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  #41  
Old 08.08.2018, 13:09
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

This from May 2013, so not a new rule by any means.

"English Forum was never intended to be a selling site and the Market Place areas were designed to be an opportunity where active members can support each other with bargains and product sales.

We have decided that in order to encourage full participation in the site, we will impose a standard of "continued constructive participation" in order to allow the privilege of FREE marketplace posting to continue and to allow the site to become more active and less defined by its "sellers" versus "non-sellers" dynamic that we see today. This will largely be a subjective measure, but as a rough guide, Mods will expect to see at least as many non-MP posts as MP posts within a given period. And as always, Mods reserve the right to delete "fluff" posts which clearly only serve to increase post counts.

We will also continue to implement and tighten the wording on bumping such that items can only be advertised once and can only be "bumped" by the original poster if there is new information to add to the original post eg a price reduction.

Of course, for commercial sellers who do not wish to participate in the community, the option of paid advertising remains open."

https://www.englishforum.ch/announce...onditions.html

People weren't happy then either, but that was the decision the mods made and that's the way things are. If you don't like it there are plenty of other ways to advertise your stuff elsewhere.

Perhaps it would have been better to have them posted in the Free Stuff and Items for Sale section as well so it was completely clear. Just having them under Forum Support means most people probably haven't even seen them.
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  #42  
Old 08.08.2018, 14:48
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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I've not been on ricardo for a long time. Does anybody complain there that they can't have a decent discussion about how to register in Switzerland?
I don't see how this is relevant to my comment. I was commenting on lack of replies to the OP's original question. I think OP's question is reasonable. Why not allow people to advertise for free stuff? Whether the community agrees on relaxing the rules is another issue.


Your comment does not make sense for another reason: Ricardo is not a forum with different topics, it is a site for selling things so of course there can't be any discussions about work permits there.
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Old 08.08.2018, 14:49
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

Yes, Medea, rulz is rulz.

As I understood jmhattingh's post, he had jumped the hoop correctly and thereafter repeatedly posted in "Free Stuff", and all was fine, until he got told off (even though he had plainly fulfilled the rules). And... he is now asking whether others feel that perhaps the time has come to relax these rules, at least as far as giving Things away for free is concerned.

Some, like you Medea, don't think so, and some really like the 10-post rule. Moreover some (as presumably the mod who told jmhattingh off) even feel that the 10-post rule is itself insufficient.

I, on the other hand, and some others, would welcome it if we could get over the whole fluff-hunting thing, and just let people get on with it and post nice ads of things they're willing to give away. I'd even go a step further and add: and things they're willing to sell.

For as long as the rulz stand, forum users have to abide by them. Fair enough. Rulz can change, though. Therefore, I welcome it each time someone takes the trouble to call this particular rule (which I feel to be not merely superfluous but expressly contrary to the purported aim of the forum) into question. So thanks, jmhattingh, for doing so here, very politely.

Thanks, too, for having generously given away your things to forum members on several occasions. Please do so again. You are not in contravention of anything, since you have fulfilled the 10-post rule and, in opening this thread, have contributed a constructive contribution to the Forum. Thank you.
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  #44  
Old 09.08.2018, 12:56
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

Let OP post free stuff . Why not ? I really don't see what the big deal is.

I looked back at their posting history and while the last posts have only been in the marketplace, OP isn't spamming or advertising their business. On average you could say they post an item for free or for sale 1-2 times per year . That's been since 2014 or so ? ( I don't remember )

It's in the market place anyway. People have to specifically go there, and click on free stuff to see the posting.

It might be different if everything was being funneled into one forum and such postings were annoying other members, or if there was some sort of technical problem caused by these types of marketplace postings.

Is it that if EF allows people to only sell things or give things away, then they aren't making revenue somehow ?? Traffic revenue ? Ad revenue ?

Some people mentioned that it's not in the spirit of the community, but others argued that it actually is. I too, believe it's part of an online community.

The fear that EF will turn into another Tutti or Ricardo is ridiculous. By posting something for sale or for free, that's not prohibiting other members from enjoying the rest of the forum, or going to events. The majority of forum members are here, because they know it's a place to learn , get advice, and socialize .
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  #45  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:27
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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The majority of forum members are here, because they know it's a place to learn , get advice, and socialize .
Yes. And some do this by posting on the forum, others by meeting up for supper, and yet others by… meeting people to whom they sell or give away things, or from whom they buy or collect for free.

Local, which owns the English Forum, makes it's money happily, through ads, no matter what anyone's motivation is, in posting.

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Let OP post free stuff . Why not ? I really don't see what the big deal is.
THANK you! Yes. I really don't see how any user can suffer any disadvantage at all by other users freely being allowed to post small ads to give away, or to sell, their possessions.
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  #46  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:43
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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Yes. And some do this by posting on the forum, others by meeting up for supper, and yet others by… meeting people to whom they sell or give away things, or from whom they buy or collect for free.

Local, which owns the English Forum, makes it's money happily, through ads, no matter what anyone's motivation is, in posting.


THANK you! Yes. I really don't see how any user can suffer any disadvantage at all by other users freely being allowed to post small ads to give away, or to sell, their possessions.
Some people need reminding. Some people simply don't know?

Oh, look, Mark liked cappuccino
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  #47  
Old 09.08.2018, 17:52
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

This thread explains that the founder of the English Forum was a man named Mark. Apparently, he set it up (in 2005?) and ran it with his own efforts and money, and was also helped to fund it with donations. After Mark died, his brother found running the English Forum to be too big a task, and in 2009 Local became the owner.
https://www.englishforum.ch/announce...ownership.html

Therefore, the English Forum originally, and for its first 4 years had a personal, private beginning (and blessings be on the others who built it and made it happen, with Mark, way back then), and at the time was held together with sense of being a club or collective of "likeminded" people whose interests and sharing were worth protecting and worth keeping exclusive, and of whom many, in those days, went on to meet up personally in Real Life.

However, for the past 9 or so years and currently, the English Forum is just another branch of a commercial business. Local makes its revenue from the English Forum with external ads. It cannot be threatened by and does not need protecting from users who post offering to give away, or to sell, something.

Last edited by doropfiz; 09.08.2018 at 18:10.
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  #48  
Old 09.08.2018, 20:11
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

Oh bugger, Bugger red pebbled me because I reminded the crowd of Mark.

Gotta put my socks in the washer now. Hate to smell of pee.
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  #49  
Old 09.08.2018, 21:20
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

All this talk of messy streets I find quite shocking; we never have that in Basel. That's because we have a place to dump our rubbish: it's called Allschwil.

This joke is public domain. Feel free to use it in the jokes thread (I never even knew there was such a thing) to increase your posts count. In fact, here's another:

Q. How many Aargauers does it take to change a lightbulb?

A. Just one, but he's got to put down the pitchfork first.
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Old 09.08.2018, 21:46
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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...However, for the past 9 or so years and currently, the English Forum is just another branch of a commercial business. Local makes its revenue from the English Forum with external ads. It cannot be threatened by and does not need protecting from users who post offering to give away, or to sell, something.
Who said anything about threats to the owners or needing protection from users?

Advertising rules have evolved over time based on observations of user patterns and feedback from long-time members - not just based on who owned the Forum at the time or who was a moderator. Users are welcome to read some of the threads linked below if they're interested in how things have evolved.

You'll never please 100% of the people 100% of the time. Some users think Marketplace should disappear entirely or that the rules should be more strict (100 posts! A year of membership!). Others think there should be no rules for Marketplace. Many seem to think the rules are we have are okay-ish since they're sort of a middle ground. This has been the case for a long time and is unlikely to change.

Some links to prior discussions:
https://www.englishforum.ch/announce...own-peril.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/announce...onditions.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-su...ket-place.html

https://www.englishforum.ch/forum-su...structure.html
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Old 10.08.2018, 03:21
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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However, for the past 9 or so years and currently, the English Forum is just another branch of a commercial business. Local makes its revenue from the English Forum with external ads. It cannot be threatened by and does not need protecting from users who post offering to give away, or to sell, something.
If you think that the Local in any way influences our policies on Marketplace rules you're very much mistaken.

I still consider myself something of a newbie here, but I can say with absolute certainty that they've never once tried to influence how the forum works, in regard to marketplace and more general moderation decisions or policy, in the last five years since I've been a mod here.
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Old 10.08.2018, 06:58
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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If you think that the Local in any way influences our policies on Marketplace rules you're very much mistaken.

I still consider myself something of a newbie here, but I can say with absolute certainty that they've never once tried to influence how the forum works, in regard to marketplace and more general moderation decisions or policy, in the last five years since I've been a mod here.
So that is the reason why there is no consistency to policy and rules.
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  #53  
Old 10.08.2018, 07:35
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

The OP's question was completely reasonable, it's an ollldddd discussion and imo there is no logical reason why people should not be allowed access to the free and sale sections immediately upon joining. Forcing people to make 10 posts, knowing they are doing it only to get market access, serves zero purpose except to annoy everyone. The free and sale sections are a great resource for all expats and should be encouraged to be more active.

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So that is the reason why there is no consistency to policy and rules.
Basically yes, the forum is subject to the whims of the wildly varying characters of the mods who run it.
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Old 10.08.2018, 07:42
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

There are other places to advertise stuff for free to a much wider audience without much hassle. I don't offer things on EF anymore.

In my experience people are very grateful to acquire an item for free but often wonder why something is free when it is not broken or damaged. I am glad if someone is willing to take the time and effort to pick something up and happy not to dispose what could be useful to someone else.

I am often horrified to see what people are dumping in the disposal bin at the recycling centre. It is not free to dispose stuff and if the item is not broken why dump it? The employees at the recycling centre are not allowed to set useful items to the side though from time to time I have spotted an item that was not placed in the bin and if someone wanted to have it they could take it.
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Old 10.08.2018, 08:12
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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It cannot be threatened by and does not need protecting from users who post offering to give away, or to sell, something.
You see no threat. I do. If members are allowed free rein in the Marketplace it'll become a dumping ground. Other members will get fed up with it and not visit EF in future. Less members using the site means less people seeing the Local's ads so less reason to keep the site going. End of EF, bye, bye.

Yes, rules evolve to take in changing situations. Whether this needs to be looked at again is up to the mods/admin to decide. But I'm happy with how things work at the moment.

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There are other places to advertise stuff for free to a much wider audience without much hassle. I don't offer things on EF anymore.

In my experience people are very grateful to acquire an item for free but often wonder why something is free when it is not broken or damaged. I am glad if someone is willing to take the time and effort to pick something up and happy not to dispose what could be useful to someone else.

I am often horrified to see what people are dumping in the disposal bin at the recycling centre. It is not free to dispose stuff and if the item is not broken why dump it? The employees at the recycling centre are not allowed to set useful items to the side though from time to time I have spotted an item that was not placed in the bin and if someone wanted to have it they could take it.
Mrs. Doolittle, some people even make a living out of rescuing stuff from disposal bins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_..._(TV_programme)
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  #56  
Old 10.08.2018, 08:47
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

More informaton about this creativeness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upcycling

https://www.upcyclethat.com/
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  #57  
Old 11.08.2018, 12:20
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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If you think that the Local in any way influences our policies on Marketplace rules you're very much mistaken.

I still consider myself something of a newbie here, but I can say with absolute certainty that they've never once tried to influence how the forum works, in regard to marketplace and more general moderation decisions or policy, in the last five years since I've been a mod here.
No, Ace, I didn't mean that Local influences the policies on the Marketplace. I meant that the English Forum is part of a business which is running just fine. And the Local is, in that business sense "happy" for any click at all, including all the ones which go to the Marketplace. More Marketplace, more clicks. Just fine.

That's why, unlike you, Medea,
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You see no threat. I do. If members are allowed free rein in the Marketplace it'll become a dumping ground. Other members will get fed up with it and not visit EF in future. Less members using the site means less people seeing the Local's ads so less reason to keep the site going. End of EF, bye, bye.
I don't think that the English Forum is in any danger from personal ads, nor under threat in any way.

Although I hear your fear, I genuinely don't see how a forum could, in fact, ever become a dumping ground. Users who don't like to look at the Marketplace can just skip over it, just the same as other users who prefer not to read about politics outside of Switzerland, or don't see child-care questions as relevant to them, skip over those sub-fora or threads.

Since this particular forum has many users who do post contributions in many non-Marketplace threads, and probably even more who are not members and do not post here but who lurk and thereby help to fill the Local's coffers by clicking on something, I figure EF ain't going down the drain.
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  #58  
Old 11.08.2018, 12:46
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

I doubt very much that any copany would pay for clicks on the EF market-place.
These clicks used to be counted and billed accordingly. I also doubt that changed much. While that is easy, it would be difficult to which company a click on the EF market place would be accounted to.

But that's all far too pragmatic .... off I go.
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Old 11.08.2018, 13:52
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

I meant that anything at all that drives traffic onto EF has the potential for a user to click on another thing (i.e. not the Marketplace ad) which the Local has positioned on the website, and it is that traffic that generates click-income.

Also, the counts of traffic on the EF (no matter which parts of the website anyone clicks on) are what the Local uses to motivate companies to use its websites to place paid ads.
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Old Yesterday, 14:06
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Re: Forum rule issue: no free offers without other discussion contributions

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I meant that anything at all that drives traffic onto EF has the potential for a user to click on another thing (i.e. not the Marketplace ad) which the Local has positioned on the website, and it is that traffic that generates click-income.

Also, the counts of traffic on the EF (no matter which parts of the website anyone clicks on) are what the Local uses to motivate companies to use its websites to place paid ads.
I would have thought that most regular users don't see any advertising on EF (or barely any other website nowadays), if they have any sense.
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