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  #61  
Old 27.11.2017, 21:06
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Which side is the gents?
The red bucket is for the ladies, the gents can water the plants were they wish.
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Old 27.11.2017, 21:20
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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The red bucket is for the ladies, the gents can water the plants were they wish.
Wrong. The red wheelbarrow is for the gals because they produce a wider jet. The bucket is for the blokes, who have better aim.

As meloncollie said, now back to ugly concrete boxes...
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Old 27.11.2017, 21:58
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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As meloncollie said, now back to ugly concrete boxes...
As you wish, but be careful what you wish for.

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Now back to ugly concrete boxes...
Like this one

https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.17758...7i13312!8i6656

If a building ins Switzerland deserves the -Award than this would be certainly on the short list.
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  #64  
Old 27.11.2017, 23:07
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

Just for the record: This thread seems to differentiate between "old and nice" vs "ugly and modern".

I'll be the first to trash Swiss appartment block design. However - that's not because it's modern. Brutalism is btw some 60 years old. Swiss style blocks are just ugly - they optimize the building space within the limits of strict Swiss local building codes - say "how do I make the largest square footage on my plot while keeping the legal minimum distance from the street and the legal max height of the building". You will obviously end up with a concrete box.

That's not modern architecture, it's just ugly. You can build nice and interesting architecture without copying renaissance palaces. Having lived in Singapore, a place with much denser population and the need for massive amounts of flats did I see how you can build ugly boxes or well designed buildings:




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  #65  
Old 27.11.2017, 23:38
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Just for the record: This thread seems to differentiate between "old and nice" vs "ugly and modern".

I'll be the first to trash Swiss appartment block design. However - that's not because it's modern. Brutalism is btw some 60 years old. Swiss style blocks are just ugly - they optimize the building space within the limits of strict Swiss local building codes - say "how do I make the largest square footage on my plot while keeping the legal minimum distance from the street and the legal max height of the building". You will obviously end up with a concrete box.

That's not modern architecture, it's just ugly. You can build nice and interesting architecture without copying renaissance palaces. Having lived in Singapore, a place with much denser population and the need for massive amounts of flats did I see how you can build ugly boxes or well designed buildings:
Nice. The contrast to the building linked to in the post before yours couldn't be starker.

However, the two cases highlight an additional aspect: maintainability and maintenance costs. One reason besides the deserving design for the ugliness of the building linked to in #64 is its poorly kept facade. Invest a day or two in professional cleaning and the moss/algae are done with, giving it at least a semblance of the fresh look of your cases.

This leads to a follow-on question: How much effort (preferably expressed as something like man-hours if possible) is necessary for maintenance? Got some ballpark figures or usable experience?

In comparison, an all-glass facade may need regular cleaning but that may be relatively quickly done thanks to its flat surface where everything is easily reached.
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  #66  
Old 27.11.2017, 23:43
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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As you wish, but be careful what you wish for.



Like this one

https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.17758...7i13312!8i6656

If a building ins Switzerland deserves the -Award than this would be certainly on the short list.
Our infamous eyesore is being taken down, thank doG. I guess even local fans of brutalist architecture found this one waaaaay too brutal.


And in it's place...

A slightly less brutal but still very...erm... concrete box.



I may rail against our Quartier Gestaltungsplan, but at least it safeguards us from the epidemic of uglyconcreteboxitis.
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Old 27.11.2017, 23:47
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Looks great around here.



Nearest neighbor 1km, can even use the chainsaw on Sundays!

Tom
Tom, I used to live in Davesco for 15 years.What is the closed village to this Haus.
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  #68  
Old 27.11.2017, 23:53
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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One reason besides the deserving design for the ugliness of the building linked to in #64 is its poorly kept facade. Invest a day or two in professional cleaning and the moss/algae are done with, giving it at least a semblance of the fresh look of your cases.


That building is ugly as sin and no amount of cleaning would help.

a wrecking ball, maybe.
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  #69  
Old 28.11.2017, 00:45
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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If the trade off was between own washing machine in ugly concrete block vs shared laundry in pretty building, I'd probably pick the washing machine. I'll deal with the ugly concrete a million times before I deal with other people's laundry, if I must
I have to confess that this is one of the things I'll never understand about Switzerland - sharing the washing machine. Luckily we don't have to do that, but still.
A bit off topic, so back to Brutalist ugly concrete blocks of flats.

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Just for the record: This thread seems to differentiate between "old and nice" vs "ugly and modern".

I'll be the first to trash Swiss appartment block design. However - that's not because it's modern. Brutalism is btw some 60 years old. Swiss style blocks are just ugly - they optimize the building space within the limits of strict Swiss local building codes - say "how do I make the largest square footage on my plot while keeping the legal minimum distance from the street and the legal max height of the building". You will obviously end up with a concrete box.

That's not modern architecture, it's just ugly. You can build nice and interesting architecture without copying renaissance palaces. Having lived in Singapore, a place with much denser population and the need for massive amounts of flats did I see how you can build ugly boxes or well designed buildings:
Not sure how you feel about those building but I wouldn't like to live in one of those.
I've seen quite a few projects of blocks that I quite liked, stylistically they are no big deal, but they give a different feeling about living there - more like Southern villas than huge concrete boxes.
Family homes are simply out of the question.
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Old 28.11.2017, 00:52
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They build what people want.

It's not just developers. I know people who have designed or had designed their own.
If I could I'd design a tree house for us. But then, it's probably no fun for the trees to have humans return back to the trees we came from. I seriously think there is going to be a lot more forest living in CH in a couple of decades. I don't think tiny houses will pick up as much as, let's say, in Canada. Although there is a new yurt that just popped up in our town center, it looks all cozy inside, even though it is just a cafe. Hipster nomadic feel works well in marketing, it changed the atmosphere, it is interesting. Mobile.

Housing in general might be aesthetically on and off, but some of the newer architecture is fab here (Epfl, Basel art museum, etc.).

I was at Biltmore some months back which is the largest privately own house in the US. It was hard to believe how authentic it is built to look, so vintage. So I don't believe in the illusion of old = solid or eye pleasing, and newer = automatically poor quality or ugly.

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As you wish, but be careful what you wish for.



Like this one

https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.17758...7i13312!8i6656
Wow, those are some seriously small windows.
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Old 28.11.2017, 01:38
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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As you wish, but be careful what you wish for.



Like this one

https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.17758...7i13312!8i6656

If a building ins Switzerland deserves the -Award than this would be certainly on the short list.
You are right. That fake chalet look bothers me too.
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Old 28.11.2017, 07:46
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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They did not just "accept" gold, they were in fact receiving that gold as payment for services rendered, i.e. the production on war material. At the same time, Switzerland was also producing for the allies (and US companies were producing for the Germans as well at this time...I posted about this fact on another thread a while back)


So don't spout about clean or not clean. No one was clean during the war, no one is clean today, no one is clean full stop!


With the exception of Scotland!
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  #73  
Old 28.11.2017, 12:25
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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You are right. That fake chalet look bothers me too.
I can give you shitty looking buildings all day long
(Not all are shitty looking but examples of the style mentioned by OP)

Alltough name Etzelmatt it is not nearby the other one, but may be inspired (2010ish ?).
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.45952...7i13312!8i6656

one of many "Plattenbau" by Ernst Göhner
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.37167...7i13312!8i6656

one of the bigger projects by Göhner the Webermühle (1975 extended 1981, renovated 2015):
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.45836...7i13312!8i6656

More on Ernst Göhner and how his buildings shaped the look of Switzerland:
https://www.srf.ch/news/regional/aar...tenbausiedlung

http://www.hierundjetzt.ch/de/catalo...hnen_13000157/

https://ausstellungen.gta.arch.ethz....r-und-oelkrise


Interesting is actually the Lochergut (1966):
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.37564...!7i5376!8i2688

It features apartments which go over two stories:
http://www.hausbiografien.arch.ethz....ength(170).pdf
https://www.nzz.ch/lebensart/gesells...an-da-ld.84951
and one of the two remaining public laundries of the city https://de.yelp.ch/biz/leas-waschhau...ce-z%C3%BCrich
But no need for it inhabitants as they have a big laundry room w/o rota and schedule.

The Wittigkofen Quartier (1973) of which only a quarter of the planed houses where built (but when built as planned a lot more green and open space would now exists):
https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.93868.../data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/...story/21768119

The Schwabgut Bümplitz (1966) is also a Plattenbau
https://www.google.ch/maps/@46.94070.../data=!3m1!1e3

https://www.e-periodica.ch/cntmng?pi...:1967:54::1900

Modern examples (not Plattenbau but big boxes):

Neu Oerlikon
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.41147.../data=!3m1!1e3

and Zürich Affoltern
https://www.google.ch/maps/@47.42403.../data=!3m1!1e3

Some more or less inspiring new builds and renovations bz Swiss architects:
https://www.swiss-architects.com/de/...ding_type_id=6

Some insight and "bios" of selected buildings:
http://www.hausbiografien.arch.ethz.ch/
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  #74  
Old 28.11.2017, 14:35
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Not sure how you feel about those building but I wouldn't like to live in one of those.
I have lived in the condominium next door to the second picture for years and liked it (which was a bit more boxy, a bit less futuristic and not designed by Daniel Liebeskind, but therefor a tad bit more affordable).

Yes, I actually enjoyed living in a densely populated condominium. We had not too much living space, but a 50 Meter swimming pool, bbq pits, tennis courts, a gym, some function rooms and a 24hr(!) convenience story within our gate. It's amazingly convenient and given that people are moving more and more to cities will well designed urban projects like those be the future in my eyes. Maybe not as extreme as in Singapore, but surely better than those 6 unit shoe boxes you currently see all over Swiss "Agglos".

Here is the thing: People on here claim that living in a multi unit building has to lead to arguments with the neighbours. I have never experienced or even heard of the same sort of stories you read on here in Singapore although people live much closer to each other. I don't think you can blame that Swiss behaviour on apartment blocks, it's simply cultural. A lot of people in Switzerland seem to love to lecture people, and especially immigrants, how to live their lives....
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Old 28.11.2017, 15:07
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Tom, I used to live in Davesco for 15 years.What is the closed village to this Haus.
Sigirino.

Tom
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Old 28.11.2017, 18:58
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Here is the thing: People on here claim that living in a multi unit building has to lead to arguments with the neighbours. I have never experienced or even heard of the same sort of stories you read on here in Singapore although people live much closer to each other. I don't think you can blame that Swiss behaviour on apartment blocks, it's simply cultural. A lot of people in Switzerland seem to love to lecture people, and especially immigrants, how to live their lives....
This. People grow up in a housing estate, in the midst of tens of thousands around. It can be quiet, respectful and discrete. Maybe it is hard to imagine for some selfrighteous souls. Or, they like to dish out because they themselves got disciplined a lot by others. On the other hand, community usually selfmoderates so if there are a lot of busyboddies, maybe it used to be needed, we don't kow why this self appointed militia exists and who they still try to straighten up in their minds.

Last edited by MusicChick; 28.11.2017 at 21:48.
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Old 28.11.2017, 21:02
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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I don't think you can blame that Swiss behaviour on apartment blocks, it's simply cultural. A lot of people in Switzerland seem to love to lecture people, and especially immigrants, how to live their lives....
Off topic: not always the Swiss...
Last time I was scolded and lectured by a (insert ex-Yugoslavia nationality by the name tag) foreigner She started lecturing me on how young people don't greet the cashiers these days...even though I did say "Gruetzi" but she didn't hear me. Whatever, I don't know how to react in these circumstances so I kept smiling and minded my own business (I hate "scenes", I prefer to let it go). But it was so not her place to lecture customers on how to behave, really, even if it was true, which it wasn't. Absurd.

Maybe it's contagious.

On topic,

Nope, I wouldn't like living in those high-density building complexes if I had a choice, but I suppose it's better than in other places. I am sure some people love it, there are some places like this in Adliswil, not the same architecture but also with all sort of facilities, my friends love it.

Last edited by greenmount; 28.11.2017 at 21:44.
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Old 28.11.2017, 21:29
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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But, Budapest ist waaaay more beautiful than most of swiss major cities. People there are also more welcoming than the Swiss, who often openly show their attitude to foreigners.
Then howcome Hungarian moving to Switzerland ?
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Old 28.11.2017, 22:25
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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We seem to have moved away from my thread, which is about how dispiriting, cynical and frankly funereal many of the cheerless, aesthetically totalitarian housing blocks are. I was hoping to start a revolution that sees the public executions of town planners and real estate companies, but never mind.
And I would support your revolution! I would be very happy if the local Gemeindes would issue some rules regarding housing aesthetics to protect the good old outer styles (with all kind of minergie - comfort inside, of course....)
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Old 28.11.2017, 22:35
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Re: The Swiss Housing Paradox?

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Just for the record: This thread seems to differentiate between "old and nice" vs "ugly and modern".

I'll be the first to trash Swiss appartment block design. However - that's not because it's modern. Brutalism is btw some 60 years old. Swiss style blocks are just ugly - they optimize the building space within the limits of strict Swiss local building codes - say "how do I make the largest square footage on my plot while keeping the legal minimum distance from the street and the legal max height of the building". You will obviously end up with a concrete box.

That's not modern architecture, it's just ugly. You can build nice and interesting architecture without copying renaissance palaces. Having lived in Singapore, a place with much denser population and the need for massive amounts of flats did I see how you can build ugly boxes or well designed buildings:




Loved those buildings. I can see that architecture fitting in many places, especially in megacities, many asian and ME new 'designed' cities, some european financial districts....Nevertheless, somehow, megacity architecture would be strikingly weird in the middle of our green mounts and deep blue lakes. mmm, still prefer the "old and nice" here, at least outside the largest cities,
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