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Old 05.09.2017, 18:29
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Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

The Swiss Post "delivered" a parcel to my address (dropped it at the door without notice ), i knew from an email (from post.ch), that i would receive a parcel, but as i arrived at 8 pm , the parcel was nowhere to be found.
So, somebody stole it.
I contacted the post with an email, they replied a day later(but i returned too late from work)
So , after i contacted them on the phone on monday:

1. They are dropping the parcels now at the entrance of the building, if you don't revoke this "agreement". They don't need a signature for most of the parcels, so if you don't register on mypost.ch, you don't know that a shipment is due to arrive.
Everybody can take your shipment.
2. The post is trying to make a compensation in post vouchers. Only if you insist, you will get a refund to your bank account.
3. Try to redirect your shipments to a place where you work or where somebody lives you trust.
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Old 05.09.2017, 18:57
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

Anybody can take any parcel even from your mailbox if you are not present. The post office unfortunately considers them as 'delivered' even if not signed for or given to the addressee in person.
We have had numerous parcels (mostly Amazon) go missing, we assume they are regularly being stolen. I simply tell Amazon we have not received them (many are not even tracked). Most of the time they refund the money, so it goes back onto our credit card, then we have to start the order process all over again and hope that they are not stolen a second time.

When Amazon (or the site we have bought from) refuses to refund because they say that it has been delivered (because it was tracked), we resort to a 'chargeback' on our credit card and get the money back that way.
If the credit card chargeback doesn't work, then there is another option (that's a whole other story though).

Theft of parcels, whether from outside of your flat door, outside of your block's entranceway or from mailboxes is a growing problem in Switzerland.

We don't contact the courier service and especially not the post office about this as it is a total waste of time and energy, they are generally completely useless and simply confirm it was delivered! It is ridiculous, but it is like this!

The police can also do nothing they told us, as they would have to actually see the person stealing the parcels to be able to do something!
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Old 05.09.2017, 19:10
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

Had the same problem with a parcel last week, though fortunately wasn't stolen: I was waiting for a parcel to arrive Thursday (as mentioned on my online account with the Post), and by Monday I had neither package nor recipe to pick it up with the Post. Online tracking was giving an error.

Found out Tuesday that a neighbour, trying to avoid it from getting stolen, put it inside the house, half hidden on a niche in the entrance, and it had been there for 4 days. The post decided to drop it off at the entrance, even though I specifically have opted out of "leaving parcel outside", and then they used the wrong code to register the delivery.

Complained to the Post and got an automatic "Sorry, won't happen again" answer. So yay...

Of course that on that same week, something I specifically asked to be delivered on Tuesday - free day booked just for that - was actually delivered on Monday ("it's a feature", they told me ). They wanted me to pay again to be delievered from their warehouse to my home. They delivered, no extra pay, because no one is pulling my leg.

No idea what happened, last month was a very bad month with the Post - they are usually pretty good.
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Old 05.09.2017, 21:31
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

We, too, are having the same problem - both with the post and with the commercial carriers. Actually, the commercial carriers seem to be worse.

Parcels are being left by the Quartier garage, on the street. This is quite far away from the houses, not visible to residents but quite obvious to anyone passing by. Surprise, surprise, packages get stolen.

According to folks I've complained to at both the post and the commercial carriers, a parcel dropped at the street now counts as delivered, there is no longer a requirement that the delivery person attempt to bring it to a building. Complaints get met with a 'Na und?' and a shrug.

What really irks me is that few of the retailers I order from have an option to request delivery to the door against a signature. I'd gladly pay extra for that if it existed, as it does just about everywhere else.

Very frustrating. I rarely shop in retail stores as few carry anything I want, and now online shopping - where I can actually find what I need - is turning into a poor option as chances are the package will never arrive, thanks to new delivery policies and an uptick in crime.

Hell in a handbasket.

Harumpf.

/rant
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Old 05.09.2017, 21:59
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

http://www.boredpanda.com/fedex-ups-...ign=BPFacebook

(hope the link works)
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Old 05.09.2017, 22:43
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

http://www.conrad.ch/ce/fr/product/1...list#emptylink
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Old 05.09.2017, 22:55
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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When Amazon (or the site we have bought from) refuses to refund because they say that it has been delivered (because it was tracked), we resort to a 'chargeback' on our credit card and get the money back that way.
By swiss law at least you have no right to claim back the money - the shop's obligation was just to hand the package over to the post, the risks are all yours from then on, provided the shop can prove they shipped. You can chargeback, but there's a risk it'll bounce back to you as a Betreibung, a justified one which will stay on your record for 5 years. What you're supposed to do is report theft to the police and charge the loss to your household insurance - mailbox contents count as your household. And if it's smaller than the deductible - too bad, you just have to swallow it then, Buy delivery against signature next time
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Old 06.09.2017, 08:08
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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By swiss law at least you have no right to claim back the money - the shop's obligation was just to hand the package over to the post, the risks are all yours from then on, provided the shop can prove they shipped. You can chargeback, but there's a risk it'll bounce back to you as a Betreibung, a justified one which will stay on your record for 5 years. What you're supposed to do is report theft to the police and charge the loss to your household insurance - mailbox contents count as your household. And if it's smaller than the deductible - too bad, you just have to swallow it then, Buy delivery against signature next time
No that's all totally wrong. Firstly many online stores do not offer delivery against a signature.

I don't know which Swiss law you are referring to, but it is quite clear that Amazon and my credit card providers definitely do not see it the way you do. A chargeback is in my experience, once granted, the last you will hear about the matter.

Proof of posting is not proof of delivery! We assume the parcels (non tracked) are being stolen, but we can't be 100% certain of this for every single parcel, it is quite possible that some of them were never dispatched or were lost in transit. What matters is they did not reach me and in the vast majority of cases there is no proof of delivery, so in this case it is us, the customers, who are protected.

If Amazon and/or my credit card providers are granting refunds for all of these parcels that never rock up then we have no further reason to query anything at all with the police, the post office or least of all our home insurance policy. Moreover none of these are of any help whatsoever (see previous post).

If anyone is going to receive a debt collection enforcement notice it will be the seller, from me, claiming money back for an order that did not reach me and that was refused a refund and refused a chargeback claim!
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:05
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

Get proactive... parcel up your old paper in an amazon box and leave it outside when you go to work... free waste collection!
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:15
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

To add insult to injury, I once got a call from the Basel Lost Property Office.

I didn't recall losing anything, but popped in. Apparently somebody had robbed my Amazon parcel, not fancied my taste in books and dumped the opened parcel on the tram.

I had to pay something like 5 CHF to get my stolen books back
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:15
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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Get proactive... parcel up your old paper in an amazon box and leave it outside when you go to work... free waste collection!
Lovely idea! I might try this.

The thing is this is happening sometimes whilst I am out shopping or maybe I'm in the laundry room. There's nearly always someone in as we don't go out to work.
My partner is in the flat, but do you think the couriers / postal workers bother to ring the bell?! No, they clearly also have time constraints, are under pressure and just plonk them in the mailbox or on rare occasions even in front of the door, so we don't know anything about it if it just disappears.
We only realise if we check the updates online and see that the tracking shows 'delivered'.
If it is non-tracked, then you can forget it. A couple of weeks later when it becomes obvious it has been lost/taken, we are forced to claim our money back.

We are convinced that it must be someone from the building (or adjoining blocks) who is also at home or hanging around waiting to take parcels from mailboxes. Other neighbours have had parcels disappear as well.
One other neighbour has been to the police, as have we, but they are of no help whatsoever and clearly have more important things to deal with.
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:21
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

I remember seeing parcel boxes that were lockable - the idea being that the key is left in the unlocked parcel box, then when it is used the deliverer locks it and posts the key into the postbox which is normally secure.

I can't recall where I saw them or find them now though.

It would work against opportunist thieves, assuming they don't fish the key out of the postbox or just get a copy cut.
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:25
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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I remember seeing parcel boxes that were lockable - the idea being that the key is left in the unlocked parcel box, then when it is used the deliverer locks it and posts the key into the postbox which is normally secure.

I can't recall where I saw them or find them now though.

It would work against opportunist thieves, assuming they don't fish the key out of the postbox or just get a copy cut.
DHL in Germany offer this I believe. The customer installs a DHL postbox outside their home. I don't know if they offer this in Switzerland.
Of course the drawback is the parcels concerned have to be sent via Deutsche Post or DHL for it to work as anything else (Hermes, Fedex, DPD etc.) would be put into the 'other'/ordinary postbox.
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:35
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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DHL in Germany offer this I believe. The customer installs a DHL postbox outside their home. I don't know if they offer this in Switzerland.
Of course the drawback is the parcels concerned have to be sent via Deutsche Post or DHL for it to work as anything else (Hermes, Fedex, DPD etc.) would be put into the 'other'/ordinary postbox.
That's different - where the deliverer has a key.

What I was describing is that the key is left inside the box, so any deliverer can use it.

Of course there's nothing stopping the key being stolen thus making the box useless, but if you only put the key in when expecting a delivery then they probably aren't going to check every day.
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:48
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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I remember seeing parcel boxes that were lockable - the idea being that the key is left in the unlocked parcel box, then when it is used the deliverer locks it and posts the key into the postbox which is normally secure.
But these days when the size of the parcel has no relationship whatever to the size of the article therein, we would need VERY large parcel boxes even for a Garmin chip!
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Old 06.09.2017, 10:59
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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I remember seeing parcel boxes that were lockable - the idea being that the key is left in the unlocked parcel box, then when it is used the deliverer locks it and posts the key into the postbox which is normally secure.
ooooh...my wicked teen mind kicked into life for a wee moment there...back home such parcel boxes would be locked and the keys kept or thrown away...just for the simple kick of pissing somebody off and having them deal with the problem.
Ahem...I'm now all grown up and stable...and a model citizen living in Switzerland...promise
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Old 06.09.2017, 11:26
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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According to folks I've complained to at both the post and the commercial carriers, a parcel dropped at the street now counts as delivered, there is no longer a requirement that the delivery person attempt to bring it to a building. Complaints get met with a 'Na und?' and a shrug.

Hell in a handbasket.

Harumpf.

/rant
That is because you people are calling/contacting call centers, the most useless action ever, waste of time and almost guaranteed to have yourself a big fat nothing.

What matters is the rules, law, and then you can complain, preferably in writing.


For example, also use "plaintes.ch" for a bit more visibility, and use social media (of course, when the complaint is legitimate)> https://www.plaintes.ch/complaint.php (they have German equivalent, inside that website).

If you use the post, if they lose a parcel, they are responsible.
They can claim they deliver, but they will have to prove it, without it, you have to make a written complain.

Of course, there's also the option to use insurance but that won't punish the offender's allies (the post). Legal assistance, could maybe be involved.

When people will finally react against call centers lies and inneficiency, and force companies to respect their engagement, then there will be far many less troubles for honest people.
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Old 06.09.2017, 11:28
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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To add insult to injury, I once got a call from the Basel Lost Property Office.

I didn't recall losing anything, but popped in. Apparently somebody had robbed my Amazon parcel, not fancied my taste in books and dumped the opened parcel on the tram.

I had to pay something like 5 CHF to get my stolen books back
You are responsible for your own misery.

Next time order decent books, it will save you 5chf!

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Old 06.09.2017, 11:31
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

About parcel boxes:

Yes they exist, and they exist in different sizes. There is even strict norms on what measures are allowed, so you don't go to Germany to buy the same crap for 10x less (true story).

If you'd like to see how it might look like, here's a model I just got from the catalogue lying on top of my table:

http://www.stebler.ch/galerie/briefk...etboxen/s-easy
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Old 06.09.2017, 11:41
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Re: Parcel Trouble Swiss Post

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By swiss law at least you have no right to claim back the money - the shop's obligation was just to hand the package over to the post, the risks are all yours from then on, provided the shop can prove they shipped. You can chargeback, but there's a risk it'll bounce back to you as a Betreibung, a justified one which will stay on your record for 5 years. What you're supposed to do is report theft to the police and charge the loss to your household insurance - mailbox contents count as your household. And if it's smaller than the deductible - too bad, you just have to swallow it then, Buy delivery against signature next time
Not entirely true!
If its the post, they are responsible for delivery. If they can not prove it has been delivered, they have to compensate.

For Postpac Economy it';s 500chf (Responsabilité

Dans le cadre de l’offre «Colis Suisse», la Poste répond des dommages en cas de perte, d’avarie ou de distribution incorrecte pour un montant maximal de CHF 500.-.
), google translate, it, and the source is the post website (I have no time to spoon fed today).

Now they introduce something new, an additional service, where the client is granting "special authorisation of delivery" which will lift their responsability, in exchange of an allegedly non standard distribution method (the standard being the hand delivery or leaving the little card to pick up later).

Let me rephrase that diplomatically>

"One can authorise the thief to steal your parcel by allowing the post not to do their delivery job properly and accepting 100% of the responsability instead of the post, all for free, risk guaranteed".


Among this explicit authorisation to get f3cked, there is allowing:
-distribution of parcel next to the mailbox (outside). For added visibility for the thiefs and providing temptation.
-distribution near the entry door. Again for thief and to help your bad neighboor punish you.
-On the garden. 100% secure.
-In the shed or garden shelter. Sure, nobody will see it there.

https://www.post.ch/fr/particuliers/...e-distribution (still google translate it).


Summary:
If the client does not explicitely chose the dumb option, it's still the post responsability for the parcel delivery, and they have to pay/compensate if they screw up. Even without signed delivery. Of course, if you listen to call centers, then you can be told any kind of garbage.

PS: For the record, the signed delivery is only an additional option, which grants a bit more money in case they lose the parcel, but does not prevent loss. In Lausanne I had several time that option and they still gave parcel to neighboors without authorisation. Once I got one back a few days after, and without any "tracking" option, since it's marked as delivered and signed.
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