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Old 11.08.2017, 13:23
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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You completely broke down my idea of Switzerland being a righteous community, pure madness this.

It also teaches people that it's better to take right in their own hands if they can track down the assaulter since the justice system shows itself being a non-helpful partner when it comes to punishments.
Taking matters into your own hands is also not advisable, as you're probably facing more charges than the initial perpetrator. Mind you, Switzerland is a strange place when it comes to victim protection. For instance, domestic violence only became liable to public prosecution some time in 2003...and technically, according to the law, you can still hit your spouse one time and you'd still be off scot-free. There's not even a centralized register for sexual predators, as shown in ample cases, where people working with children engaged in nefarious activities and were simply allowed to keep working in the same trade.
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Old 11.08.2017, 13:31
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Taking matters into your own hands is also not advisable, as you're probably facing more charges than the initial perpetrator. Mind you, Switzerland is a strange place when it comes to victim protection. For instance, domestic violence only became liable to public prosecution some time in 2003...and technically, according to the law, you can still hit your spouse one time and you'd still be off scot-free. There's not even a centralized register for sexual predators, as shown in ample cases, where people working with children engaged in nefarious activities and were simply allowed to keep working in the same trade.
Running into your raper every week in town while he smiles at you might be a worse punishment then jail ever can be.
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Old 11.08.2017, 13:52
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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There's not even a centralized register for sexual predators
Thereís quite some debate about whether those are good things or not anyway - they have the effect of continuing a personís punishment long after the prison sentence is completed, preventing people from getting jobs, etc.

In any case, a brief talking to from the police in your formative years can go a long ways to shaping a kid up. Scare him straight, essentially. Iíll never understand people who think you shouldnít do anything at all in such cases - you give the kid a chance to get re-steered, you establish a record for yourself in case things escalate, and you generate awareness within the police that bad things are happening and that they might need to refocus. He might not get tossed in jail, sure - but that doesnít mean there arenít positive potential outcomes.
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Old 11.08.2017, 13:57
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Thereís quite some debate about whether those are good things or not anyway - they have the effect of continuing a personís punishment long after the prison sentence is completed, preventing people from getting jobs, etc.

In any case, a brief talking to from the police in your formative years can go a long ways to shaping a kid up. Scare him straight, essentially. Iíll never understand people who think you shouldnít do anything at all in such cases - you give the kid a chance to get re-steered, you establish a record for yourself in case things escalate, and you generate awareness within the police that bad things are happening and that they might need to refocus. He might not get tossed in jail, sure - but that doesnít mean there arenít positive potential outcomes.
Yeah well, let's put it this way....you own a dog, right. Let's say you give your dog to your local neighborhood doggy daycare....and the person taking care of dogs sodomizes Fluffy. Would you possibly want the person to ever be employed in the animal daycare sector, ever again? I thought so too.
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:02
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Kids who haven't learned by that age that putting their hands on someone without their consent is a problem... probably won't learn. .....

Seriously, Is this a commonly accepted belief, and/or professionally backed?


I'm not attacking the belief-----but I honestly don't think that you can't teach, fix, change a 10 year old boy. Their brains aren't even close to beginning to mature and become developed, there's lots of room for corrective action.


Maybe I'm wrong, (since this has come up twice). But it's still feels like a shocking statement to me.
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:04
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

I am so sorry this happened to you.
Definitely go to the police please, to me this isn't just a sexual harassment but also a planned crime with some stalking as you described.
Do write down everything you have remembered, just in case.
Take care!
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:20
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Seriously, Is this a commonly accepted belief, and/or professionally backed?


I'm not attacking the belief-----but I honestly don't think that you can't teach, fix, change a 10 year old boy. Their brains aren't even close to beginning to mature and become developed, there's lots of room for corrective action.


Maybe I'm wrong, (since this has come up twice). But it's still feels like a shocking statement to me.


Put it this way, I've seen some things that would make your hair curl... including a grown woman being backed up into a door by a 13 year old while he made some very unpleasant suggestions. He'd been under the ed-psych for some time but he had predator written all over him. All staff had been advised never to be alone with him even in a classroom with the door open, It took three of us (including the nearly 6 ft colleague he'd cornered ) to get him away... and down to the head teacher. Police and dad called in. I never knew the final outcome .


What do you mean by corrective action? Behaviours are hardwired very early on. Home life plays a huge factor. That's why there is such legal debate about what age a person can be held legally responsible for their actions: such as the children who harm or kill other children intentionally. And yes, I'm sorry, but I do believe that a kid's attitude/response can be set very early. I've taught several boys, and they were boys,albeit often physically taller/bigger than their peers, who had dreadful attitudes to women. Maturity isn't the issue, I don't think. Or rather it is but not in an "actions have consequences " way. More like a... "let's see what this body can do then " way.


I think that the mistake is made to assume children are a different species who are unformed. They're not. They're short people and as much a work in progress as the rest of us. Some are wonderful, some are creepy. Some are full of life, some have shark eyes.

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Old 11.08.2017, 14:20
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Yeah well, let's put it this way....you own a dog, right. Let's say you give your dog to your local neighborhood doggy daycare....and the person taking care of dogs sodomizes Fluffy. Would you possibly want the person to ever be employed in the animal daycare sector, ever again? I thought so too.
I suppose that depends on whether Fluffy consented. ("Bark once for yes...")
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:32
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Put it this way, I've seen some things that would make your hair curl... including a grown woman being backed up into a door by a 13 year old while he made some very unpleasant suggestions. He'd been under the ed-psych for some time but he had predator written all over him. All staff had been advised never to be alone with him even in a classroom with the door open, It took three of us (including the nearly 6 ft colleague he'd cornered ) to get him away... and down to the head teacher. Police and dad called in. I never knew the final outcome .


What do you mean by corrective action? Behaviours are hardwired very early on. Home life plays a huge factor. That's why there is such legal debate about what age a person can be held legally responsible for their actions: such as the children who harm or kill other children intentionally. And yes, I'm sorry, but I do believe that a kid's attitude/response can be set very early. I've taught several boys, and they were boys,albeit often physically taller/bigger than their peers, who had dreadful attitudes to women. Maturity isn't the issue, I don't think. Or rather it is but not in an "actions have consequences " way. More like a... "let's see what this body can do then " way.


I think that the mistake is made to assume children are a different species who are unformed. They're not. They're short people and as much a work in progress as the rest of us. Some are womderful, some are creepy. Some are full of life, some have shark eyes.
Although this are all examples of concerning behavior, they definitely cannot be generalized across an entire population.
It's fine that in your experiences, you believe attitudes and response can be set in 10 years.
Science and research have shown that brain before maturity are very underdeveloped and cannot properly foresee consequences and long term effects of decisions made...that's why they children are 'treated as different species' that's why we have parents, guardian, teachers and caretakers to mold them properly.
If you feel a 10 year old should be locked up and separated from society because of this action--that's your opinion, but I think looking at where the kid learned this behavior to be 'acceptable', and teach him the respect of other humans, and the consequences of not doing so.
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:32
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

what about a healthy dose of a pepper spray in the face if he ever comes close again? there are some lessons to be learned even if he is dumb as a brick.


+ photo & involve police in the meantime
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:39
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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So there's this one kid in my neighborhood I think he's something like 10 to 12. Two days ago he followed me from the bus stop to my house (around 6 minutes) and i thought he lived in the same building or something. When i stopped in front of my door, he grabbed my butt and quickly cycled away. I was so shocked and mad at the same time. Yesterday he followed me to the bus stop AGAIN but luckily there was my neighbor at the bus stop so I told her what he did and he saw us and he cycled away. Today my boyfriend saw him following some Asian's girl again and my boyfriend ran after him but he was too fast to catch. We asked Coop employees they said they know this kid, because he often steals something from Coop. But no one knows who is his parent and where he lives.
I don't know if he only do this to Asian's women, but I don't want this to happen to me or anyone again, I feel so unsafe right now because he's not like a little kid, he's big and creepy. I heard that here in Switzerland kids are untouchable and also not guilty. Please can you advise me what I should do now, I only have the picture of his face and a video of him (but he's hiding his face)


I want to go to the police but i'm not sure if this problem is big enough maybe people think it's a prank? Or should I try to find out who is his parent and talk to them?

Very weird story... Asian women with a butt to grab?
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:45
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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what about a healthy dose of a pepper spray in the face if he ever comes close again? there are some lessons to be learned even if he is dumb as a brick.


+ photo & involve police in the meantime
Then it's his word against yours. A swift chop on the trapezius (closer to the neck than the shoulder..make sure you don't hit the neck!!) will render him unconscious and there's hardly any bruising from that. Then put him in the recovery position and make sure you engage in "airway management", meaning open his mouth, tongue shouldn't obstruct breathing etc....
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:47
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Although this are all examples of concerning behavior, they definitely cannot be generalized across an entire population.
It's fine that in your experiences, you believe attitudes and response can be set in 10 years.
Science and research have shown that brain before maturity are very underdeveloped and cannot properly foresee consequences and long term effects of decisions made...that's why they children are 'treated as different species' that's why we have parents, guardian, teachers and caretakers to mold them properly.
If you feel a 10 year old should be locked up and separated from society because of this action--that's your opinion, but I think looking at where the kid learned this behavior to be 'acceptable', and teach him the respect of other humans, and the consequences of not doing so.
Where did I say lock up the the 10 year old kids?

And I know all about the developmental stuff thanks, which is why I said what I did. I also think that some people, kids and adults, have some crossed wiring somewhere and it's a mistake to dismiss those individuals as "just a kid" or "just has a weird sense of humour" etc. It's not black and white and I never suggested it was.

And what happens if those whose job it is to teach the respect - namely parents/guardians- can't or won't do it? Where does the responsibility lie? Where does the buck stop?

Like I said, some people are amazing, some are not.
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Old 11.08.2017, 14:58
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Where did I say lock up the the 10 year old kids?

And I know all about the developmental stuff thanks, which is why I said what I did. I also think that some people, kids and adults, have some crossed wiring somewhere and it's a mistake to dismiss those individuals as "just a kid" or "just has a weird sense of humour" etc. It's not black and white and I never suggested it was.

And what happens if those whose job it is to teach the respect - namely parents/guardians- can't or won't do it? Where does the responsibility lie? Where does the buck stop?

Like I said, some people are amazing, some are not.

Yes, you didn't say lock up the 10 year old (to be pedantic I didn't say you did). I suggested "lessons in respect" which you disagreed with (although is a chief component of agency intervention), citing it was a gateway crime, further more you suggested he won't learn, so any intervention would be irrelevant, such as corrective action which "won't change hardwired behaviors".
So there are only two options left--if the individual is indeed hardwired to crime---leave them be to further harass society with crime, or separate them from society by locking them up.


Again this started with you disagreeing with my suggestion for behavioral rehabilitation. This begins with the individual and their parents, their influences, their role models, and other influences. Rehabilitation is a process. The end goal, is to respect others right to be not-harassed in public.
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:11
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Yes, you didn't say lock up the 10 year old (to be pedantic I didn't say you did). I suggested "lessons in respect" which you disagreed with (although is a chief component of agency intervention), citing it was a gateway crime, further more you suggested he won't learn, so any intervention would be irrelevant, such as corrective action which "won't change hardwired behaviors".
So there are only two options left--if the individual is indeed hardwired to crime---leave them be to further harass society with crime, or separate them from society by locking them up.


Again this started with you disagreeing with my suggestion for behavioral rehabilitation. This begins with the individual and their parents, their influences, their role models, and other influences. Rehabilitation is a process. The end goal, is to respect others right to be not-harassed in public.
Blueangel said gateway. Not me. I didn't say won't I used modals and words like probably and might because no-one knows for sure. And AFAIK all lessons in schools are lessons in respect. But if they are not reinforced elsewhere it's like pushing water up hill.

I asked what you meant by corrective action. I didn't discount it. Not did I disagree with "behavioural rehabilitation " although it does sound a bit 1984ish. I am saying that some, some ! folk don't respond to it or change for a whole raft of reasons.

Some scary little predators become scary big predators. Some of them learn to hide it better than others. Some learn very quickly that the thing that they did should never be repeated because they respond to re-education etc.

I mostly agree with your last paragraph. I will ask if you've ever worked with teenagers though. I'm guessing not so much as you wouldn't be pushing for a black/white response.
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:22
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

I with draw the 'gateway' cite----correct, I overlooked that.


I do think we are on the same page here, but I am very hesitant to the young-predators become big predators for the age group described.


I would like to think if the OP visually classed the boy as 10-12, he is most likely prepubescent (yes statistically that age could mean either), in which case I feel there's a better chance that is mirrored poor behavior that a young brain can't distinguish yet.


A few examples: Father does the same thing to the mother in a play-fight setting (or other siblings and bf/gf)-where they are well aware of the implied consent, but that is too complex for a child to understand---they just see it as fun teasing.


Or: Watching a low brow movie outside their age range--and can't see that the 'asshole' charming guy is actually sexually assaulting the other.


Of course the source of this anti-social behavior can be further engrained up to the examples you stated.


But I still believe 10 years old overall is still ample time to fix this problem.
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:30
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

I'm sorry this happened to you and I agree with others who recommend contacting the police. There can't be too many schools within cycling distance. The police should be able to track him down with your and the Coop's description and photo.

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...I honestly don't think that you can't teach, fix, change a 10 year old boy. Their brains aren't even close to beginning to mature and become developed, there's lots of room for corrective action...
It was two 10-year-olds involved in that case in Liverpool in 1993. One was jailed as an adult for serious offences.
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:36
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

Thanks a lot everyone

I'm feeling a lot better and now i'm ready to report this to the police. Eventhough he won't get punished because he's maybe too young but it's the right thing to do better than doing nothing.
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:39
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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Very weird story... Asian women with a butt to grab?


small butt, big heart
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Old 11.08.2017, 15:43
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Re: Sexual Harassment from a minor?

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.....


It was two 10-year-olds involved in that case in Liverpool in 1993. One was jailed as an adult for serious offences.




This example is a far outlier, and does fall under RufusB's 'deeper issues' category.


And not to diminish the severity of the OP's situation, but a groping of the buttox is of a very different severity than abduction, torture, mutilation, and murder of an infant.
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