Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:08
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,103
Groaned at 198 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 13,670 Times in 7,111 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
There isn't indeed. And that wasn't my point.

What I resented was the judgment on my situation - i.e getting sexist comments from strangers just like the OP despite the fact that I'm Swiss - from someone who I feel is not really able to judge the situation, if only becaus being male makes it difficult to place oneself in the opposite sex's position.
Sorry, that's an awful sentence. It could be taken as 'yeah well, if you're a foreign female you gotta put up with it but us Swiss, how dare they?!"

I was not impressed by the OP's post but the longer the thread the more I get aware of the problem ....
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:10
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,760
Groaned at 357 Times in 298 Posts
Thanked 13,264 Times in 6,243 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, that's an awful sentence. It could be taken as 'yeah well, if you're a foreign female you gotta put up with it but us Swiss, how dare they?!"
I read this as: it happens to almost all women, whatever nationality, wherever they came from.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #23  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:21
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 247
Groaned at 141 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I read this as: it happens to almost all women, whatever nationality, wherever they came from.
Today my partner went for a job interview but the boss said it probably wouldn't work out as he wouldn't feel comfortable asking her to stay longer than her shift knowing that she has a baby at home.

Sexist or considerate?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:32
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,103
Groaned at 198 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 13,670 Times in 7,111 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Today my partner went for a job interview but the boss said it probably wouldn't work out as he wouldn't feel comfortable asking her to stay longer than her shift knowing that she has a baby at home.

Sexist or considerate?
Realistic.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:33
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,760
Groaned at 357 Times in 298 Posts
Thanked 13,264 Times in 6,243 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Realistic.
You beat me to it
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:44
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,649
Groaned at 359 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 19,161 Times in 9,996 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Wehn studying in NYC, I got remarks because of wearing my hair very short. Only black people loved it and wanted to touch. People told me that I was remarkably white, coming from Swaziland, only my dark hair looked the part.

I found the obsession about breasts quite funny. When I wanted to get drinks for free, I had to don a certain T-shirt and it worked like a charm. Never had the same luck in Switzerland.

And I was asked if we had proper toilets in Switzerland. My NYC one was very capricious and when you flushed, your roommates cried out for getting boiling water in the shower.

I was frowned upon changing in the changing room - for ballet class - without draping a towel around me.

I became a sort of wonder-woman among my classmates because I could cook "from scratch"! "Where do you get those amazing vegetables?" I lived not far of the NYC fruit belt and I just loved to get to the wholesalers who had the ripest and most delicious vegs, great prices - loved it. My friends were amazed that such a thing existed in their city!

And when i went back for good, they really pitied me, going back to such an underdeveloped country somewhere in Sweden. Where I still dwell.
I got asked once in the UK if we eat with silverware. I was so tempted to say we each have just one woodden stick - for eating, writing, self defence, magic tricks, as a toy, to stir the boiling laundry on the stove, use it as a bbq thing to roast wurst...

I do look quite civilized on most days, not sure what prompted that question.

It is funny when some cultures consider themselves better or more sophisticated than others. Especially when they talk with the "knowing look". The culinary and home making skills that chicks have back home are for sure a result of generations of gender inequality, too. Buh.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:52
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 247
Groaned at 141 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Realistic.
Good answer

But playing devil's advocate, isn't a bit sexist too assume that the responsibility is primarily hers?
If I went for that same job interview would they say the same thing to me? And if not then wouldn't that be sexist?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:56
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,752
Groaned at 2,215 Times in 1,648 Posts
Thanked 36,972 Times in 17,509 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Yes
Indeed, my asian stepdaughter and nieces never have souch troubles, as they are Swiss.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:57
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,103
Groaned at 198 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 13,670 Times in 7,111 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Good answer

But playing devil's advocate, isn't a bit sexist too assume that the responsibility is primarily hers?
If I went for that same job interview would they say the same thing to me? And if not then wouldn't that be sexist?
Okay, politically correct would have been: "Who will look after your baby if I need to ask you to stay longer than your shift?
To each of you
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 20.04.2017, 22:59
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,602
Groaned at 77 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 11,225 Times in 4,564 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
After all, they are basically just spitting out the first thing they can associate with you and that's never a sophisticated way of communicating with anyone!
Yes, I agree. Not the most sophisticated. And annoying when one is categorised and labelled, yes.

Surely we all experience those kinds of remarks, in varying contexts?

These are real examples from people I know:
  • The man from Nigeria who had to listen to: "Oh, yes, we once considered going to Colombia, but were scared because of the drug mafia."
  • The woman truck driver who told me that she finally cut her hair short and started to wear lumberjack type shirts because it made her journeys safer if other motorists no longer turned their heads to stare at her behind the wheel.
  • Many of us in Switzerland who, as Marischi posted above, are taken to be from Swaziland or Sweden, where our preferred food is meatballs.
  • The war refugee from Eritrea who was asked, in her assessment interview upon arriving in Switzerland, whether she climbed trees to find a safe place to sleep at night.
  • The male nurse who is asked: "Oh, so you're gay, then?"

By no means am I in favour of discrimination, definitely not! We're all just people, and deserve to be treated with respect. Yet I think that part of the foolishness of such remarks comes from exactly what YellowBirdie said... an awkward blurting out of the first association that comes to mind. Just very sad when that first association categorises bluntly, and remains the only one.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:01
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,649
Groaned at 359 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 19,161 Times in 9,996 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Good answer

But playing devil's advocate, isn't a bit sexist too assume that the responsibility is primarily hers?
If I went for that same job interview would they say the same thing to me? And if not then isn't that sexist?
I think that reasoning on boss's part is faulty, before you even get to any gender in this. Just because one is a parent does not mean that the kid will get sick, or that particular parent does not have a back up. Just shows the boss is not the sharpest person. Parents are not lesser experts in their fields or less organized - usually more. But try to tell that to a doofus who is not looking for a loyal and organized specialist, really.

(My preferred food are meatballs)
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:04
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,752
Groaned at 2,215 Times in 1,648 Posts
Thanked 36,972 Times in 17,509 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I've been in town with female friends and heard people say things like 'jolis seins' .
My wife has no qualms about saying such things, and hers are better than most.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,602
Groaned at 77 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 11,225 Times in 4,564 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Okay, politically correct would have been: "Who will look after your baby if I need to ask you to stay longer than your shift?
To each of you
Or, better:
"I'm aware that you have a baby, and I understand that emergencies can happen. In general, though, can I rest assured that you have organised child-care, such that I could count on you were I to need to ask you to stay longer than your shift?"
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:08
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,272
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I think that reasoning on boss's part is faulty, before you even get to any gender in this. Just because one is a parent does not mean that the kid will get sick, or that particular parent does not have a back up. Just shows the boss is not the sharpest person. Parents are not lesser experts in their fields or less organized - usually more. But try to tell that to a doofus who is not looking for a loyal and organized specialist, really.
I think it depends on what the job is. If the job involves staying late without prior warning (quite common in technical support), then it's a valid concern. He might have phrased it a bit better, but if he knows he needs to ask his staff to stay late without warning, then he is not being a doofus for putting the concern on the table.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 247
Groaned at 141 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I think it depends on what the job is. If the job involves staying late without prior warning (quite common in technical support), then it's a valid concern. He might have phrased it a bit better, but if he knows he needs to ask his staff to stay late without warning, then he is not being a doofus for putting the concern on the table.
Just for info, it was a coffee shop. Didn't really look all that flash either.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:20
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored˛
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,649
Groaned at 359 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 19,161 Times in 9,996 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
I think it depends on what the job is. If the job involves staying late without prior warning (quite common in technical support), then it's a valid concern. He might have phrased it a bit better, but if he knows he needs to ask his staff to stay late without warning, then he is not being a doofus for putting the concern on the table.
A doofus will assume parents do not have a back up and assume none of the adults around the baby won't be able to take care of it (Red Cross, sitter, another parent, grandparents, neighbor...).

To not give a job because of this personal discomfort on the hiring side is far from caring, to answer kris-kros.

Btw - overtime is extremely regulated here.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:27
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,272
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
A doofus will assume parents do not have a back up and assume none of the adults around the baby won't be able to take care of it (Red Cross, sitter, another parent, grandparents, neighbor...).

To not give a job because of this personal discomfort on the hiring side is far from caring, to answer kris-kros.

Btw - overtime is extremely regulated here.
Not all jobs are 9 to 5. I ran tech support departments where it was fairly common to ask people to stay late, or go on an unexpected customer call. As people on the team had family the pool of people to call on reduced. This made my job more challenging, and it also (in some cases) caused tensions within the team.

But now that Kriss mentions that it is a coffee shop... I agree: Doofus.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:28
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,752
Groaned at 2,215 Times in 1,648 Posts
Thanked 36,972 Times in 17,509 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
(My preferred food are meatballs)
Only foreigners eat meatballs.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:30
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 12,103
Groaned at 198 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 13,670 Times in 7,111 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
Only foreigners eat meatballs.

Tom
I remember "Brätkügeli". Wouldn't know the English translation for that - who wants to know, disgusting stuff.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 20.04.2017, 23:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,602
Groaned at 77 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 11,225 Times in 4,564 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Female and Asian here in Switzerland

I think that it is perfectly valid for an interviewer to ask a parent if he or she has child-care organised. The personal details of how the parent does so are not the employer's business, but knowing whether or not this employee can stay late on short notice is wise planning. Put the other way round, neglecting to warn an employee that such overtime might be required would be unfair, and the more so when the boss knows that the employee has a child/children at home.

Yes, it would be discriminatory to make the leap: "if parent, then unreliable ". In the case of kriss kross' partner, the boss assumed that parenting would get in the way of work. That's the pity! In another team, a parent needing to leave on time might just be taken as a fact, where the boss tells everyone: "Remember, folks, try not to give Mary (or Mark) extra tasks at the end of her (or his) shift. I like her (or his) work, and want us all to remember that she (or he) needs to leave punctually."

@MusicChick, that's interesting: I haven't found overtime to be extremely regulated in Switzerland. It seems to me that any employment contract can simply include an "I agree to overtime"-clause.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.04.2017 at 23:53. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
asian, racism, sexism




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm new here and we are interested in moving to Switzerland. Ben. Introductions 20 25.03.2015 16:16
East Asian Supermarkets in Zurich? Asian members? Koldplay Food and drink 6 25.07.2012 17:25
Are you Asean [Asian] living in Switzerland?? farra hidlor General off-topic 9 09.11.2009 10:03
New ASIAN member here! corrine ashleigh Introductions 8 08.08.2006 15:12


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0