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  #281  
Old 20.03.2020, 12:53
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Which is not what you want from a biological weapon… you want a very fast transmission, a very quick outbreak and an as high as possible death rate.
Why?
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  #282  
Old 20.03.2020, 13:09
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Why?
You won't the people out (dead preferably) and all their infrastructure up and running to be neatly taken over.
Remember the neutron bomb?

I wonder sometimes why that one never is mentioned anymore as nobody can make me believe, they really gave up on it. Unless it proved to be "faulty" after all.
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  #283  
Old 20.03.2020, 13:14
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Well, yes, blaming it on a country very much is. That viruses exist and that they mutate is not exactly news. We knew that it has happened before many more times than the three you count and that it is just a matter of time till it will happen again. Sars, Mers, swine flu, Ebola to name a few.
1. Blaming the country where the mutation happened is rather senseless. Given population numbers, life standards and climate is it most of the times going to be either Africa or Asia anyways.
2. If you know that it is coming one day should you have a plan in place. Which is why Obama had a dedicated pandemic team working for that exact case in the white house. Too bad Trump fired them two years ago. Europe seems to have relied far too heavily on our otherwise leading health care systems… they simply cannot cope with this case. And the Asians, not just China but also HK, Taiwan, Singapore and others had the best response. Not because they are smarter, but because they had two or three epidemics in the last two decades… so the plans were ready and executed well.

But maybe thats just me and we should all fall back to racism and finger pointing. Because that typically saves lives… right?
China infected the world and lied about it, stop making it like they're a victim.
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  #284  
Old 20.03.2020, 13:16
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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You won't the people out (dead preferably) and all their infrastructure up and running to be neatly taken over.
Remember the neutron bomb?

I wonder sometimes why that one never is mentioned anymore as nobody can make me believe, they really gave up on it. Unless it proved to be "faulty" after all.
Reagan found that there was to much pressure from his own population and foreign governments, also no nation was allowing to station them on their grounds outside the US, which caused him to officially stop the program and existing weapons were dismantled over the years.

Surely they have progressed on knowledge and all info is still there, they could easily produce a new batch if wanted.
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  #285  
Old 20.03.2020, 14:19
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Well, yes, blaming it on a country very much is. That viruses exist and that they mutate is not exactly news. We knew that it has happened before many more times than the three you count and that it is just a matter of time till it will happen again. Sars, Mers, swine flu, Ebola to name a few.
1. Blaming the country where the mutation happened is rather senseless. Given population numbers, life standards and climate is it most of the times going to be either Africa or Asia anyways.
2. If you know that it is coming one day should you have a plan in place. Which is why Obama had a dedicated pandemic team working for that exact case in the white house. Too bad Trump fired them two years ago. Europe seems to have relied far too heavily on our otherwise leading health care systems… they simply cannot cope with this case. And the Asians, not just China but also HK, Taiwan, Singapore and others had the best response. Not because they are smarter, but because they had two or three epidemics in the last two decades… so the plans were ready and executed well.

But maybe thats just me and we should all fall back to racism and finger pointing. Because that typically saves lives… right?
We don't know yet where the virus has come from, however certainly NOT racist to question the Chinese practices which may have caused this virus. As I said, the origin of the virus is not what I'm annoyed about now, rather the subsequent Chinese State cover up that has resulted in this pandemic.

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Are we also going to punish Austria for what happened in Ischgl?

Besides that, punishing China will achieve the opposite of what we want to achieve I'd say, it will only cause them to completely shut up next time. They already have been much more open than with Sars, sometimes one should not look to much at the past but try to work out a solution that is best for future.
Those that knew of the virus in Ischgl but didn't close the resort should definitely be held to account! Regarding China, I agree, direct sanctions are not the answer, however indirect action should be taken. The world should look at being less reliant and China and Chinese manufactured goods. It's a pipe dream though.
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  #286  
Old 20.03.2020, 14:26
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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As I said, the origin of the virus is not what I'm annoyed about now, rather the subsequent Chinese State cover up that has resulted in this pandemic.
You know what causes a pandemic? This.
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  #287  
Old 20.03.2020, 16:48
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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You know what causes a pandemic? This.
The Chinese state suppressing and jailing people who tried to warn the world about the virus probably didn't help matters much either.
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  #288  
Old 20.03.2020, 17:17
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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You know what causes a pandemic? This.
so dumb
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  #289  
Old 20.03.2020, 17:51
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

The latter part of this thread is becoming extreme interesting, and racist, and again interesting. Full of unconviced rumors, Trump-style blames, and claims without any facts.

I'm here to remind you that there is still no scientific proof of the virus origin. As for hiding numbers, I guess you meant publicly admitting there are not enough test kits and mild symptoms won't get tested isn't hiding numbers at all. Given the fact that the corona outbreak in China was in January and now is the end of March -- i.e. During the 2 months the gvnt learnt nothing from China. Similar as you, they watched the story, laughed, then left it behind.

Blame China as much as you want, and try your best to deny the fact that ultimately it's the arrogance which brought disaster. But again the question: why nobody blamed the USA for H1N1?

FYI, worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from 2009 pandemic swine flu (H1N1).

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...ine-flu-770496

Last edited by appcell; 20.03.2020 at 18:03.
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  #290  
Old 20.03.2020, 18:13
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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The latter part of this thread is becoming extreme interesting, and racist, and again interesting. Full of unconviced rumors, Trump-style blames, and claims without any facts.

I'm here to remind you that there is still no scientific proof of the virus origin. As for hiding numbers, I guess you meant publicly admitting there are not enough test kits and mild symptoms won't get tested isn't hiding numbers at all. Given the fact that the corona outbreak in China was in January and now is the end of March -- i.e. During the 2 months the gvnt learnt nothing from China. Similar as you, they watched the story, laughed, then left it behind.

Blame China as much as you want, and try your best to deny the fact that ultimately it's the arrogance which brought disaster. But again the question: why nobody blamed the USA for H1N1?

FYI, worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from 2009 pandemic swine flu (H1N1).

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...ine-flu-770496
The virus came from China.
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  #291  
Old 20.03.2020, 19:06
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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The virus came from China.
Oh by the way do you know HIV is first recorded in the USA? Does it mean HIV came from USA?

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS#History
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  #292  
Old 20.03.2020, 19:16
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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As far as I'm concerned they can stay at home for a long while longer! When all this is over, the China needs to be held accountable for what they've unleashed upon the world.

Either the virus originated in a lab in Wuhan experimenting with highly pathogenic microorganisms, or it originated at live animal market in Hubei thanks to Chinese barbaric husbandry.

The origin however could be forgiven were it not for the response afterwards. China covered up the outbreak for weeks, lied about its severity, lied about numbers affected, prevented the WHO from entering Wuhan, lied to the WHO about the virus' ability for human-to-human transmission, attacked smeared and threatened those in China that tried to warn of the danger and "disappeared" journalists and critics of the Party's response.

The world needs to have a long hard look at China when this is all over.
So you have hijacked a thread about Chinese tourism to deliver a load of anti-Chinese bile. China is not alone in attempting to suppress the disclosure of inconvenient truths. There are always vested interests which don't welcome destabilisation and possible overreaction to an event, and hopes that the whole thing will just blow over. Look at the examples of Assange and the Boeing whistle-blowers and many others to understand that truth suppression and smearing is not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon. Look at the West's own reaction to the epidemic as an example of lying low and hoping things will go away.

China's reaction, once it became clear that this was for real, has been exemplary. Building huge hospital complexes in a matter of days, decoding the virus genome within a matter of weeks and putting that data in the public domain to support the development of tests and vaccine development, ordering quarantine measures on a scale only now being considered in the West etc. etc.

And, as for what they eat. Really? So you expect it to be kosher ?

Anyway, it is about Chinese tourists and, once this is over, I hope they feel welcome here again.
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  #293  
Old 20.03.2020, 20:08
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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China's reaction, once it became clear that this was for real, has been exemplary. Building huge hospital complexes in a matter of days, decoding the virus genome within a matter of weeks and putting that data in the public domain to support the development of tests and vaccine development, ordering quarantine measures on a scale only now being considered in the West etc. etc.
Their reaction was to hide it and punish those who spoke out against it until it became too late.
Impressive as it was what they did after that, it was after the fact.
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  #294  
Old 20.03.2020, 20:29
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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So you have hijacked a thread about Chinese tourism to deliver a load of anti-Chinese bile. China is not alone in attempting to suppress the disclosure of inconvenient truths. There are always vested interests which don't welcome destabilisation and possible overreaction to an event, and hopes that the whole thing will just blow over. Look at the examples of Assange and the Boeing whistle-blowers and many others to understand that truth suppression and smearing is not an exclusively Chinese phenomenon. Look at the West's own reaction to the epidemic as an example of lying low and hoping things will go away.

China's reaction, once it became clear that this was for real, has been exemplary. Building huge hospital complexes in a matter of days, decoding the virus genome within a matter of weeks and putting that data in the public domain to support the development of tests and vaccine development, ordering quarantine measures on a scale only now being considered in the West etc. etc.

And, as for what they eat. Really? So you expect it to be kosher ?

Anyway, it is about Chinese tourists and, once this is over, I hope they feel welcome here again.
Blah blah blah racist blah blah blah tu quoque blah blah blah wonderful China

When you have an example of a Western state sponsored cover up resulting in thousands of deaths and rising then come back. What China have done is worse than Chernobyl.

P.s. it's not cool to accuse someone of racism for legitimate arguments against a state sponsored cover up

Last edited by TonyClifton; 20.03.2020 at 20:45.
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  #295  
Old 20.03.2020, 20:43
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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The latter part of this thread is becoming extreme interesting, and racist, and again interesting. Full of unconviced rumors, Trump-style blames, and claims without any facts.

I'm here to remind you that there is still no scientific proof of the virus origin. As for hiding numbers, I guess you meant publicly admitting there are not enough test kits and mild symptoms won't get tested isn't hiding numbers at all. Given the fact that the corona outbreak in China was in January and now is the end of March -- i.e. During the 2 months the gvnt learnt nothing from China. Similar as you, they watched the story, laughed, then left it behind.

Blame China as much as you want, and try your best to deny the fact that ultimately it's the arrogance which brought disaster. But again the question: why nobody blamed the USA for H1N1?

FYI, worldwide, up to 575,400 people died from 2009 pandemic swine flu (H1N1).

https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-...ine-flu-770496
"Unconvinced Rumors".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...mber-rz055qjnj
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152
https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-e...718a5faab.html


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You know what causes a pandemic? This.
You're right, someone should weld them into their houses!
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  #296  
Old 20.03.2020, 21:25
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

The Chinese tourism sector is quoted as being a 300 billion business. And as of right now, it's more or less dead in the water.

Probably half of that was spent outside China. That money is going to miss somewhere.

With international travel being banned for weeks or possibly months, it's not unrealistic to predict that most airlines will be bankrupt in May, at the latest.

Swiss has grounded all but 6 of their jets right now.

EasyJet has AFAIK grounded their complete fleet.

Let that sink in for a moment.

While the masses of Chinese tourists might be annoying, the total demise - no, make that the annihilation - of the tourism sector in many countries (15% of the GDP in Spain, for example) is nothing short of an apocalypse.

The only reason this doesn't really make the news is that it's already only the tip of the gargantuan iceberg of an economic depression that comes closer every day the shops are closed and people can't work.

As guilty as China might be for letting this thing escape from their only BSL4 lab in Wuhan, in the grand scheme of things it does not even matter anymore.
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Old 20.03.2020, 21:34
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

Meh. People lash out when they're afraid. Maybe showing a little tolerance to each other would help. I know it's not the EF way, but these are special times.
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  #298  
Old 20.03.2020, 21:44
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Their reaction was to hide it and punish those who spoke out against it until it became too late.
Impressive as it was what they did after that, it was after the fact.
And when they finally warned us we did not want to listen, so hardly made a diff at all anyway....
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  #299  
Old 20.03.2020, 21:54
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Quick death contradicts wide-spread, that is one of the main reasons why Sars, Mers, Ebola and all such failed to become pandemics but remained small-scale.
FWIW That's not the reason SARS or MERS failed.
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Old 20.03.2020, 22:16
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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FWIW That's not the reason SARS or MERS failed.
It failed because it was not contagious before symptoms and because symptoms were severe and not just things like a slight cough, from the virus point of view they simply failed.
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