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  #41  
Old 27.11.2017, 15:03
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

OP,

There are a lot of new projects that don't look similar to commie buildings, with huge terraces and balconies, just 2-3 storeys, gardens at the ground floor, spacious and luminous (as much as the weather allows) rooms, really nice projects overall.

For the right price.

I, for one, love old building with high ceilings, but are hard to come by here. As long as I can stuff in all our books and things, I'm pretty easily pleased. (says she who rented a separate storage room)
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  #42  
Old 27.11.2017, 15:15
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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I hate brutalist architecture and I am not a fan of apartment blocks. That being said, I think CH deals much better with this problem than many other countries.
That comparison is a bit unfair as this kind of conglomeration is quite rare in CH, if it even exists.

With that said I'd like to see some examples of what OP thinks would be better. And how, in his opinion, landlords can be brought to move towards that, at no cost to the public of course.
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  #43  
Old 27.11.2017, 15:30
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

I grew up in one of these, complete with a lift that never worked and when it did it was mostly used as a urinal, the outer, spotty lichen covered cladding started to come off about two years after they were finished, a waste chute at the end of the deck where the rats used to hang out and mug people passing by, cheerless, grey and dismal, especially when it rained and you had water cascading down the walls, inside and outside or even better when it was windy and it was like being on a ship at sea on the top floor. Yes there were playgrounds for the kids, concrete piles with slides down them, but check the slides before you go down as now and then some bugger would put a razor blade in the cracks.
I think that even the ugliest block of flats in Switzerland is far better than the deck access flats in Blackburn, except perhaps those in St. Margrethen.
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  #44  
Old 27.11.2017, 17:56
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

The problem is that the building boom was in the 60s and 70s, just like in italy, which means ugly blocks.
The good thing is that many of those blocks will reach the end of their life-cycle soon so maybe they will build new ones.
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  #45  
Old 27.11.2017, 18:09
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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The problem is that the building boom was in the 60s and 70s, just like in italy, which means ugly blocks.
The good thing is that many of those blocks will reach the end of their life-cycle soon so maybe they will build new ones.
So how come they keep building eye-sores even today?
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  #46  
Old 27.11.2017, 18:15
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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I grew up in one of these, complete with a lift that never worked and when it did it was mostly used as a urinal, the outer, spotty lichen covered cladding started to come off about two years after they were finished, a waste chute at the end of the deck where the rats used to hang out and mug people passing by, cheerless, grey and dismal, especially when it rained and you had water cascading down the walls, inside and outside or even better when it was windy and it was like being on a ship at sea on the top floor. Yes there were playgrounds for the kids, concrete piles with slides down them, but check the slides before you go down as now and then some bugger would put a razor blade in the cracks.
I think that even the ugliest block of flats in Switzerland is far better than the deck access flats in Blackburn, except perhaps those in St. Margrethen.
Looking at those pics makes me think that Blackburn must be twinned with Clydebank...
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  #47  
Old 27.11.2017, 18:16
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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So how come they keep building eye-sores even today?
They build what people want.

It's not just developers. I know people who have designed or had designed their own houses and they're as ugly as hell too.

I guess it's just people have different tastes in different countries.
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  #48  
Old 27.11.2017, 18:47
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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The problem is that the building boom was in the 60s and 70s, just like in italy, which means ugly blocks.
The good thing is that many of those blocks will reach the end of their life-cycle soon so maybe they will build new ones.
Yes, but nobody will ever build in French Renaissance, Classical, Belle Epoque or the Art Nouveau style anymore. Those eras are over.
They'll build more comfortable, energy saving, more resistant, better insulated - glass and concrete big blocks. Not sure it's a huge improvement either, aesthetically...or at least not for everybody. (to me they are)

However, among all sorts of projects and projects there are some which aren't that bad, unless you're very, truly, really pretentious.
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  #49  
Old 27.11.2017, 19:08
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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I live in a big brutalist apartment block built into a hill. The view is fair - no mountains, just a wooded hill. That‘s the bad news. Good news is that I have tons of space, big windows, my own washer dryer and about 100 meters sq of storage space. It‘s fairly quiet. i have a big terrace, and access to green space at the top of the hill behind me.

So yeah, it‘s not fabulous, but it works.
If the trade off was between own washing machine in ugly concrete block vs shared laundry in pretty building, I'd probably pick the washing machine. I'll deal with the ugly concrete a million times before I deal with other people's laundry, if I must
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Old 27.11.2017, 19:12
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Yes, but nobody will ever build in French Renaissance, Classical, Belle Epoque or the Art Nouveau style anymore. Those eras are over.
They'll build more comfortable, energy saving, more resistant, better insulated - glass and concrete big blocks. Not sure it's a huge improvement either, aesthetically...or at least not for everybody. (to me they are)
.
Not true in every country.

Poundbury in the U.K, for example.

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  #51  
Old 27.11.2017, 19:27
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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They build what people want.

It's not just developers. I know people who have designed or had designed their own houses and they're as ugly as hell too.

I guess it's just people have different tastes in different countries.
Do people want no balconies?
https://projekt-ensemble.ch/
No, those two towers are not office but residential.

What the city of Zurich thinks are exceptional examples of their respective epoch and should be protected:
https://www.maps.stadt-zuerich.ch/zu...ate=&drawings=

Examples from each Kreis:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/hbd/de/...baukultur.html

A few examples from the 1960 to 1980 period which were added 2013:
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/hbd/de/...n_anlagen.html
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Old 27.11.2017, 19:45
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

Here in totalitarian Zürich. At least the sky is blue
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I can see the need to protect the integrity of the landscape, but does the housing have to look quite so totalitarian, so penal?

Last edited by omtatsat; 06.12.2017 at 09:52.
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  #53  
Old 27.11.2017, 19:57
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Yes, but nobody will ever build in French Renaissance, Classical, Belle Epoque or the Art Nouveau style anymore. Those eras are over.
Chinese wineries are trying hard to "out-chateau" the French originals...

http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/te...pig-im-Abgang#
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  #54  
Old 27.11.2017, 20:12
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Chinese wineries are trying hard to "out-chateau" the French originals...

http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/te...pig-im-Abgang#
Also in the US you find newly built homes which do not look modern:
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...12_rect/12_zm/

Surprisingly, some US cities have more strict zoning and building rules than Switerland has. On the other hand this mostly applies to the street side facade only.

I actually think that we will see in the future something similar: houses built in a more tradition style. Unfortunately, we are still in a area where some nice and classic houses are torn down and replaced with purely space optimized builds.
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Old 27.11.2017, 20:22
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Do people want no balconies?
https://projekt-ensemble.ch/
No, those two towers are not office but residential.

Don't forget that there's also virtually no private parking for these kinds of projects.
People are supposed to use car-sharing and public transport.

The thing with balconies is that they add tremendous complexity to the building (as I believe to have read). If you can skip them altogether, that's a huge win.
Also, there's a lot less potential for friction between the neighbors because of smoke, noise and bbq.

There was already a trend for loggia-style "inside-balconies", that are fully isolated and can be used as full rooms.
This is just the last consequent step.

Also, it's near the train-tracks. Unless you're a train-buff, you'd get tired of it pretty quickly ;-)

People are supposed to start moving in 2022. We'll see how it works out.
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Old 27.11.2017, 20:31
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Chinese wineries are trying hard to "out-chateau" the French originals...

http://sz-magazin.sueddeutsche.de/te...pig-im-Abgang#
Holy cow. Well, taste is a matter of taste....

In the Grand Traverse area of Michigan we have lots of wineries too, many of them with "châteaus," all less than 25 years old and looking like what Little Johnny thinks a French castle must look like.
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Old 27.11.2017, 20:47
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

Apologies for the tangent, but this reminded me of one of my favorite 'Michigan moments':

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In the Grand Traverse area of Michigan we have lots of wineries too, many of them with "châteaus," all less than 25 years old and looking like what Little Johnny thinks a French castle must look like.
About 25 some years ago, likely when those faux châteaux were being built, the great state of Michigan decided that an innovative way to promote it's wine tourism industry would be to issue a Wines of Michigan 'passport'. The idea was that you'd visit each of the many wineries scattered around the state, get the passport stamped as you indulge in the local grape, once the passport was full then send it in for some trinket or other. The passport helpfully provided wine route suggestions, as in 'X' winery tours in a day.

Brilliant tourism promo, except... how does one get around the great state of Michigan?

By car of course.

Yeah, state sponsored drinking and driving...



Now back to ugly concrete boxes...
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Old 27.11.2017, 20:57
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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The thing with balconies is that they add tremendous complexity to the building (as I believe to have read). If you can skip them altogether, that's a huge win.
Also, there's a lot less potential for friction between the neighbors because of smoke, noise and bbq.

Also, it's near the train-tracks. Unless you're a train-buff, you'd get tired of it pretty quickly ;-)

People are supposed to start moving in 2022. We'll see how it works out.
I do not about the structural complexitz. But the buildings in Chicago normallz have balconies.

The view on the alps is not that bad, most of the rest is industrial. https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.39351.../data=!3m1!1e3
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Old 27.11.2017, 21:02
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

I have a wintergarten as a balcony. It really is a fourth room and even today, I could sit "outside" and bathe in the sun's warmth. I can open the windows so I still have fresh air and yet I never have to worry about my balcony furniture getting wet. Three of the sides are windows that slide open so it's a great contrast to a rather darker apartment. In 8 out of 12 months, I do my entertaining "outside."
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Old 27.11.2017, 21:03
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

Which side is the gents?

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Looks great around here.



Nearest neighbor 1km, can even use the chainsaw on Sundays!

Tom
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