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Old 14.01.2020, 11:42
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Re: gender inequality

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If you cross any border where-ever in the world, even when only wanting to go shopping in Germany for an hour they can ask for them.
Have never been asked by the Swiss authorities though, that's why I asked. (in all fairness I haven't travelled without my OH in the last couple of years so maybe rules have changed)
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Old 14.01.2020, 11:48
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Have never been asked by the Swiss authorities though, that's why I asked. (in all fairness I haven't travelled without my OH in the last couple of years so maybe rules have changed)
Me either.

Even had toddler-meltdown at security and nobody asked if he was in fact mine and I wasn't wrenching him away to a life of kidnapped hell. Although at that moment I could happily have yelled through gritted teeth, "HERE!! KEEP HIM!! AND GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!" and stormed off.
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  #43  
Old 14.01.2020, 12:31
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Re: gender inequality

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I've adopted another approach. My wife has access to all my accounts and can clean me out. She's the only one of us with access to my business account (She handles all the admin). But after 30 years of marriage, we're kind of fond of each other, so I don't feel too unsafe.
Good for you! Men can also suffer from economic abuse too although it is almost always women that suffer. After 30 years you should be safe though (congrats!). It's one of my biggest niggles that tax refunds are only transferred into one account for married couples.
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Old 14.01.2020, 12:41
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Re: gender inequality

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It's one of my biggest niggles that tax refunds are only transferred into one account for married couples.
It's transferred to the account you provide to the authorities. If you provide only your joint account, it will go in there. If you provide your single account, it will go there.

Happy to have solved one of your "biggest niggles". I can go home now...
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Old 14.01.2020, 12:45
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Re: gender inequality

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No, it wasn't - that is what he said. She answered that she was the breadwinner and that their Swiss father was in his own home. This was all communicated in fluent high German. Although the border guard switched to Swiss German eventually...she provided the necessary paperwork.

The paperwork is not the problem, it was the "breadwinner" statement.
Just out of curiousity: What exactly did he say? I cannot come up with commonly used German term for breadwinner… The dictionary says "Ernährer" but I really doubt a border guard would say that...
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Old 14.01.2020, 12:50
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Re: gender inequality

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Does the customs officer have any means of proving who's signature is on the paper ?
The paper should be notarized and apostillaed, so yes.

Tom
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Old 14.01.2020, 12:58
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Re: gender inequality

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Just out of curiousity: What exactly did he say? I cannot come up with commonly used German term for breadwinner… The dictionary says "Ernährer" but I really doubt a border guard would say that...
How about Hauptverdiener?

https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Hauptverdiener

But I see your point. I suppose not even the tax office use that word if they can avoid it.
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Old 14.01.2020, 13:03
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Re: gender inequality

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The paper should be notarized and apostillaed, so yes.

Tom
Yes. But when I was getting it, the lawyer and notary who took care of it for me (for a travelling family member) said themselves that it's the 1st time somebody has requested that service of them. And people here travel alot. A lot a lot.

And then, nobody checked the documents at the airport either. Maybe that has changed now, 2 years later?
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Old 14.01.2020, 13:24
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Re: gender inequality

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I've adopted another approach. My wife has access to all my accounts and can clean me out. She's the only one of us with access to my business account (She handles all the admin). But after 30 years of marriage, we're kind of fond of each other, so I don't feel too unsafe.
Yes, this is my husband's approach as well, but for us, it's 25 years.
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Old 14.01.2020, 13:32
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Re: gender inequality

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How about Hauptverdiener?

https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Hauptverdiener

But I see your point. I suppose not even the tax office use that word if they can avoid it.
It seems easier in French than Hauptverdienner. My people insisted on teaching me Je suis la cheffe de famille, meaning I am the main breadwinner (fem.), which at first sounded awkward and still kinda seems just semantics but whatever. The single income household doesn't even show up in it.
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Old 14.01.2020, 13:33
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Re: gender inequality

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Just out of curiousity: What exactly did he say? I cannot come up with commonly used German term for breadwinner… The dictionary says "Ernährer" but I really doubt a border guard would say that...
Verdiener, i.e. "the earner" ... in layman's term, "breadwinner/head of the household"

I guess you've had luck with border guards? It is their job not to be the most welcoming bunch on the planet & is usually a perfect one for the alpha types, so I'm not surprised at all. Besides, we live in a country where it isn't financially viable for mothers to work, so the prejudice is actually understood.
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Old 14.01.2020, 13:41
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Re: gender inequality

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Verdiener, i.e. "the earner" ... in layman's term, "breadwinner/head of the household"

I guess you've had luck with border guards? It is their job not to be the most welcoming bunch on the planet & usually a perfect one for the alpha types, so I'm not surprised at all. Besides, we live in a country where it isn't financially viable for mothers to work, so the prejudice is actually understood.
Looking back through the thread, not many people share your experience of the border guards asking about who earns the money, to be fair.

From "alpha types" at the border, I imagine the US offers some fierce competition, or at least it has been the case when I've had to try to persuade them to actually let me in for a holiday . The gormless apes at border in the UK aren't much better, either, and I'm a UK citizen.

Being a working mum in any country is not easy, and I'm not talking about whether you get stellar childcare for peanuts cost, flexible time or whatever utopia we would all wish for but from a point of view of having to juggle it all whatever you do.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:02
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Re: gender inequality

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From "alpha types" at the border, I imagine the US offers some fierce competition, or at least it has been the case when I've had to try to persuade them to actually let me in for a holiday . The gormless apes at border in the UK aren't much better, either, and I'm a UK citizen.

Being a working mum in any country is not easy, and I'm not talking about whether you get stellar childcare for peanuts cost, flexible time or whatever utopia we would all wish for but from a point of view of having to juggle it all whatever you do.
US border guards are a different story all together, not sure why you have to bring that up since this thread is about Switzerland.

In this country, childcare can easily exceed the salary of a working mother, which is why many choose not to work and why the prejudice might be more frequently made that the male earns the bucks.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:11
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Re: gender inequality

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US border guards are a different story all together, not sure why you have to bring that up since this thread is about Switzerland.
Because you can't single out Switzerland for having poor border guards without at least comparing them to their counterparts elsewhere.

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In this country, childcare can easily exceed the salary of a working mother, which is why many choose not to work and why the prejudice might be more frequently made that the male earns the bucks.
Most couples with kids in childcare pay for it out of a joint pot. Yes, it's expensive but it's not subsidised to the same extent by tax payers' money in the same way it is in countries such as the Scandinavian countries, for example.

You either pay loads of tax and get stellar childcare for peanuts or you reduce your taxes but have to fork out for it yourself. Society can't have it both ways.

After 3 or 4 years of childcare the child then goes to school anyway so you save on that. Lunch / after-school care is nowhere near as expensive.

It's always frustrating that people only see it from such a narrow bandwidth of vision - enjoying the lovely low taxation then moan that they have to fork out for services they need.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:11
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Re: gender inequality

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Verdiener, i.e. "the earner" ... in layman's term, "breadwinner/head of the household"

I guess you've had luck with border guards? It is their job not to be the most welcoming bunch on the planet & is usually a perfect one for the alpha types, so I'm not surprised at all. Besides, we live in a country where it isn't financially viable for mothers to work, so the prejudice is actually understood.
I do have buddies in the navy, swat and reg cops and not all are clear alpha, tbh.

Since we EEs get questioned at any borders really and are used to it - I have to say that the UK, CA and US border officers have been the nicest guys ever, pointing me to places to visit and giving me tips for restos, gyms and theaters. I think the way one comes accross and some empathy for their role do go a long way.

What bugs me a little is that when you take somebody out, the waiters here cannot believe that a girl would actually want to do that.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:24
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Re: gender inequality

I remember vaguely a story a year or two ago seen in the newspaper, where the Bern tax authority refused to refund the income tax to the account of a wife, asking for the husband's account. The wife filed an appeal. I don't remember exactly what happened after. It seemed that the authorities apologized. It was not that they do not refund to wives, it's that the refund account should be (possibly jointly) under the name of the "identifying person" of the declaration, and in reality the "identifying person" of a family has almost always been the husband. They also have changed the system afterwards so that the refund can be made to account under any name included in the declaration.

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Old 14.01.2020, 14:38
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Re: gender inequality

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You either pay loads of tax and get stellar childcare for peanuts or you reduce your taxes but have to fork out for it yourself. Society can't have it both ways.

It's always frustrating that people only see it from such a narrow bandwidth of vision - enjoying the lovely low taxation then moan that they have to fork out for services they need.
Do you think it is reasonable that 5300 CHF per month is the normal childcare cost for two children? That's a good portion of a well paid salary, far more than any taxable amount. Many women opt out of working due to the high cost of childcare and therefore take 4-5 years off of work to raise their children until they are in normal school. After they are in regular school, they have to pay 1100 per month for lunch and after school care. Not to mention how hard it is for them to be hired back into the workplace after taking a few years off.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:43
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Re: gender inequality

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Do you think it is reasonable that 5300 CHF per month is the normal childcare cost for two children? That's a good portion of a well paid salary, far more than any taxable amount. Many women opt out of working due to the high cost of childcare and therefore take 4-5 years off of work to raise their children until they are in normal school. After they are in regular school, they have to pay 1100 per month for lunch and after school care. Not to mention how hard it is for them to be hired back into the workplace after taking a few years off.

My colleague has 2 girls, works 80%, one day per week from home. Husband the same, 2 days daycare and one day granny. Works out well for them.
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:45
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Re: gender inequality

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My colleague has 2 girls, works 80%, one day per week from home. Husband the same, 2 days daycare and one day granny. Works out well for them.
That is indeed a very nice solution, but not one that most can do...especially for many expat families who do not have family nearby to help out.

My colleague was allowed to work 80% the first 6 months after her second child's birth, now she is forced to return to 100% since they cannot hire anyone else to take over those additional responsibilities. Her husband also has to work full time ...
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Old 14.01.2020, 14:51
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Re: gender inequality

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That is indeed a very nice solution, but not one that most can do...especially for many expat families who do not have family nearby to help out.

My colleague was allowed to work 80% the first 6 months after her second child's birth, now she is forced to return to 100% since they cannot hire anyone else to take over those additional responsibilities. Her husband also has to work full time ...

Correct, but that is only one day per week, so 3 days in Kita which lowers the bill a lot. Sometimes you have to be creative to have your cake and eat it.
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