Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01.11.2017, 09:09
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Apartment handover

My son moved out of his apartment yesterday. We did the cleaning ourselves instead of paying 400 CHF for a cleaning institute to do it.It was a very small apartment. And we cleaned everything very thoroughly but unfortuately we forgot to clean under the bathroom sink where there was a little lime ( kalk ) deposit remaining. My son also forgot to clean the dust away from under his bed. At the handover the girl who took the apartment was there with her mother and the property manager. The mother saw the lime deposit and the dust on the floor and it was too late for my son to clean it away. So the mother said if my son gives her 100CHF she will clean it herself.! 100 CHF for maybe 10 minutes work. These greedy Swiss!
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users groan at omtatsat for this post:
  #2  
Old 01.11.2017, 10:21
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
My son moved out of his apartment yesterday. We did the cleaning ourselves instead of paying 400 CHF for a cleaning institute to do it.It was a very small apartment. And we cleaned everything very thoroughly but unfortuately we forgot to clean under the bathroom sink where there was a little lime ( kalk ) deposit remaining. My son also forgot to clean the dust away from under his bed. At the handover the girl who took the apartment was there with her mother and the property manager. The mother saw the lime deposit and the dust on the floor and it was too late for my son to clean it away. So the mother said if my son gives her 100CHF she will clean it herself.! 100 CHF for maybe 10 minutes work. These greedy Swiss!

Why would it be too late to clean it?

Sounds a bit suss just to hand over 100.-. In the time it takes to go and get the money, he could have got a bucket, cloth and a brush and done it himself.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01.11.2017, 10:26
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Apartment handover

The agent could not wait around and my son had removed all the cleaning material from the apartment.But 100 CHF!! Her daughter had also promised that if she gets the apartment she would buy the wardrobe that my son wanted to get rid off.
She refused to take the wardrobe after she got the apartment.


A-hole people!


Quote:
Why would it be too late to clean it?

Sounds a bit suss just to hand over 100.-. In the time it takes to go and get the money, he could have got a bucket, cloth and a brush and done it himself.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01.11.2017, 10:34
Elu Elu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Olten
Posts: 423
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 763 Times in 331 Posts
Elu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
My son moved out of his apartment yesterday. We did the cleaning ourselves instead of paying 400 CHF for a cleaning institute to do it.It was a very small apartment. And we cleaned everything very thoroughly but unfortuately we forgot to clean under the bathroom sink where there was a little lime ( kalk ) deposit remaining. My son also forgot to clean the dust away from under his bed. At the handover the girl who took the apartment was there with her mother and the property manager. The mother saw the lime deposit and the dust on the floor and it was too late for my son to clean it away. So the mother said if my son gives her 100CHF she will clean it herself.! 100 CHF for maybe 10 minutes work. These greedy Swiss!


I understand your frustration, but in the end she had to clean because you didn't do your job properly. Others would have done it for free and some People would have refused to take over the apartment and you would had to pay the cleaning institute and maybe additional costs.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Elu for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 01.11.2017, 10:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,510
Groaned at 979 Times in 688 Posts
Thanked 17,517 Times in 6,865 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
The agent could not wait around and my son had removed all the cleaning material from the apartment.But 100 CHF!! Her daughter had also promised that if she gets the apartment she would buy the wardrobe that my son wanted to get rid off.
She refused to take the wardrobe after she got the apartment.


A-hole people!
This thread is proof, if any more were needed, or how poor your judgement is and how utterly neurotic and angry your character appear to be.

You know full well that you were supposed to do a perfect clean of the apartment in preparation for a formal handover, and yet you fully admit yourself that you failed to achieve this. The new tenant was well within their rights to insist on a professional cleaner to come in and clean which would have cost 400+chf, but instead they were generous and offered to do it themselves for 100chf. 100chf for doing a job that you were supposed to have done is cheap, because in the end you are simply wasting their time with your lack of diligence and consideration.

Calling them an a-hole is wrong, unwarranted, and I think it is clear to everyone reading this thread that the only person who deserves that name is you. What a joke.
Reply With Quote
The following 18 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 01.11.2017, 10:59
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Apartment handover

The girl only got the apartment because one of my son's friend's is a friend of the girl. So my son said she could look at the apartment in advance. And that she promised to take his furniture and later said no.My label for these people is quite justified
Reply With Quote
This user groans at omtatsat for this post:
  #7  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,510
Groaned at 979 Times in 688 Posts
Thanked 17,517 Times in 6,865 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
The girl only got the apartment because one of my son's friend's is a friend of the girl. So my son said she could look at the apartment in advance. And that she promised to take his furniture and later said no.My label for these people is quite justified
Yeah, well it's only one wardrobe and maybe in the end it wasn't in as good condition as she thought when first agreed to it.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:08
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Apartment handover

For your information it was in good condition. Just an ungrateful person and her mother no better! A couple of hundred people wanted this apartment
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:13
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,390
Groaned at 349 Times in 291 Posts
Thanked 12,418 Times in 5,965 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
For your information it was in good condition. Just an ungrateful person and her mother no better! A couple of hundred people wanted this apartment
And did they all want the wardrobe??
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Apartment handover

The apartment was given to the girl befoe anybody else looked at it. And my son did not make taking the wardrobe a condition for getting the apartment.
So the girls attidude after she secured the apartment was " up you".
Quote:
View Post
And did they all want the wardrobe??
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,510
Groaned at 979 Times in 688 Posts
Thanked 17,517 Times in 6,865 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
For your information it was in good condition. Just an ungrateful person and her mother no better! A couple of hundred people wanted this apartment
Yeah, they should have been grateful for being pressured to take your wardrobe... and also to you guys for not cleaning the apartment properly... selfish b**ches!

In reality, I am sure you are an absolute and utter nightmare to deal with on any rational level.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:25
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,918
Groaned at 2,041 Times in 1,124 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Apartment handover

She was not pressured in any way. It was out of a favour from my son that she got first preference for the apartment
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:31
Elu Elu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Olten
Posts: 423
Groaned at 18 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 763 Times in 331 Posts
Elu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond reputeElu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
She was not pressured in any way. It was out of a favour from my son that she got first preference for the apartment


So she has to accept a flat that was not cleaned properly?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:44
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
She was not pressured in any way. It was out of a favour from my son that she got first preference for the apartment
There are 2 distinct situations here.

1) The alleged blackmail attempt to "do a favor" for a relatively high sum.

2) The taking over furniture.

I agree, based on information provided, that this 100chf thing appears to be ridiculous and over zealous, a little bit abusing even.

As for the furniture, even your son did not put any pressure, its still inappropriate to propose selling the furniture to the apartment because it's highly implied that there will be some kind of "obligation" to be preferred.

But lets step 2 steps back, you have done it all terribly wrong in 2 critical steps.

When leaving, there should have been no friendly arrangement made between the leaving tenant and the prospective tenant. That choice of who will take the new lease should have been made by the agent/owner. Which implies that the applications should have been directed to them, and to them only. Private data, among other mandatory information like full name and "ability to pay the rent" (such as proof of income, salary...) should have never been between leaving tenant and prospective tenant. In your case, that means that the leaving tenant should have not know who's taking over the lease, and therefore, not be able to propose a furniture.

The handover, was between the tenant and the agent/owner, and the presence of the new tenant and family is also inappropriate. Probably even somehow illegal. And morally, clearly the mother attempted something heinous. Anyway, what matters now what was signed in the handover between leaving tenant and agent/owner. Comparing that to what was signed when moving in.

That is the only way moving forward for you. Have your son paid that money? (if so, he is very dumb or ignorant). What else is relevant to the situation? Your son must pick up his furniture now, and sell it elsewhere, that is his responsibility and his fault, even if you think he was conned.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
So she has to accept a flat that was not cleaned properly?
I understood omtatsat's issue was not that the new tenant should accept a sub-standard cleaning job but the fact that the bits that were missed during the cleaning were to be done by the mother of the new tenant for CHF 100.-. Which at first glance is a pretty steep price to deal with dust under the bed and a bit of kalk build-up under the sink BUT if omtatsat had engaged a professional cleaner, they normally offer their services with "Abgabe garantie" which means they have the cleaner onsite with all the gubbins to clean whatever is missed and will clean within reason until the property manager is satisfied.

I guess if the son was there without any cleaning materials that couldn't have been done.

Sometimes doing things the cheap way is a false economy.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:45
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,529
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,240 Times in 6,243 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
And we cleaned everything very thoroughly
It's quite strange that you feel able to write this, when you follow it with
Quote:
View Post
we forgot to clean under the bathroom sink
...
My son also forgot to clean the dust away from under his bed.
What definition of 'thoroughly' or 'everything' are you using?

Put simply, you did a terrible job of cleaning the place and are pissed off that for the want of another five minutes' work you lost 100chf. Nobody to blame but yourselves.

If it were me I'd be well pissed off with myself, not anyone else, and would be way too embarrassed to admit to an Internet forum that I can't even perform a simple task like cleaning a small apartment to acceptable standards.

Oh, and if I were taking on an apartment that was left in a substandard state I too might be minded to drop out of verbal agreement to buy the wardrobe. After all, if you can't even clean the place properly there's no telling how dirty the inside of the wardrobe might be, and I would not feel inclined to do you any favours by taking it off your hands.
__________________
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 01.11.2017, 11:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 4,552
Groaned at 492 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 4,099 Times in 1,952 Posts
CorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond reputeCorsebouTheReturn has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
Put simply, you did a terrible job of cleaning the place and are pissed off that for the want of another five minutes' work you lost 100chf. Nobody to blame but yourselves.
.
Allegedly lost 100chf. We don't know if the OP's son paid that amount.
Also, the anger's root cause is not the allegedly failed cleaning, it's about the blackmailing attempt from a third party. That 3rd party which should have not been there, and has nothing to do with that "official procedure", the departure handover. So, which should have never attempted to take money in the first place.

So, while I don't justify the allegedly failed cleaning, the OP has right to blame that woman's behavior. But, should have blamed his son for ignorance and failures of the actual process, and for allowing that situation to happen.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01.11.2017, 12:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,510
Groaned at 979 Times in 688 Posts
Thanked 17,517 Times in 6,865 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Quote:
View Post
There are 2 distinct situations here.

1) The alleged blackmail attempt to "do a favor" for a relatively high sum..
How is it blackmail? She asked for 100chf to clean it herself, or she could have insisted it was re-cleaned, which the OP said he did not have time to do. Failing that, she could have asked the verwaltung to get some professional cleaners in which would have cost considerably more than 100chf. There is no suggestion that she said "Give me 100chf or else...".

To clean it herself is not only an inconvenience she shouldn't have had to deal with, but as the OP's son had removed all of the cleaning products they potentially had to go and buy them themselves and then do the cleaning. That is easily 2 hours overall, for which 100chf seems fair, again considering they shouldn't have to do it in the first place.

Last edited by Chuff; 01.11.2017 at 12:28.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 01.11.2017, 12:23
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,473
Groaned at 283 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 14,808 Times in 4,541 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

Dust under the bed? That's disgusting. A dirty bathroom? That's a major put off. I wonder what else she'll find with time. I wouldn't have taken the wardrobe either since your family couldn't be bothered to keep your side of the contract.


Omtatsat

You of all people should have known the answers you'll be getting on EF. Your family screwed up. We all do at times. I don't see the new tenant being inappropriate at all.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 01.11.2017, 12:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,900
Groaned at 285 Times in 214 Posts
Thanked 17,671 Times in 6,208 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Apartment handover

the scary conclusion of the thread is that the OP's behavior has passed to the next generation
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apartment viewing before handover? szdro Housing in general 11 29.05.2017 21:49
Leaving - Apartment handover notice kayo Leaving Switzerland 24 14.11.2016 10:43
Apartment handover - on a Sunday? Jamie_39 Housing in general 2 22.11.2013 14:48
Apartment handover / final cleaning timing FinnMom Leaving Switzerland 4 10.05.2011 16:33
Apartment handover- admin charges Bshar Housing in general 10 27.02.2007 10:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0