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Old 04.09.2017, 13:11
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Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

I think this is probably the right board for this, but feel free to move it if not.

TBH I've tossed up whether or not to post this...

Last week I responded to a job offer on this forum. In the PM correspondence that followed, the user thanked me for getting in touch but stated that he was looking for a male service provider and could I recommend anyone (!). Naturally I asked why specifically a male was required for a service that is by definition impersonal and requiring no face-to-face contact (if advertised accurately). This morning I have received a reply (the user having since changed user name) that I was rejected because the user feels uncomfortable with women who are not family, due to his religion.

Should such sexual discrimination be accepted on this forum?
Should I name & shame? Give lots of red blobbies? Report the user to the site owners / moderators? Or even elsewhere? What would you do?

(Yes, I know, bullet dodged, and I'd normally dismiss a rejection as a case of win some, lose some, but sexual discrimination is illegal in Switzerland after all)
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:14
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

My view...

- no it absolutely should not be accepted on this forum

- report it to the moderators, the person should be banned from posting jobs

- don't name and shame, they're still a private individual (unless it's a well known firm, where it should be public knowledge)

- red blobs would be appropriate though
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:16
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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I was rejected because the user feels uncomfortable with women who are not family, due to his religion.
Well, at least he's being honest, and it sounds like a perfectly valid reason.

Tom
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:19
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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- don't name and shame, they're still a private individual (unless it's a well known firm, where it should be public knowledge)
The old user name was the name of the poster's SME. I don't know whether the work was required for the business or the individual in a private capacity. I never got the opportunity to ask for more details, nor did I get a reply to my question of whether the service requested was accurate (it's one where the general public tends to use the wrong term)
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:20
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Well, at least he's being honest, and it sounds like a perfectly valid reason.
Do you really think that? Especially for a service where, if accurately advertised, he need never have even met me in person?
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:24
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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I think this is probably the right board for this, but feel free to move it if not.

TBH I've tossed up whether or not to post this...

Last week I responded to a job offer on this forum. In the PM correspondence that followed, the user thanked me for getting in touch but stated that he was looking for a male service provider and could I recommend anyone (!). Naturally I asked why specifically a male was required for a service that is by definition impersonal and requiring no face-to-face contact (if advertised accurately). This morning I have received a reply (the user having since changed user name) that I was rejected because the user feels uncomfortable with women who are not family, due to his religion.

Should such sexual discrimination be accepted on this forum?
Should I name & shame? Give lots of red blobbies? Report the user to the site owners / moderators? Or even elsewhere? What would you do?

(Yes, I know, bullet dodged, and I'd normally dismiss a rejection as a case of win some, lose some, but sexual discrimination is illegal in Switzerland after all)

If really true, the reason given may be valid ( valid to be understood as understandable, as in if he is , say a strict believing and practicing muslim) .....but I wholeheardetly understand your frustration.

I recently had to bite my tongue not to post something similar, when a job was advertised on here, stating age between 20-45......as if a 46yr old or even tad older person isn't just as good at doing the work...considering they are more mature and might even be ore experienced, have had and already raised their kids and are, because of their age and full well knowing that to get a job is good luck,thus possible long term employees who will give their best to fulfill the employers, respectively advertised job's wants and needs!!


....and don't get me started and discrimination against handicapped job seekers!!!
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Last edited by EastEnders; 04.09.2017 at 15:04. Reason: EDit, used 'valid' in the wrong sense and didn't mean it this way.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:25
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

Give this page a reading.

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi.../index.html#a3

And yes it is illegal, user was even so stupid to tell you and give you proof. And yes you can make a case out of it if you want to or feel you need to.

And since the mods requested us to remain friendly on this forum i will not give my personal opinion about this conservative dude.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:27
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

Major newbie mistake. Give a reason other than "We found someone more suitable" or "Unfortunately, you do not fit our exact profile".
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:30
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

OK, I grant that the reason may be valid to the individual if face-to-face contact was required - in the same way as if I were to say "I've been raped so I don't feel comfortable with men who are not family" (I haven't, it's hypothetical). Doesn't mean I can legally use it as the sole reason to reject someone for a job or commission though, surely?
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:31
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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If really true, the reason given may be valid.....
Legally it is not, this guy is making his problem somebody else his/her problem.

What's next? Allowing employers to not feel comfortable around coloured people, handicapped people, people who have a partner, older people And thus allowing them to build their company with only white single male's of age 25/35 without handicap?

Imagine if Mark Zuckerberg would say "I don't feel comfortable around woman due to my religion, so as of today Google Facebook will only hire men"

And yes, also report it to the admins, this board should not give space for such.

Last edited by EdwinNL; 04.09.2017 at 13:52.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:48
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Imagine if Mark Zuckerberg would say "I don't feel comfortable around woman due to my religion, so as of today Google will only hire men"
Really hard to imagine. Like Karl-Heinz Rummenigge announcing FC Barcelona will from now on only play with tutus. Or Sergio Marchionne that each Porsche from know on will come with a baby carrier.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:52
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Really hard to imagine. Like Karl-Heinz Rummenigge announcing FC Barcelona will from now on only play with tutus. Or Sergio Marchionne that each Porsche from know on will come with a baby carrier.
You could have mentioned he first should buy Google :P
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:54
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Legally it is not, this guy is making his problem somebody else his/her problem.

What's next? Allowing employers to not feel comfortable around coloured people, handicapped people, people who have a partner, older people And thus allowing them to build their company with only white single male's of age 25/35 without handicap?

Imagine if Mark Zuckerberg would say "I don't feel comfortable around woman due to my religion, so as of today Google will only hire men"

And yes, also report it to the admins, this board should not give space for such.
Hehe you mean Larry Page and Sergey Brin.
But I'm agree.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:56
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

Unfortunately companies do get away with it. Next time anyone visits a Games Workshop store count how many women are working there. I guarantee none since it's unwritten policy not to hire them.
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:59
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

2 options...

1) Burn the witch!!!

Let's make that person with pathetic and discriminatory attitude "pay the price" and "learn his lesson the hard way" facing a public court of angry mob (who will not necessarily understand why they have to punish but do it anyway, BURN THE WITCH!).

2) Try the official way, raising an official complaint.
Apparently one has up to 3 months to complain and can obtain a compension not exceeding 3 months salary.
You have allegedely sufficient written evidence to prove it anyway.

I do see any other option because this attitude nowadays should not be tolerated, not accepted and not ignored.

I know which option I would choose, but I'm far from being a social reference to follow.

Good luck!
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Old 04.09.2017, 13:59
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

You have a PM.
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Old 04.09.2017, 14:07
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Unfortunately companies do get away with it. Next time anyone visits a Games Workshop store count how many women are working there. I guarantee none since it's unwritten policy not to hire them.
No (or extremely few) women work at Games Workshop stores because 99% of tabletop players who have real interest and expertise in the games are male. The rest of the conclusion is your own supposition.
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Old 04.09.2017, 14:13
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

My sincere respect to the thread starter: thank you very much for talking about it and raising the issue.

If i lived in Dubai or Qatar, or similar, i would have understood the traditional, religious, legal covenants and acted accordingly. And i have for 30 years lived in states similar to these.

The job advertiser must not forget that he operates in Europe/Switzerland and the rules and laws here are different.

A man can choose not to shake a strange woman's hand in a bank, after an especially low interest deal, or at a corporate reception or a party, and i can understand that.
but when it comes to employment he should follow the law.
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Old 04.09.2017, 14:21
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

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Unfortunately companies do get away with it. Next time anyone visits a Games Workshop store count how many women are working there. I guarantee none since it's unwritten policy not to hire them.
None is wrong (from my own eyes).

To me a company should on percentage of employed men/women roughly reflect the same percentage of men/women applying for a job. If only men apply for a job then I expect a company to employ only men.

(If they company could change things to attract more women, is to me another discussion)
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Old 04.09.2017, 14:23
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Re: Sexual discrimination in job offer on EF

Yay, religion!
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