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  #301  
Old 20.03.2020, 22:44
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Their reaction was to hide it and punish those who spoke out against it until it became too late.
Impressive as it was what they did after that, it was after the fact.
And how does that differ from Mr. Trumps administration. Did you here him go for a journalist that asked a question he didn’t want to hear.
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  #302  
Old 21.03.2020, 10:26
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

There is a rather big difference between the Chinese reaction (clearly wrong at the start at local levels), but once they understood what was going on and it wasn't on local/low level but got to higher up's, quickly changed to full disclosure and working with WHO, releasing test kits (which the US didn't accept for pride reasons, or to make more money for their own companies - go figure!) world wide, and now sending massive amounts of aid oversees to help other countries vs. the US, doing nothing, calling it "a chinese virus", doing nothing again, doing silly stunts like the "muslim.. errr I mean China ban" (probably Trump and his buddies never heard of indirect flights..) instead of a sane approach like mandatory quarantine. Oh, and stealing of test kits from Italy, which were donated there by China. What a great policy! 10/10!

Economy over people has worked extremely well (sarcasm), while people over economy - what China did - hurt the economy in the short run massively, but they got over it within a few weeks. Their economy is back to close to full capacity, no more domestic infections, and their quarantine program for arriving passengers apparently is working at 100% to contain it.

But then we seem to get some racist people here who just can't understand that an efficient autocratic system like China (which definitely has it's flaws) seems to be better prepared for an epidemic like this than the headless chicken reaction in the west. We should have copied the Chinese (or Singaporean, but I guess that wouldn't have run well with "data protection" and all the like) approach from Day 1 onwards, the virus would be completely wiped out by now! Or at least - if done with some delay - being on a massive retreat.

But by doing nothing, calling it a democrat Hoax (US), keeping everything open till it's too late (Situation in Europa and the US already passed Wuhan levels!), it's too late now for anything but a proper shutdown, with still tenthousands if not hundredthousands dying at the very least
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  #303  
Old 21.03.2020, 11:06
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

I thought they could only drink alcohol if they are over 21 ? Are these people all over 21 or is there a different law here?
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  #304  
Old 21.03.2020, 12:01
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Blah blah blah racist blah blah blah tu quoque blah blah blah wonderful China

When you have an example of a Western state sponsored cover up resulting in thousands of deaths and rising then come back. What China have done is worse than Chernobyl.

P.s. it's not cool to accuse someone of racism for legitimate arguments against a state sponsored cover up

1. I do bewonder China's exponential rise, but am certainly not surprised at the extensive efforts to contain it by fair means or foul.

2. State sponsored coverups resulting in thousands of deaths: Tobacco, asbestos, climate change (in progress), etc.

3. It is not "cool" to discriminate against tourists (or any other individuals) on the basis of the alleged actions (or inactions) of their government. I for one hope never, for example, to be confronted by someone expressing an unrestrained grievance over their colonial past.
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  #305  
Old 21.03.2020, 12:16
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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The Chinese tourism sector is quoted as being a 300 billion business. And as of right now, it's more or less dead in the water.

Probably half of that was spent outside China. That money is going to miss somewhere.

With international travel being banned for weeks or possibly months, it's not unrealistic to predict that most airlines will be bankrupt in May, at the latest.

Swiss has grounded all but 6 of their jets right now.

EasyJet has AFAIK grounded their complete fleet.

Let that sink in for a moment.

While the masses of Chinese tourists might be annoying, the total demise - no, make that the annihilation - of the tourism sector in many countries (15% of the GDP in Spain, for example) is nothing short of an apocalypse.

The only reason this doesn't really make the news is that it's already only the tip of the gargantuan iceberg of an economic depression that comes closer every day the shops are closed and people can't work.

As guilty as China might be for letting this thing escape from their only BSL4 lab in Wuhan, in the grand scheme of things it does not even matter anymore.
Has this theory now been proven ? Were there not stacks US military personnel in Wuham between October 18 and 27 for the 2019 Military World Games some of whom could conceivably have brought the infection with them. The timing would be about right.
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  #306  
Old 21.03.2020, 12:36
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Has this theory now been proven ? Were there not stacks US military personnel in Wuham between October 18 and 27 for the 2019 Military World Games some of whom could conceivably have brought the infection with them. The timing would be about right.
Pretty sure it's a natural one..

If you understand German:

https://www.20min.ch/wissen/news/sto...Labor-19937332
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  #307  
Old 21.03.2020, 13:07
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Has this theory now been proven ? Were there not stacks US military personnel in Wuham between October 18 and 27 for the 2019 Military World Games some of whom could conceivably have brought the infection with them. The timing would be about right.
Interesting info.

But then .... from wikipedia.
<< They (Some articles on popular sites in Chinese) claim the inattentive attitude and disproportionately below average results of American athletes in the game indicate they might have been in for other purposes and they might actually be bio-warfare operatives, and that their place of residence during their stay in Wuhan was also close to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, where the first known cluster of cases occurred>> oh dear ....
Do tin-fold hats help agains corona as well? We could kill two birds with one stone?

All I can see is that it keeps coming back to that market. Even when blaming different reasons for an outbreak there.

It would be highly desirable to find out what started corona, in order to try to avoid a next time. But as long as it is all about who's to blame, there is not much chance in that, is there.
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  #308  
Old 21.03.2020, 14:13
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

Massive whataboutism re. Trump and Europe's poor handling of the coronavirus. I don't think anyone is championing their response to the situation.

China handled it very well after it had gotten out of control. But they also deserve criticism for their initial handling of the situation.

Had they been more open and honest from the start, perhaps the virus could've been more contained and we might have avoided the global pandemic we now face.
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  #309  
Old 21.03.2020, 16:43
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Massive whataboutism re. Trump and Europe's poor handling of the coronavirus. . . .
But what is often disparaged as "whataboutism" is important to ensure that double standards are not being used.

For example:

actor 1: You came into my apartment and breathed the oxygen there without my explicit permission.
actor 2: Well, what about all the previous visitors to your apartment ?

Yes, actor 2 can be accused of "whataboutism" but hasn't he got a point and is it not likely that actor 1 has double standards ?
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Old 21.03.2020, 17:37
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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But then we seem to get some racist people here who just can't understand that an efficient autocratic system like China (which definitely has it's flaws) seems to be better prepared for an epidemic like this than the headless chicken reaction in the west. We should have copied the Chinese (or Singaporean, but I guess that wouldn't have run well with "data protection" and all the like) approach from Day 1 onwards, the virus would be completely wiped out by now! Or at least - if done with some delay - being on a massive retreat.
Call me a racist, but I still prefer to live in a country with human rights.
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Old 21.03.2020, 18:05
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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But what is often disparaged as "whataboutism" is important to ensure that double standards are not being used.

For example:

actor 1: You came into my apartment and breathed the oxygen there without my explicit permission.
actor 2: Well, what about all the previous visitors to your apartment ?

Yes, actor 2 can be accused of "whataboutism" but hasn't he got a point and is it not likely that actor 1 has double standards ?
Double standards shouldn't be used, but I haven't seen anyone saying Trump or the EU handled it well or that they shouldn't be criticised.
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  #312  
Old 21.03.2020, 18:09
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Call me a racist, but I still prefer to live in a country with human rights.
A country, for example where you flush the toilet after 10PM without the risk of being thrown out of your apartment?

These freedoms which we enjoy are relative and restrictions are necessary for the "common good". For example, your neighbour's freedom to enjoy the smell of burning rubber (invented for this example) by setting fire to car tyres on his balcony is a loss your freedom to enjoy clean air.

China's success in dealing with the current epidemic is due to its, from our perspective draconian, restrictions of freedom. The common good dictates that people cannot have the freedom to go spreading pathogens about. For those seeking individual freedom, such restrictions are intolerable.
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  #313  
Old 21.03.2020, 18:20
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Double standards shouldn't be used, but I haven't seen anyone saying Trump or the EU handled it well or that they shouldn't be criticised.
The double standards are acknowledging that Trump and the EU handled it badly, by inaction and underplaying the seriousness of it all etc. etc., then implying that China is deserving of special condemnation for exactly that. Namely inaction and underplaying the seriousness of it all.
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  #314  
Old 21.03.2020, 18:30
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Massive whataboutism re. Trump and Europe's poor handling of the coronavirus. I don't think anyone is championing their response to the situation.

China handled it very well after it had gotten out of control. But they also deserve criticism for their initial handling of the situation.

Had they been more open and honest from the start, perhaps the virus could've been more contained and we might have avoided the global pandemic we now face.
That was the word I was looking for! Also a very European privilege to still be able to criticise President Trump whilst our house is burning down all around us.

So weird that there's so many people willing to defend and even praise the actions of the Chinese government, or turn a blind eye to what happened. Fortunately as proven on numerous occasions, this forum is no barometer for mainstream views.

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Has this theory now been proven ? Were there not stacks US military personnel in Wuham between October 18 and 27 for the 2019 Military World Games some of whom could conceivably have brought the infection with them. The timing would be about right.
I mean really. REALLY. This is WAAAAAAY out there.
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  #315  
Old 21.03.2020, 18:41
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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China's success in dealing with the current epidemic is due to its, from our perspective draconian, restrictions of freedom. The common good dictates that people cannot have the freedom to go spreading pathogens about. For those seeking individual freedom, such restrictions are intolerable.
Well, I'd prefer some draconian but actually working measurements over the silly "we'll tighten it up by one notch when it goes over 500 cases, then another notch over 1000 cases, another one over 5000 cases, and ooops, we got now 10000 cases so maybe another notch up?" when in reality, cases are probably 10x of what the tests say, due to hardly anyone being tested who doesn't fall extremely sick.

Cut my rights to go out and chill at the lake for a few weeks over completely destroying the countries economy because "we know better than the Chinese".
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Old 21.03.2020, 22:46
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Has this theory now been proven ? Were there not stacks US military personnel in Wuham between October 18 and 27 for the 2019 Military World Games some of whom could conceivably have brought the infection with them. The timing would be about right.

Wuhan has the only BSL4 lab in China.

They've been doing experiments with bats and viruses for years (published).

I don't really believe in coincidences.

Though, there's this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus...rus_genome_by/

To me, the most interesting event was Xi Jinping disappearing from public view for almost a week sometime in January. They probably also thought it was a biological attack of some sort and hushed him in some bunker.

Clearly, the local government botched the initial response - but they all got replaced by other people once Beijing took over.

You really have to have tungsten balls to lock down the country like that.
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  #317  
Old 21.03.2020, 22:57
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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I don't really believe in coincidences.
Dude, you are way too late for that conspiracy crap: International researchers led by the US have already concluded that it isn’t a bio weapon.

Simply put: bio weapons are made by taking an existing bacteria or virus and the modify it to have new characteristics you want. Covid19 is a natural mutation.
https://www.biospace.com/article/sto...atural-origin/
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  #318  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:39
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Well, I'd prefer some draconian but actually working measurements over the silly "we'll tighten it up by one notch when it goes over 500 cases, then another notch over 1000 cases, another one over 5000 cases, and ooops, we got now 10000 cases so maybe another notch up?" when in reality, cases are probably 10x of what the tests say, due to hardly anyone being tested who doesn't fall extremely sick.

Cut my rights to go out and chill at the lake for a few weeks over completely destroying the countries economy because "we know better than the Chinese".
This.

It would be only temporarily anyway.
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  #319  
Old 22.03.2020, 07:47
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Dude, you are way too late for that conspiracy crap: International researchers led by the US have already concluded that it isn’t a bio weapon.

Simply put: bio weapons are made by taking an existing bacteria or virus and the modify it to have new characteristics you want. Covid19 is a natural mutation.
https://www.biospace.com/article/sto...atural-origin/
Please don’t put words into people’s mouths. No one has mentioned a “biological weapon”, just the fact that the first ever BSL4 lab in China was built in Wuhan. From their press release:

Quote:
Level four is the highest bio-safety level, used for diagnostic work and research on easily transmitted pathogens which can cause fatal disease, including Ebola virus.
It’s is not “conspiracy crap” to question whether this lab may have played a role in the outbreak of the virus. We just don’t know, and we’ll never know, because the outbreak happened in China and we simply can’t trust what they say.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/0105/c90000-9311869.html
https://twitter.com/pdchina/status/949907021851013120
https://m.facebook.com/PeoplesDaily/...91622717556204
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  #320  
Old 22.03.2020, 08:04
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Re: Chinese tourist invasion

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Wuhan has the only BSL4 lab in China.

They've been doing experiments with bats and viruses for years (published).

I don't really believe in coincidences.
Well you ought to. They happen all the time.

The problem is that conspiracy theorists and the nutters that follow them have trouble understanding statistical coincidences.

One example was a high incidence of cancer in people in a village near a radio transmitter. Locals and the nutters were convinced that the case was the radio transmissions.

The problem was that the cancer rate was statistically normal.
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