same anymore.
2. You only discover the above when you come back home and your folks will see changes in your manner of speaking and accent. Of course they will meet you with round of applause admiring your ability of speaking another language, however bad that ability is sounding to native Swiss/German speakers in their land.
3. People don't correct your sentences here in Switzerland when you show willingness to integrate, speak their language. Only at German classes from RAV or other provider, they will do so.
4. People in general are rather more introvert here and chitchat is very uncommon with strangers. Therefore your chances to improve German are much lower in CH than e.g. US/UK where random talks on various topics are daily bread.
5. Despite I speak the language (after 9 years of being here) rather fluently on B1/B2 level (on which occasion get compliments from Swiss), I'm unable to give presentations and use it on the phone at workplace. Locals immediately will pick it up that I'm a foreigner and that signal alone already throws me back to use a sentence. "Please speak slowly or repeat it again. German is not my first language".
6. Been told at work that when it comes to business, they will talk to me in English to avoid any misunderstanding and help me to stay focused. Privately, I can use my poor German to take it to another level. That's fine, I'm ok with it. It's a Swiss company and speed they talk at is devastating, even for my substandard B2 level.
7. As we only speak English at home, I feel that we don't make enough effort to integrate given language barrier. The assumption in our household is to stay here for a while, get experience and financially independent in few years time. Learning a bit of Swiss dialect and German is just a bonus.

... from another ungrateful expat who needs the EF to escape from reality of daily life.
__________________
🎾That's what we do to help English speaking expats community in Switzerland:
General Information About Swiss Tennis
Tennis Lessons Summer Winter Seasons
🎾🎾Our charity organization to help unprivileged kids to realize their dreams:
FMTF Supports Tennis For Children in Southern Africa
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:29
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,279
Groaned at 115 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,375 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
Come and visit us in Scotland, where proper English is spoken. You'll have no problem of communication whatsoever and I advise you to start with Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen for that comfort feeling...
!
Ya sure! The only place I ever found speaking Gaelic to be useful on holidays!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:42
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,279
Groaned at 115 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,375 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
When I went to the RAV and asked for German lessons to help me get a job, his response was "You'd need at least C1 to be fluent at your job and it'll take you too long to get to that level so best you don't even try. We won't pay for any courses and officially you're not allowed to do any during the working day". Nice to have my own thoughts given to me officially
Sorry but it's not RAV's job to help you improve your German. You need C1/C2 to do a professional job in German and if you are not almost there already the RAV course is not going to get you there.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08.04.2017, 12:44
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 13,197
Groaned at 198 Times in 155 Posts
Thanked 15,524 Times in 7,895 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

OP - good post! Of course you can have one language, your pick! But don't expect to be understood by all, or when you need it the most.

If you change your mind, I grew up having languages of official political choice imposed on us (R, Ger). It is actually amazing that people can master languages they severely dislike, and people back home are still continuing using them and mastering them, even though there is little official need any longer. My Russian teacher was incredible, not perfect in Russian but a perfect teacher, so the language did become disassociated for me from the comm tool of our opressors. English was a game for us, too, esp. when we as kids figured out we could be better than our dad, and quite fast.

I think if you manage to disassociate language from whatever is blocking you to absorb them (feeling of failure, of not belonging here..or not being a particularly "language person"), the easier it will be for you. Own it. Make it yours, whatever mistakes you make and imperfections. See your improvements.

Kids, btw, often adopt the same difficulties and attitudes they see at home, they are the best copycats in the world. If you make improvements, and compete who is faster, etc. etc...your kid might make more progress, too.

Just my 2 roubles of foreign language teaching wisdom.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H.Pestalozzi

Last edited by MusicChick; 08.04.2017 at 12:57.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 08.04.2017, 13:03
Longbyt's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,131
Groaned at 57 Times in 53 Posts
Thanked 12,980 Times in 4,732 Posts
Longbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond reputeLongbyt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
I think if you manage to disassociate language from whatever is blocking you to absorb them (feeling of failure, of not belonging here..or not being a particularly "language person"), the easier it will be for you. Own it. Make it yours, whatever mistakes you make and imperfections. See your improvements.
Kids, btw, often adopt the same difficulties and attitudes they see at home, they are the best copycats in the world. If you make improvements, and compete who is faster, etc. etc...your kid might make more progress, too.
When my mother was getting really old and very frustrated by her inability to do the things she had always been able to do, and which her carers didn't do correctly! I'd ask 'Sympathy or Solutions'. I like your 'solutions' as quoted above, but I think the guy needs sympathy at the moment. And anyway, the situation here with Swiss German is in a league by itself.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Longbyt for this useful post:
  #39  
Old 08.04.2017, 13:08
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,279
Groaned at 115 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,375 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Quote:
View Post
I'm also scared of losing my exceptional ability to speak and write in English, fearful that I might end up falling between languages like that mad monk in the Name of the Rose. I did often this terrible schicksal fear!
I've heard this before from English people and I wonder if the fear comes from starting out in a mono lingual culture. It never struck me and I've never heard any Irish person express it, perhaps it's because we're conscious of the existence of at least one other language from an early age...

I wonder if people from mono lingual cultures have the same concern.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 08.04.2017, 13:22
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,481
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

My apologies if my earlier response seemed flippant, or derogatory.

Your post struck me as a sort of proof that learning German is impossible, painful, and detrimental to your existing language skills.

It needn't be any of these 3, but if you keep proving it to be the case, particularly to your child, then you will have trapped yourself and your child in a self fulfilling fantasy.

Learning German is a bit like emigrating. You have to leave where you are from before you can arrive where you're going. Until you've arrived, you are at best in a state of limbo. Bravo, you win, enjoy your linguistic island.

You are quite correct, some things in German seem hopelessly complex when you judge them from a standpoint outside the language. What benefit do you derive from this insight (even if it were true)? Do you think that Native German, or Swiss German, speakers will as a group say "Aha.... English is much better, we'd best stop with this Germanic nonsense."

It isn't true that German has some fundamental flaw which makes it impossible to communicate, neither does English. There isn't a better, or worse, or even perfect language - languages just are.
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sick and tired of the weather in Switzerland cristina.m Other/general 134 21.01.2014 16:36
Man can speak 11 languages (so far!) hannah'sauntie General off-topic 17 04.03.2013 08:51
Sick and tired of this 'hunting game' sannder Housing in general 29 31.08.2012 18:07
Can we afford to have children on one salary in Switzerland? kimba1 Daily life 129 07.02.2010 18:42
Can we have a list of things we arn't allowed to talk about please. Mikers Complaints corner 45 08.01.2010 11:11


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0