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Old 12.01.2018, 12:50
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consumer protection

Hi, I left a special watch with a jeweller to sell on my behalf. They specialise in this "Esmeralda Bijoutier", Geneva, and as I have been stuck working abroad i only just found out that they went bankrupt 2 years ago.
Can anyone give me any advice how I can recover this watch. Is there a government department or body I can contact?
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Old 12.01.2018, 12:55
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Re: consumer protection

you want to go after a watch you left in a shop 2 years ago?????
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:17
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Re: consumer protection

So I got this correct:
You left a watch more than two years ago (!) with this company which went bankrupt more than two years ago (!) and you only find out about that now?

At least since 9 Jan 2016 the website is defunct !!
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109...esmeralda.com/

https://goo.gl/maps/aV6UgYHCE7y



https://web.archive.org/web/20130924...id=2&Itemid=30

Hmm, the commercial register, Zefix , does not list an "Esmeralda" which would fit this particular business.

Unless you know the name of the business owner it will get complicated.
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:41
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Re: consumer protection

Do you have homeowners insurance? Gan give that a try!
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:47
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Re: consumer protection

Did you give the shop your home address in the UK? If so you should have been notified of the liquidation. If they hadn't sold the watch I'm guessing you should have got the watch back. If they had sold it then went bust I'm pretty sure you will have lost your money.
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:48
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Re: consumer protection

yes dear forum members, I know it was my fault for being complacent......but divorce, country change and a run of bad luck all seemed to take prime place over this. I was stupid and now I am trying to find a solution if possible, rather than just give up on it.
Home insurance won't cover this unless the watch is stolen. Maybe that is what I should do, contact the Swiss police ???
Does anyone know how to proceed ?
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:50
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Re: consumer protection

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yes dear forum members, I know it was my fault for being complacent......but divorce, country change and a run of bad luck all seemed to take prime place over this. I was stupid and now I am trying to find a solution if possible, rather than just give up on it.
Home insurance won't cover this unless the watch is stolen. Maybe that is what I should do, contact the Swiss police ???
Does anyone know how to proceed ?
The actual name of the shop would be a start. Also, how do you know they went bankrupt? Did they contact you or are you just assuming they went bust because you can't find them?
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Old 12.01.2018, 13:54
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Re: consumer protection

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yes dear forum members, I know it was my fault for being complacent......but divorce, country change and a run of bad luck all seemed to take prime place over this. I was stupid and now I am trying to find a solution if possible, rather than just give up on it.
Home insurance won't cover this unless the watch is stolen. Maybe that is what I should do, contact the Swiss police ???
Does anyone know how to proceed ?
Go to the Gemeinde and ask who has been handling the liquidation.

I am not certain about the terms in Switzerland, but normally when a company goes into liquidation you have a certain period in which you can hand in claims towards the company. Two years is a long period so I am afraid you better save your time and forget about this. Also the watch should have been sold long ago to help pay off company debts since nobody claimed it.
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Old 12.01.2018, 14:20
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Re: consumer protection

ok, what make of watch is it? I take it its not a casio. If its one of the better brands do you still have the documents and serial number? assuming is it and you do then (hopefully) the new owner has kept up with the servicing and the manufacturer may be able to help
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Old 12.01.2018, 14:56
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Re: consumer protection

The Handelsblatt, the official commercial information gazette has some entries:

05.04.2016 Deletion from the commercial register:
Quote:
Bijouterie-Horlogerie ESMERALDA Sàrl, en liquidation, à
Genève, CHE-114.725.802 (FOSC du 21.12.2015, p. 0/2553963).
Aucune opposition n'ayant été formée, la société est radiée d'office
conformément à l'art. 159 al. 5 let. a ORC.
Registre journalier no 5624 du 31.03.2016 / CHE-114.725.802 / 02760813
22.12.2015 End of bankruptcy process:
Quote:
1. Débitrice: BIJOUTERIE-HORLOGERIE ESMERALDA SARL,
Boulevard Georges-FAVON 24, 1204 Genève
2. Déclaration de faillite: 26.08.2015
3. Suspension de faillite: 09.12.2015
4. Echéance selon art. 230 al. 2 LP: 01.01.2016
5. Avance de frais: CHF 5'000.00
Indication: La faillite sera clôturée si, dans le délai susmentionné,
les créanciers n'en requièrent pas la liquidation et ne
fournissent pas la sûreté exigée pour les frais qui ne seront pas
couverts par la masse. La réclamation ultérieure d'avances
supplémentaires est réservée.
[Note: Bankruptcy will be terminated if, within the above-mentioned period, the creditors do not require its liquidation and fail to provide the security required for costs not covered by the estate. The subsequent claim for additional advances is reserved.]
6. Remarques: Pour tout renseignement:
Groupe 3 + 41 22 3888903
F20151075
Office des faillites
1208 Genève
21.12.2015 Notification that bankruptcy process has been suspended because of lack of funds:
Quote:
Bijouterie-Horlogerie ESMERALDA Sàrl, en liquidation, à
Genève, CHE-114.725.802 (FOSC du 09.09.2015, p. 0/2364831). La
procédure de faillite a été suspendue faute d'actif par jugement du
Tribunal de première instance du 09.12.2015.
Registre journalier no 20243 du 16.12.2015 / CHE-114.725.802 / 02553963
11.09.2015 Provisional bankruptcy publication
Quote:
1. Débitrice: BIJOUTERIE-HORLOGERIE ESMERALDA SARL,
Boulevard Georges-FAVON 24, 1204 Genève
2. Date de l'ouverture de faillite : 26.08.2015
Indication: La publication concernant le type, la procédure, le
délai de production, etc. se fera à une date ultérieure.
3. Remarques: Pour tout renseignement:
Groupe 3 + 41 22 3888903
F20151075
Office des faillites
1208 Genève
09.09.2015 Change of company status to "in liquidation"
Quote:
Bijouterie-Horlogerie ESMERALDA Sàrl, à Genève, CHE-114.
725.802 (FOSC du 19.05.2014, p. 0/1508773). La société est dissoute
par suite de faillite prononcée par jugement du Tribunal de première
instance du 26.08.2015, avec effet à partir du 26.08.2015 à 14:15. Par
conséquent, sa raison sociale devient: Bijouterie-Horlogerie
ESMERALDA Sàrl, en liquidation.
Registre journalier no 14116 du 04.09.2015 / CHE-114.725.802 / 02364831
Now, I also found the commercial register extract. The company was already near bankruptcy in 2013: https://ge.ch/hrcintapp/externalComp...25.802&lang=FR
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Old 12.01.2018, 20:40
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Go to the Gemeinde and ask who has been handling the liquidation.

I am not certain about the terms in Switzerland, but normally when a company goes into liquidation you have a certain period in which you can hand in claims towards the company. Two years is a long period so I am afraid you better save your time and forget about this. Also the watch should have been sold long ago to help pay off company debts since nobody claimed it.
Thanks Edwin, my thoughts exactly....except that items not owned by the company fall outside this liquidated stock to pay creditors. On another note ....nobody contacted me to inform me of liquidation and bankruptcy.

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ok, what make of watch is it? I take it its not a casio. If its one of the better brands do you still have the documents and serial number? assuming is it and you do then (hopefully) the new owner has kept up with the servicing and the manufacturer may be able to help
Hi, thank you for the input. The watch is a Parmigiani Fleurie (Toric ) Chronometer in rose gold. Origional price around 30,000 euros. I was asking 12,000 Swiss francs.
I have the "depot Vent" receipt, copies of papers and my original purchase invoice.
I think it is a don Quixote quest now sadly.

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The Handelsblatt, the official commercial information gazette has some entries:

05.04.2016 Deletion from the commercial register:


22.12.2015 End of bankruptcy process:


21.12.2015 Notification that bankruptcy process has been suspended because of lack of funds:


11.09.2015 Provisional bankruptcy publication


09.09.2015 Change of company status to "in liquidation"


Now, I also found the commercial register extract. The company was already near bankruptcy in 2013: https://ge.ch/hrcintapp/externalComp...25.802&lang=FR
Wow, thank you for all that information. I had only one bit of all that extract. The watch was in a depot vent status and normally should not represent stock for that Bijouterie.
My problem is where do i start a recovery procedure. I am not in Switzerland now....but in sunny Sweden

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Go to the Gemeinde and ask who has been handling the liquidation.

I am not certain about the terms in Switzerland, but normally when a company goes into liquidation you have a certain period in which you can hand in claims towards the company. Two years is a long period so I am afraid you better save your time and forget about this. Also the watch should have been sold long ago to help pay off company debts since nobody claimed it.
Thank you Edwin, I will try that path and see if it leads to any possible solution to this.
I will google Gemeinde to see how to contact them.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.01.2018 at 22:24. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 12.01.2018, 20:54
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Re: consumer protection

why not look on sites like this: https://www.chrono24.ch/parmigianifl...c--mod2248.htm
and see if your watch is for sale there.

then of course prove it's yours.
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Old 12.01.2018, 21:17
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Re: consumer protection

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Thanks Edwin, my thoughts exactly....except that items not owned by the company fall outside this liquidated stock to pay creditors. On another note ....nobody contacted me to inform me of liquidation and bankruptcy.
Nobody will contact you (unless you owed money towards the company), and bankruptcy's are published after which there is a certain time to make a claim when the company owes you something. When we had a business we always read these papers to see if any customer of us was in it so we would not miss out if there was anything left after tax and bank got their share. Now without a business I like 99,999% of all people absolutely not follow such and thus this could happen to me also.
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Old 13.01.2018, 09:56
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Re: consumer protection

Moneyhouse.ch send a regular digest of new companies, bankruptcies and closures to subscribers (Free).

The one time a company went bankrupt owing me money, the receiver wrote to me. But that was a UK company where they have a duty to contact all creditors (and then charge the company £100 for a £50 debt...).
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Old 14.01.2018, 01:00
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Re: consumer protection

The big question is, did the watch get sold?

a) it did get sold. In this case OP is a creditor. Since bankruptcy proceeding got suspended due to lack of funds, the full amount is lost.

b) the watch did not get sold. Quite unlikely I guess but wonders happen (so they say). In this case OP retains ownership (though not possession). The watch should not have been part of the Konkursmasse, the remaining equity, but separated and stored in a safe place for the owner to retrieve.

Certainly after some time it will become the state's property but I doubt this happens after two years already. Five or ten years seems much more likely.

So OP, talk to the office de faillites in Geneva and find out what would have happened to your watch had it not been sold by the company by the time of bankruptcy. In such a case it's probably sitting in some kind of archive or safe waiting for you, try to have it retrieved. Failing that it probably has been sold by the bankrupt company and the money lost.
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Old 14.01.2018, 13:22
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Re: consumer protection

Urs Max, thank you for that information, it is a viable thread for me to follow. I have sent them an email now and I will follow it up with a phone call tomorrow.

Many thanks to all of you on this forum for your help and support. It is nice to know that the world is full of decent people.

Andrew
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