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  #21  
Old 26.11.2017, 21:41
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Who closed the border to the Jews running from fascist, when they were running to save their lives and join their savings?
Who was actually an actual fascist country and part of the actual axis of actual fascist fascists?
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Old 26.11.2017, 21:42
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Yeah, that's great. Except Hungary has a demonstrable history of having fascist sympathies, whereas Switzerland hasn't.
And Switzerland is morally pure as the driven snow. Never accepted gold robbed by the Nazies.
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  #23  
Old 26.11.2017, 21:43
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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And Switzerland is morally pure as the driven snow. Never accepted gold robbed by the Nazies.
Accepting gold is not quite the same as being an actual fascist country run by actual fascists, though, is it?
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Old 26.11.2017, 21:50
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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And Switzerland is morally pure as the driven snow. Never accepted gold robbed by the Nazies.
They did not just "accept" gold, they were in fact receiving that gold as payment for services rendered, i.e. the production on war material. At the same time, Switzerland was also producing for the allies (and US companies were producing for the Germans as well at this time...I posted about this fact on another thread a while back)


So don't spout about clean or not clean. No one was clean during the war, no one is clean today, no one is clean full stop!
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Old 26.11.2017, 21:59
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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In CH, in general, people are on higher salaries. Most would happily grocery shop only here if there was no other alternative, however, we do much cross border shopping because we are lucky enough to be surrounded by countries with cheaper prices. In general, people don't struggle to make ends meet here, full restaurants at any given lunch or dinner time 7 days a week is proof of this.
In short we are lucky enough to have our cake...and eat it.

Just go to Hungary where the gap between rich and poor is off the scale, in general, salaries out of corporate companies are a pitance. Go clothes shopping in Budapest (West End Mall, MOM Park) and you will be shocked to see that many prices are dearer than Geneva and Lausanne for the same items.

As for buildings, you are correct, vast majority are old and have bland exteriors, but the majority will have nice apartments, with underfloor heating...caves (cellars) something no one gets in the UK, on-site concierge service for minor repairs, who also maintain the interior and exterior of the buildings in a clean state. These old buildings were well constructed and are well maintained...which unfortunately very much like a Honda car...will just keep going on and on. Another important point to consider, unlike the rest of Europe and the east, Switzerland never had their major cities destroyed by a war, so 100 year old buildings survive and are maintained, unlike other countries that had to raise their cities from the ashes and construct housing for their people, which then actually begs the question...why was so much crap built post-war in Europe when they had a blank piece of paper?
Well, imagine you (unlike your family, most probably) survive the deadliest war years. A simple and safe block of cement will look pretty decent to you. So that's aestetics. Or lack there of, rather

Cash is another thing, if you have to rebuilt all stuff from scratch, resources are dire. My family still talks of Unra.
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Old 26.11.2017, 22:03
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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And Switzerland is morally pure as the driven snow. Never accepted gold robbed by the Nazies.
It's not just that. While CH accepted funds that people put to safety, when the same people were running away from fascists, the borders were ordered shut and people were returned to face their death.
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Old 26.11.2017, 22:13
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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It's not just that. While CH accepted funds that people put to safety, when the same people were running away from fascists, the borders were ordered shut and people were returned to face their death.
Running away from fascists such as the Hungarians, for example?

Keep trying!
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  #28  
Old 26.11.2017, 23:11
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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In CH, in general, people are on higher salaries.
No they are not - low level professional salaries are comparatively higher than eastern europe, but at management level and higher, salaries are lower in CH than elsewhere.

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Most would happily grocery shop only here if there was no other alternative, however, we do much cross border shopping because we are lucky enough to be surrounded by countries with cheaper prices.
You don't have a good salary if you can't reasonably afford to casually go down the road to the local supermarket. If you are actually travelling to a different country to do your shopping - you are actually on a low income.

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In general, people don't struggle to make ends meet here, full restaurants at any given lunch or dinner time 7 days a week is proof of this.
In short we are lucky enough to have our cake...and eat it.
Yes they do - there is a huge amount of hidden poverty and face-saving regarding money. If you are untrained or not at a reasonable professional level, CH is good for sure relative to working in eastern european countries (but that is changed a lot since 15-20 years ago).

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Just go to Hungary where the gap between rich and poor is off the scale, in general, salaries out of corporate companies are a pitance. Go clothes shopping in Budapest (West End Mall, MOM Park) and you will be shocked to see that many prices are dearer than Geneva and Lausanne for the same items.
That is about an okay comparison - but CH average salaries are not "high". They are actually quite poor, if you have to drive 40km to a different country to get a 1kg of chicken or something. Is that really living? Is that really what could be said to be a life well supported?
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  #29  
Old 26.11.2017, 23:55
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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But, Budapest ist waaaay more beautiful than most of swiss major cities. People there are also more welcoming than the Swiss, who often openly show their attitude to foreigners.
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Been there, hated it.
I quite liked it, as a visitor. Reminded me a bit of Basel, and had an M&S clothes store where I bought a suit, giving in to wife pressure that perhaps I shouldn't be presenting at a large conference in just jeans and t-shirt. (Still did the presentation in cowboy boots though).

But I wouldn't want to live there.
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  #30  
Old 27.11.2017, 00:45
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

But you do not have to live in a concrete block if you look around?
I live in an ex-factory converted into apartments!
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  #31  
Old 27.11.2017, 02:07
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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It's not just that. While CH accepted funds that people put to safety, when the same people were running away from fascists, the borders were ordered shut and people were returned to face their death.
Educate yourself and read up on the Conference of Evian in 1938.

Time for you and many others to get off your high horse.
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  #32  
Old 27.11.2017, 09:10
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Who closed the border to the Jews running from fascist, when they were running to save their lives and join their savings?
The US.

Tom
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  #33  
Old 27.11.2017, 11:35
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

We seem to have moved away from my thread, which is about how dispiriting, cynical and frankly funereal many of the cheerless, aesthetically totalitarian housing blocks are. I was hoping to start a revolution that sees the public executions of town planners and real estate companies, but never mind.

Last edited by DavidRaphael; 27.11.2017 at 12:39.
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Old 27.11.2017, 12:00
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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We seem to have moved away from my thread, which is about how dispiriting, cynical and frankly funereal many of the cheerless, aesthetically totalitarian housing blocks are. I was hoping to start to start a revolution that sees the public executions of town planners and real estate companies, but never mind.
Someone mentioned the war and then it went downhill from there.

Don't mention the war.
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  #35  
Old 27.11.2017, 12:04
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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We seem to have moved away from my thread, which is about how dispiriting, cynical and frankly funereal many of the cheerless, aesthetically totalitarian housing blocks are. I was hoping to start to start a revolution that sees the public executions of town planners and real estate companies, but never mind.
aren't most "cheerless, aesthetically totalitarian housing blocks" built in the 60s/70s/80s? it will only take time until they will all disappear.
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  #36  
Old 27.11.2017, 12:05
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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... miserable-looking blocks of 6, 8 or more apartments crammed together...
They tend to have a colour that some people define as "mushroom" colour. I call it "dry shit" colour simply because it is what it reminds me.
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  #37  
Old 27.11.2017, 12:28
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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But, Budapest ist waaaay more beautiful than most of swiss major cities. People there are also more welcoming than the Swiss, who often openly show their attitude to foreigners.
Zurich an Budapest in the year 1934 next to each other in the same scale:
swiss-housing-paradox-zurich-budapest-1923.jpg
Sources:
http://antiquemap.hu/index.php/budap...m_store=magyar
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&to...8499.23&zoom=6
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Old 27.11.2017, 13:27
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

I hate brutalist architecture and I am not a fan of apartment blocks. That being said, I think CH deals much better with this problem than many other countries.

Germany:





Italy



Brazil:

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Old 27.11.2017, 13:33
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Someone mentioned the war and then it went downhill from there.

Don't mention the war.
I did once, but I think I got away with it!
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  #40  
Old 27.11.2017, 14:57
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

I live in a big brutalist apartment block built into a hill. The view is fair - no mountains, just a wooded hill. That‘s the bad news. Good news is that I have tons of space, big windows, my own washer dryer and about 100 meters sq of storage space. It‘s fairly quiet. i have a big terrace, and access to green space at the top of the hill behind me.

So yeah, it‘s not fabulous, but it works.
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