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  #81  
Old 09.04.2017, 10:41
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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But yes, my family and I are weird (i.e. awesome), and none of the countries we've lived in seem to appreciate it, America included. We are used to being outcasts, but being an outcast and not being able to communicate at almost any level is a level of rejection that is getting to even me, probably because this is the first time I have to see my daughter suffer in the same way.

When my one daughter walks up to random strangers and tells them they should be a Togruta too so that they can learn the ways of the force and the other tells people that her arms have atoms that were once in a chicken, a rock, and a stream, there's no way I could ever acknowledge that it's us.

Yup, the world's just weird, and I'm normal. Let's go with that.
It seems that your weirdness is not widely accepted. People apparently expect more normalness than you give. Why not concentrate on finding our why you were always an outcast and see if you can adapt in some way without loosing your self?
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  #82  
Old 09.04.2017, 10:56
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Odd is good.

Trying to fit in is futile. It takes a while but sooner or later you find your group of lovely weirdos, trust me, there are plenty. More than anywhere, I am thrilled. They (as anybody here) are quite discrete. Which makes them better than the abnoxious, loud and ostentatious ones, tbh. I guard my space where nobody talks to me, unless invited. Has nothing to do with languages.
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  #83  
Old 09.04.2017, 10:59
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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This is exactly why I never talk about how I feel up to this thread, because the idea of using a language that everyone can use seems to make most people angry.
I explained to you why I'm upset and disturbed. Don't start twisting my words.

In my opinion the following statement from your opening post speaks volumes:

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I want to spend my life living it, not wasting time learning things I'm not really interested in. (Yes, I studied Spanish for 6 years and Japanese for 3 years. Despite going to those countries, I've never really had to use them because I speak, you know, a more universal language by default. Do I want to have that happen with German as well? Hell no, I've wasted enough of my life already.)
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  #84  
Old 09.04.2017, 11:12
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

You're like a goth who spends hours putting on makeup because they're "so different" and "no-one gets me" despite the fact it's a pretty well defined lifestyle and lots of people all do it identically.

You're a hippy. That's it. Teaching your daughter to say "my arms are made of chickens" instead of "hello" is why the Swiss kids stay away.
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  #85  
Old 09.04.2017, 11:31
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Goodness, just came across this thread - a sunny April Sunday is a little too short for even finishing reading the first post. Will definitely get around to it, but for now here just my first thoughts.

As for needing to speak Swiss German in Switzerland, that's really up for debate. Personally, I would not try - it will just confuse, and you can't use it anywhere else (unless you like people in German speaking countries pointing at you with a snigger and muttering to the friend next to them "They are obviously from Switzerland, snigger, snigger" when you happen to call a croissant a gipfeli.

I find German quite a nice, precise language - although lousy at the grammar, even after many years in Switzerland - I get by pretty well. And very often feel a huge sense of achievement at the end of each exchange when I feel that I've managed that sentence. There will always be a mistake, but I don't care.

As for needing English in Switzerland, must say that the languages spoken around me in the IT/Bank world within my offices are mostly a complete mix of various English, various Asian, Polish, German, French, Italian, Danish, and a few others I can't precisely identify.

Hardly hear any Swiss German. But I do love that sound of Swiss German when abroad, or just about to return home (before then offering a little snigger and getting back to daily-life here).

In my experience, Swiss children also love to speak high-German to their friends - and it gives them also a sense of achievement.
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  #86  
Old 09.04.2017, 11:57
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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You're like a goth who spends hours putting on makeup because they're "so different" and "no-one gets me" despite the fact it's a pretty well defined lifestyle and lots of people all do it identically.

You're a hippy. That's it. Teaching your daughter to say "my arms are made of chickens" instead of "hello" is why the Swiss kids stay away.
https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...g-trouble.html
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  #87  
Old 09.04.2017, 12:30
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

Aww, I'm the opposite I think, I love learning languages, I don't only learn German and Swiss German but also others as hobbies. I don't care if I don't need to use them. I don't care if I am not good at them (actually I do, but I don't get upset or angry about it, it just makes me want to study them more so I can get better)

I understand the frustration but I see it in a different way I love the challenge and like to embrace the chaos!

We are all different though, I do feel for you because my husband feels the same way. He didn't enjoy learning German, didn't seem to find it easy and after 2.5 years of trying really hard has called it quits now. We've had lengthy discussions about it and I guess for him it must be like me with other things (maths, finances, planning, being organised, logistics etc. I'm a total scatterbrain ). If I had to study any of those I think it would get me down and I would want to rant about it!

I don't know what to suggest to you about your own situation, but I'd like to offer some reassurance on your daughter's situation. It took a while for my youngest to integrate into kindergarten and to pick up German and Swiss German, but it does happen! I understand that the Swiss kids can sometimes leave out the foreign ones, but they don't mean to be exclusive. It's just easier for them to play with kids without the linguistic restrictions and they're just kids so they are less developed socially; they do need a helping hand. I found that in the UK as a parent, you made friends with another parent/your kid makes friends with another kid just one time and that's it, no more effort required the relationship carries itself from there! Not so here, in my experience you seem to have to repeatedly take the first steps several times, at least 10 or 15 times before it takes off by itself. At first it seemed like maybe they didn't want to be friends with us, but I think it's just a slightly different culture. Don't be disheartened. Keep calling, keep inviting the other kids. Good luck!

Sorry if any parts of this post don't make sense, it was written in between many distractions and I haven't proofread it
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  #88  
Old 09.04.2017, 13:10
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

The OP sounds like a miserable sod who simply does not enjoy the diversity of life. Recommend you move to whete noone lives so you dont have to interact with other humans
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  #89  
Old 09.04.2017, 13:27
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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The OP sounds like a miserable sod who simply does not enjoy the diversity of life. Recommend you move to whete noone lives so you dont have to interact with other humans
Boy, and I thought that I was the hypercritical, intolerant, unfriendly, unhelpful poster of the month. Looks as if I lost the job!
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Old 09.04.2017, 13:34
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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Boy, and I thought that I was the hypercritical, intolerant, unfriendly, unhelpful poster of the month. Looks as if I lost the job!
Have you actually read through the thread? OP is either a really good troll (he claims he is not ) or got priorities seriously wrong..

I for one fully agree with Wallabies. Sometimes you don't have to be Swiss and you can say straight out what's right.
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  #91  
Old 09.04.2017, 14:52
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I have indeed been reading this thread. I agree that part of the problem lies in the attitude of the OP. I agree with those who suggest that he should approach the problem differently, particularly in respect of his daughter - whose difficulties were probably the main reason for writing this thread in the first place. But the OP a 'miserable sod'? No.
This section is Complaints Corner and his 'complaint' is, to my mind, valid.

Outwardly, I am a law-abiding Swiss. At heart I am a Brit rebel and sometimes the coating of Swissness wears thin, the cloak of integration slips from my shoulders. I jump up in the middle of a Swiss Reformed Church Service in a large and very conservative Swiss Reformed Church and say that we should sing that hymn again with a bit more enthusiasm. Oh dear! So was macht man hier nicht!

And I think the guy has a similar sort of problem. He would like to fit in and be accepted but doesn't want to lose his own identity.
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Old 09.04.2017, 15:11
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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And I think the guy has a similar sort of problem. He would like to fit in and be accepted but doesn't want to lose his own identity.
Do you lose your identity by learning a new language? He (or she?) clearly stated that he is not interested in learning German (see quote in comment #83) and because he is not interested to do so, everybody else should change.

Don't get me wrong, that's fine with me you don't have to learn a new language, but don't expect others to change for you and don't complain that you can't connect or that you feel lonely.
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  #93  
Old 09.04.2017, 15:32
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

The guy did also say this though.
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So quit whining and learn more German, right? I did and have struggled to learn High German for nearly 3 years now
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Old 09.04.2017, 15:41
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I also think his humor flies over people's heads without being grasped. I would not crucify him.

Arranging a one-on-one rigorous pattern of lessons is good, or coaxing somebody else in it, too, so you guys stick to it for longer. But there is a window of a few years when one feels like making no improvements, it is completely normal. For some people (most adults) the language magic is a lot of sweat. Or they make a mistake of wanting to cram it instead of use it. Memorize instead of learning by using it, making mistakes. Mistakes are good.
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Old 09.04.2017, 15:51
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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But there is a window of a few years when one feels like making no improvements.
...and if, while getting to grips with Swiss German, you make the mistake of moving more than about thirty kms you find yourself not exactly back at square one, but certainly doing a penalty circuit.
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Old 09.04.2017, 16:22
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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The guy did also say this though.
I know. My point is that with the mindset "learning the local language is not interesting to me, hence everybody else should change" one will actually not learn that language.
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Old 09.04.2017, 16:54
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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I give you Brustwartzen.
Not really sure why tits is any better though
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Old 09.04.2017, 16:57
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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...and if, while getting to grips with Swiss German, you make the mistake of moving more than about thirty kms you find yourself not exactly back at square one, but certainly doing a penalty circuit.
Even if Swiss-German is your native language you could have problems - we moved 30Kms and my native wife says she can't understand everything the locals say.

I've been here for years and I find it a real struggle too. When opening an instruction manual or looking at ingredients on a package, I instinctively go for the French first as I did that for a couple of years at school many, many years ago.

I did a couple of years of German at school and absolutely hated it.
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Old 09.04.2017, 17:01
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

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I get it checked by my Swiss husband as it may well be riddled with grammatical errors.

Longbyt, please don't get me wrong - I completely agree. But am a little shocked to hear that Swiss German has grammar rules
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  #100  
Old 09.04.2017, 17:10
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Re: I am so sick and tired of languages, can we agree on one PLEASE

I'm newly 'proficient' in German, been doing a B2.1 course the last couple of months (my O level grade E schoolboy german got me through the last 16 years).

But I'm now sitting listening to locals speaking Romansch, and looking at a house tomorrow with a view to moving here (Ilanz near Laax). TBH I'm relishing the idea of having to learn yet another language, not least because I'm sure the locals will really appreciate any outsiders that do.

And with good French and well-taught but unpracticed Italian my hope would be that we shouldn't struggle so much with it as with the horribly inflicted (ha! what a typo, should have read inflected) German.

So I'll go along with the OP this far - let's make it one official language only, everyone will need to speak Romansch.

Although apparently the Surselva Romansch is quite different from the Engadin version, so which one to choose?
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