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Old 10.08.2018, 16:39
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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- The funds were transferred SIX months ago and I asked them before the transfer took place which documents would be required to prove their provenance then and they said "nothing apart from a simple Schenkungsvertrag (gift/donation contract) between the parties"
- I asked again days after I received the transfer and the bank again said "nothing apart from the donation contract unless we get further questions from legal", which apparently wasn't the case as I didn't hear back from my client advisor
- I then got a credit approved for a property we ended up losing against a higher bidder. No red flag was raised by requesting a mortage then.
- ... fast forward six months, I present them with a new property and the request comes. I'm not hiding anything so I have no trouble complying and providing any information. Just why did they wait until now when I'm trying to put an offer for a place? is it competent from the bank to work on "emergency mode" rather than having done their due diligence when they received the funds? and why am I not getting a clear list of documents I need to provide them with besides the donation contract? If this is standard due diligence there should be a standard process to follow including required documentation. I cannot seem to get a clear answer from them.
Inconvenient and a pain in the arse as it seems, this is probably out of the bank's control. Since FINMA came in at the beginning of the year, we've had to deal with an upturn in paper chasing and general stalling and pointless arguments of "well you didn't ask the client for it before, why now?" The rules are constantly changing and the regulatory and compliance departments seem to be churning out hurdles on a weekly basis.

We're all in the same boat. The path of least resistance is just to suck it up. If you're unhappy with the bloke's treatment of you or his attitude just move banks. You might get a more touchy, feely service elsewhere with smiles and platitudes but you'll still have to cough up the paperwork.
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  #42  
Old 10.08.2018, 16:44
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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Having said all this: You too need to trust your banker. So do it like me: Change him. Either the person within the bank or the bank all together.

AH! And did you tell him you don't like the way he puts his questions and ask him what he needs to know all this for? Because blunt questions only make life easier when the answers and/or reactions are blunt too. A rant on EF is not blunt. It's public but chances are good, the banker is not on EF.
Thinking about it with a cooler head I'm really bothered by how inconsistently they've handled the donation/gift topic and that, from where I stand, they're getting on the way of me putting an offer on a place I really like simply because they didn't think of asking all these questions earlier - again keep in mind they had previously approved a credit a few months back without any issues and that the money has been in their books for half a year already.

And yes I was also bothered by the phrasing. Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not. I can take "we need to fulfill xyz anti-corruption requirements" or similar. How he phrased it is just poor customer service, sorry.

Curley, you're spot on. Trust is gone and I'm seriously considering taking my business elsewhere.
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Old 10.08.2018, 16:46
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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Inconvenient and a pain in the arse as it seems, this is probably out of the bank's control. Since FINMA came in at the beginning of the year, we've had to deal with an upturn in paper chasing and general stalling and pointless arguments of "well you didn't ask the client for it before, why now?" The rules are constantly changing and the regulatory and compliance departments seem to be churning out hurdles on a weekly basis.

We're all in the same boat. The path of least resistance is just to suck it up. If you're unhappy with the bloke's treatment of you or his attitude just move banks. You might get a more touchy, feely service elsewhere with smiles and platitudes but you'll still have to cough up the paperwork.
Thanks Sandgrounderfor the insight!
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  #44  
Old 10.08.2018, 16:56
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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I fully understand your beef with the bank, even if I don't think it's worth getting wound up over. I just can't help wondering whether you might have received a more sympathetic hearing here if you'd chosen a less aggressive, polarizing thread title. And the hopeful question mark at the end doesn't really lenify it much.
Honestly speaking, I'm no longer expecting sympathetic responses when I come to the EF, it's more of a reality check ... compared to when I first started following EF 8-9 years ago (was a lurker before I registered), the tone has most definitely soured - with some notable exceptions of course.
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  #45  
Old 10.08.2018, 17:02
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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And yes I was also bothered by the phrasing. Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not. I can take "we need to fulfill xyz anti-corruption requirements" or similar. How he phrased it is just poor customer service, sorry.
If it was a stranger asking my response would be "I'm ain't gonna say nothin". And wait for my old english teacher to start spinning in his grave fast enough to run the turbine I recently installed.
With the money generated through the sale of bad grammar based power I soon won't need a mortgage.

Or if you still want the loan and do not want to reveal to the world the source of your power generating capabilities you could just tell them that "that" money didn't come from illegal sources, as you slide an envelope of proper criminal money across the table.

I think it is time for the weekend.
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  #46  
Old 10.08.2018, 17:25
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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I think it is time for the weekend.
Which is why I am sitting at my desk drinking a (company supplied) beer or two before heading home.

Tom
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Old 10.08.2018, 17:52
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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...Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not.
No, but I was asked in my naturalization interview (also done by a complete stranger) whether I am a prostitute, and whether my husband is a pimp.
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Old 10.08.2018, 17:57
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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  #49  
Old 10.08.2018, 18:15
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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. I cannot seem to get a clear answer from them.



Unfortunately, you have a very clear answer, they do not want or no longer want your business.


sometimes banks do this when they have too many existing mortgages on their hands and don't want to take any more on.
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Old 10.08.2018, 18:53
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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Thinking about it with a cooler head I'm really bothered by how inconsistently they've handled the donation/gift topic and that, from where I stand, they're getting on the way of me putting an offer on a place I really like simply because they didn't think of asking all these questions earlier - again keep in mind they had previously approved a credit a few months back without any issues and that the money has been in their books for half a year already.

And yes I was also bothered by the phrasing. Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not. I can take "we need to fulfill xyz anti-corruption requirements" or similar. How he phrased it is just poor customer service, sorry.

Curley, you're spot on. Trust is gone and I'm seriously considering taking my business elsewhere.
As much as I love to be "spot on", you only took the part of my post you liked.
You wrote << "Oh we see you got a transfer from your father who lives in (insert developing non-EU country here)... can you prove how he saved for / obtained the $$ because country x is defined as a sensitive country and we need proof that this doesn't come from money laundering or drugs>>. There is no personal accusation in this. I can't see any. If I were asked this question I would say "yes, no problem" or "what exactly do you need regarding this" and provide it. The law is there, they asked a question, gave you the reasons they need to ask them and what they need to settle the subject.

There are clear regulations now. If they give you a mortgage you will definitely show "in the books". What is the bank to say to the monitoring body? "Naa, we didn't want to hurt her feelings so we did not follow rule no. xx, we don't mind being judged unprofessional and will pay the fine from our own profits" ?!

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Honestly speaking, I'm no longer expecting sympathetic responses when I come to the EF, it's more of a reality check .....
Reality checks are super. They take you from emotional to rational. And let's face it, you had a business meeting with the bank, about a business deal. Getting emotional about it is .... weird.
Yes, if you don't have a good rapport with this banker I still say you should exchange him. This is true with any long-term business connection.
The next one - if he does his job properly - will still ask you the same questions though.

And there go my plus points, ahhh well. As Ato said: Time for the week-end.
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Old 10.08.2018, 19:07
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not.
Nope, but we were asked that recently when my daughter and I (both of us Swiss) wanted to deposit a check from her Canadian grandmother's estate!

(how did she get the money, what did your grandfather who died in 1967 do for a living, etc.)

Tom
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Old 10.08.2018, 19:55
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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...because they didn't think of asking all these questions earlier - again keep in mind they had previously approved a credit a few months back without any issues and that the money has been in their books for half a year already.
Money laundering checks are an on going think. It does not have to relate a single transaction or even a series of transactions. You received money from a high risk source and your next move was to do the classic laundering trick - put it into property, you compound that by trying to force a decision... all new red flags warranting further investigation.... That is how these things work.

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And yes I was also bothered by the phrasing.
Were you both speaking in your native languages? Have you ever had such an interview before?

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Curley, you're spot on. Trust is gone and I'm seriously considering taking my business elsewhere.
A word of advice, before you do make sure you have satisfied your current bank's requests in respect of money laundering... Because if you are leaving and taking money out that is under investigation they may simply decide to freeze the account and notify the authorities.
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Old 10.08.2018, 20:07
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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A word of advice, before you do make sure you have satisfied your current bank's requests in respect of money laundering... Because if you are leaving and taking money out that is under investigation they may simply decide to freeze the account and notify the authorities.
Really? I wanted to empty my account in 10 CHF notes and escape with suitcases worth of swissies over the alps ... you're crushing my dream!!

I think it's fair to ask the bank precisely which documents they need so I don't spend weeks fetching them one by one and how they're going to handle confidential information from a foreign citizen who does not live in CH and who isn't their customer (i.e. my father). No clear response to that so far.

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Nope, but we were asked that recently when my daughter and I (both of us Swiss) wanted to deposit a check from her Canadian grandmother's estate!

(how did she get the money, what did your grandfather who died in 1967 do for a living, etc.)

Tom
Haha... reminds me of the long checkboxed question list one has to answer to get a US visa: are you a terrorist? are you engaged in the production of weapons of mass destruction?... the list went on!
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Old 11.08.2018, 10:03
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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I think it's fair to ask the bank precisely which documents they need so I don't spend weeks fetching them one by one and how they're going to handle confidential information from a foreign citizen who does not live in CH and who isn't their customer (i.e. my father). No clear response to that so far.
There is a general list but no precise list, as one answer may lead to a lot of new questions. Having to go through KYC processes at work almost on a daily basis, I have seen that one question triggers several others and others .....

So yes, there is a general one for applying for a bank loan but you may be way past that because of the question on the source of funds.
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Old 11.08.2018, 10:30
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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I think it's fair to ask the bank precisely which documents they need so I don't spend weeks fetching them one by one and how they're going to handle confidential information from a foreign citizen who does not live in CH and who isn't their customer (i.e. my father). No clear response to that so far.
Yes by all means keep digging you'll soon get there - accounts frozen.
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Old 12.08.2018, 12:48
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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Yes by all means keep digging you'll soon get there - accounts frozen.
The AML / CTF / KYC / anti-financial-crime kaboodle amounts to a general prohibition on commerce. Or at least, an enormously wasteful drag on commerce, amounting to near prohibition in many cases. It is about attempted control of everything by the US and their tawdry sidekicks.

It also amounts to submission to the failing Anglo Axis by vassal states. When a bank employee tells you proudly that they are wasting your time, and failing to carry out your orders, because Switzerland "complies with international financial regulations", what they are actually saying is (i) Switzerland ceased being a Sovereign state and is owned by the US; (ii) every single Swiss person allowing this to happen is a Quisling, doubly so me the smug bank employee, triply so my Quisling boss; (iii) transactions between Swiss insitutions denominated in Swiss francs now happen by permission of the US only.

Criticism of the legislation is deemed a "risk factor", so the thing conveniently criminalises criticism of itself. Add to this the joy taken by fellow travellers such as Jim2007 above. What would happen if you gave the school bully a special uniform and gave him control over access to the lunch hall?

If ways emerge to get things done without requiring the cooperation of obstructive entities, might people choose such ways instead? So it is economic suicide by an entire sector.

Around a decade ago, a key advance was made with the invention of bitcoin. The use of permissionless digital assets is only going to move in one direction. This direction is not in the Quislings' favour. And it is not in the lunch hall monitors' favour.

"Accounts frozen" LOL. Sidelining in progress.
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Old 12.08.2018, 18:44
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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And yes I was also bothered by the phrasing. Would any of you like a stranger directly asking you if your father is involved in illegal activities just like that? I bet not. I can take "we need to fulfill xyz anti-corruption requirements" or similar. How he phrased it is just poor customer service, sorry.
Happens to me all the time, actually. I’m American. I have to submit paperwork to the “Financial Crimes Enforcement Network” every year, just because I made the unforgivable choice to live abroad...

And get over it already. The guy figured he was being nice by helping you to understand why the bank requires that particular control. What he meant was “drug dealers and others whom we are prohibited from doing business with often use means like this to hide the source of their financial transactions. Therefore, we are legally required to verify the source of transactions that trigger our risk criteria framework, which we can’t disclose to you because then such criminals could use it to game the system. Something has changed between your last request and now, either in our framework or in your profile, and that has triggered this request.” It just happens that he figured you’d be a reasonable person and he didn’t need to explain it as he would to his children.

His bad.
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Old 12.08.2018, 21:01
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Re: Douche bank advisor?

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The AML / CTF / KYC / anti-financial-crime kaboodle amounts to a general prohibition on commerce. Or at least, an enormously wasteful drag on commerce, amounting to near prohibition in many cases. It is about attempted control of everything by the US and their tawdry sidekicks.

It also amounts to submission to the failing Anglo Axis by vassal states. When a bank employee tells you proudly that they are wasting your time, and failing to carry out your orders, because Switzerland "complies with international financial regulations", what they are actually saying is (i) Switzerland ceased being a Sovereign state and is owned by the US; (ii) every single Swiss person allowing this to happen is a Quisling, doubly so me the smug bank employee, triply so my Quisling boss; (iii) transactions between Swiss insitutions denominated in Swiss francs now happen by permission of the US only.

Criticism of the legislation is deemed a "risk factor", so the thing conveniently criminalises criticism of itself. Add to this the joy taken by fellow travellers such as Jim2007 above. What would happen if you gave the school bully a special uniform and gave him control over access to the lunch hall?

If ways emerge to get things done without requiring the cooperation of obstructive entities, might people choose such ways instead? So it is economic suicide by an entire sector.

Around a decade ago, a key advance was made with the invention of bitcoin. The use of permissionless digital assets is only going to move in one direction. This direction is not in the Quislings' favour. And it is not in the lunch hall monitors' favour.

"Accounts frozen" LOL. Sidelining in progress.
Believe me there was - and still is - a lot of criticism when Mr. Widmer-Schlumpf caved to the extend she did.

You can say about direct voting what you want - I can not remember something good came out when the government went around the popular vote. Unfortunately there are cases it can do that.

Many dual citizen friends of mine have given up their American citizenship. Not because they are criminals but because they just can't be arsed no longer. (They did give up the US one though, not the Swiss )
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