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  #61  
Old 22.12.2018, 20:47
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Yes great if you want to give up your 120K job for a 80K job.
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Again, no facts whatsoever that back up your statement. Cheers.
Throughout the year I engaged with only 3 applications above 100K, though below 120K. On the contrary, speaking of a budget below 100K, about 10 times the money was put upfront on the first call to save our time and effort, 2 times I went through the interviews only to hear an offer of ~80K + shares. Of course I sent about a 100 applications but most of them fell through the cracks and I would never know what was the budget.
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  #62  
Old 22.12.2018, 20:49
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Yes - great for investors but not so great for current shareholders! And the lower share price renders the banks(notably CS and JB) as potential takeover targets. If that occurs, expect further redundancies to take place.
TBH can't think why anyone would want to invest in, or take over a Bank. Banks require huge gearing to make any acceptable profit, it just needs a slight mishap as in 2008 & they are all toast.
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  #63  
Old 22.12.2018, 21:23
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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TBH can't think why anyone would want to invest in, or take over a Bank. Banks require huge gearing to make any acceptable profit, it just needs a slight mishap as in 2008 & they are all toast.

Is that white toast or wholemeal ?




PS i am fairly pissed by now
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  #64  
Old 06.01.2019, 05:56
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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TBH can't think why anyone would want to invest in, or take over a Bank. Banks require huge gearing to make any acceptable profit, it just needs a slight mishap as in 2008 & they are all toast.
Well, let's take history as an example... RBS comes to mind. Takeover banks to hide losses as "acquisition expenses". It happens and has happened far too frequently. Sad but true... RBS being the most egregious offender
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  #65  
Old 02.02.2019, 15:38
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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People are just getting more ruthless and its a race downwards. everyone tries to get everything as cheap as possible, not just labour, so all quality goes out the window. its sad, but its not just in CH.
Completely agree.
And I'd better not add anything to this.
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  #66  
Old 02.02.2019, 15:41
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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This is, in my opinion, the direct result of the strengthening of the CHF with the catalyst being the SNB abondoning the PEG/CAP of 1.20 vs the EUR and the general downward pressure on wages specially within the IT sector in CH where competing labour forces from neighboring countries are giving the locals a good run for their money.

The new guys from across the border and beyond are being blindfolded into accepting jobs where they won’t be able to sustain a good standard of living but they accept it because it a slight improvement on the salaries in their home countries (20-30% premium is good enough) and they have a theoretical upside if they move jobs (usually doesn’t materialize in the short to medium term)

In the meantime, the guys in Switzerland are being squeezed out of their existing jobs through “juniorisation” or redundancies where they get replaced by their cheaper sometimes more qualified EU counter parts and are forced to take new roles somewhere else with lower salaries.

It’s a race to the bottom and as wages get squeezed down so will everything else as you can’t sustain high goods, services and asset prices without affecting the affordability of such things. The bottom here being a Nash equilibrium state where the premium offered to EU migrants compared to their home countries is just about enough to get them to move here and maintain 80-100% of their standard of living.
Welcome to the EU-like salary deflation effect.
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  #67  
Old 02.02.2019, 18:36
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Welcome to the EU-like salary deflation effect.
When a rich country signs a free movement agreement with a group of much poorer countries, why is anyone surprised that salaries will fall. The people who often complain the most are originally from the richer EU countries who came to CH for a pay rise..
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  #68  
Old 10.02.2019, 21:09
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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When a rich country signs a free movement agreement with a group of much poorer countries, why is anyone surprised that salaries will fall. The people who often complain the most are originally from the richer EU countries who came to CH for a pay rise..

Maybe because the locals of the both richer and poorer countries were promised they will be better off, whereas we all know it is not the case.

The "dream" of free circulation of labor, capitals and goods is nothing more than a neomercantilist system that translates into destroyed welfare, (en)forced migration, delocalisation, and export, export and more export.

And reality tells that salaries ripoffs started with less qualified jobs first (and yes, people do complain).
Now it is just hitting the higher layers, the more qualified people, and will keep going until it the whole thing will burst.
A moment, which may be closer then we think.
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  #69  
Old 11.02.2019, 06:14
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Maybe because the locals of the both richer and poorer countries were promised they will be better off, whereas we all know it is not the case.

The "dream" of free circulation of labor, capitals and goods is nothing more than a neomercantilist system that translates into destroyed welfare, (en)forced migration, delocalisation, and export, export and more export.

And reality tells that salaries ripoffs started with less qualified jobs first (and yes, people do complain).
Now it is just hitting the higher layers, the more qualified people, and will keep going until it the whole thing will burst.
A moment, which may be closer then we think.
Moving all the production to China (and India) might also have something to do with the current situation...it's funny how you see the common market as a problem while in reality it has delayed some really nasty effects of aggressive delocalisation and relocation.

Last edited by greenmount; 11.02.2019 at 06:32.
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  #70  
Old 11.02.2019, 11:10
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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The "dream" of free circulation of labor, capitals and goods is nothing more than a neomercantilist system.
"Mercantilism was an economic theory and practice, dominant in Europe from the 16th to the 18th century, that promoted governmental regulation of a nation's economy for the purpose of augmenting state power at the expense of rival national powers."

Or to keep it simple: Mercantilism is the exact opposite of free movement of labour or a common market...
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  #71  
Old 11.02.2019, 12:25
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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When a rich country signs a free movement agreement with a group of much poorer countries, why is anyone surprised that salaries will fall. The people who often complain the most are originally from the richer EU countries who came to CH for a pay rise..
not only are they surprised, they will also try to prove that immigration doesn't reduce salaries! there are some studies that show this.
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  #72  
Old 11.02.2019, 12:33
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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"Mercantilism was an economic theory and practice, dominant in Europe from the 16th to the 18th century, that promoted governmental regulation of a nation's economy for the purpose of augmenting state power at the expense of rival national powers."

Or to keep it simple: Mercantilism is the exact opposite of free movement of labour or a common market...

Still, calling it neomercantilism makes you look like an intellectual
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  #73  
Old 11.02.2019, 15:43
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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"Mercantilism was an economic theory and practice, dominant in Europe from the 16th to the 18th century, that promoted governmental regulation of a nation's economy for the purpose of augmenting state power at the expense of rival national powers."

Or to keep it simple: Mercantilism is the exact opposite of free movement of labour or a common market...
The text continues with additional quotes, as:
"Mercantilists were by no means focused on the average standard of living of the population as a whole. Thus the repression of wages by imposing government control was considered by them to be a way of lowering the costs of exports, creating a surplus of exports over imports"

Export, export and more export.

It sounds ugly and as a matter of fact it is, for some more for than others of course.
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  #74  
Old 11.02.2019, 15:45
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Moving all the production to China (and India) might also have something to do with the current situation...it's funny how you see the common market as a problem while in reality it has delayed some really nasty effects of aggressive delocalisation and relocation.
I am genuinely interested to understand what nasty effects were mitigated by the single market configuration.
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  #75  
Old 11.02.2019, 17:07
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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Export, export and more export.
So your argument is that a country like Switzerland is trying to import as many workers as possible to boost manufacturing… because the Swiss government considers only the size of the economy and there the exports as an indication of the political power? And all of that is centrally steered at the expense of the Swiss worker?
That does not meet my view on reality and I dont think many political leaders think that way… The notable exception is Donald Trump, but he also thinks that the future of energy is coal…
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  #76  
Old 11.02.2019, 17:18
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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I am genuinely interested to understand what nasty effects were mitigated by the single market configuration.
Well, since when are we open to facts when we talk about immigration?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuF1oUDSXw
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  #77  
Old 12.02.2019, 11:33
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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I am genuinely interested to understand what nasty effects were mitigated by the single market configuration.
And I am pretty sure you're not interested in my answer unless it supports your views.

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Well, since when are we open to facts when we talk about immigration?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuF1oUDSXw

In a nutshell yes, but "only David Attenborough is interested in facts".....brilliant.

Lol, I should post it one more time in the Brexit threads, although for the reason stated above I know it won't make any difference.
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  #78  
Old 13.02.2019, 23:59
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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So your argument is that a country like Switzerland is trying to import as many workers as possible to boost manufacturing… because the Swiss government considers only the size of the economy and there the exports as an indication of the political power? And all of that is centrally steered at the expense of the Swiss worker?
That does not meet my view on reality and I dont think many political leaders think that way… The notable exception is Donald Trump, but he also thinks that the future of energy is coal…
My argument it is that throughout Europe policies are implemented which push down salaries, all salaries.
With the caveat that whilst people on lower wages already feel the bite (in Switzerland, let alone elsewhere), higher salaries suffer less; for the moment, but as we can see in this thread, the wave started to hit everybody.
And this is done at the expense of *all* workers.
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  #79  
Old 14.02.2019, 00:01
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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And I am pretty sure you're not interested in my answer unless it supports your views.
This sort of answer really speaks for itself
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  #80  
Old 14.02.2019, 10:57
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Re: Salary rip offs...

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When a rich country signs a free movement agreement with a group of much poorer countries, why is anyone surprised that salaries will fall.
This. I remember the big blahblah at the time - oh no, there won't be any wage dumping or race to the bottom. Uhm sure, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you have rich country A signing such an agreement with less rich or even poor countries B, C and D, that salaries will inevitably go down over time. That statement back then was just pure naivety. Or BS, depending on how you want to look at it.

That said, complete isolation probably wouldn't have worked either. Was there really any viable alternative 20 years ago? I'm not sure.

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The people who often complain the most are originally from the richer EU countries who came to CH for a pay rise..
Also true
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