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  #61  
Old 05.03.2020, 07:10
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Greetings!

Sorry for the long post but I'm desperately trying to find how can I file the complaint on Rega mission.
And you've got your answer.
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With the situation as you’ve described and your perspective did you contact Rega about their decisions and processes? They may be willing to review with you.
Now stop trying to justify why you're right to a bunch of people who think you're an idiot, and start talking to Rega. If the choice is between you defaulting and them having to start debt recovery, and getting maybe a little less, they may, if you're reasonable and non-confrontational, make you an offer.
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  #62  
Old 05.03.2020, 07:58
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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I read the thread, but not completely through, but I've got one question: (if it was asked before, sorry)

Both Helicopters that REGA does operate do fit much more people than 6 easily. You said there was 3 staff inside (plus the 3 of you) - transporting 6 people at a time is easily possible with them. This doesn't add up.
The heli would have been an AgustaWestland Da Vinci from their Untervaz base. Although this can carry 8 persons, don't forget that for Rega it is configured as a rescue helicopter with a capacity of 2 patients, one sitting, one lying.

Marton - operating altitude is over 5,000m so no issue with that.

https://www.rega.ch/en/our-missions/...opter-da-vinci
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  #63  
Old 05.03.2020, 07:59
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Better still, get an annual travel insurance: cost around 300 chuffs a year for the whole family which includes Rega, car breakdown, etc etc
I seriously doubt an insurance company would cover this non-essential ‘rescue’.
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  #64  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:00
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The helicopter didn't rescue us to Flims. They actually did 4x6 minutes flights covering the last 1/3 part of the planned hiking tour to the cafe and added minutes for lendings. The one way for the helicopter was 2km long with 100 meters altitude drop. Then we hike 500 meters more to the cafe with the terrestrial mission guys. Then we spent 40 minutes with documents and after that transferred from the cafe to Flims by the car. That's it. It was super easy mission for them for 5K CHF.
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I don't think it should be for free. But everything has its own price. The mission price depends on time. Bad planning makes the mission longer. Longer missions resulted in more money for the customer. That is it.
Wow, you are one entitled guy. No-one is going to help you wrangle out of the bill. You cause the entire situation through your own carelessness and have zero right to dictate to people who do this for a living how you were rescued. Pay it and get on with your life.
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  #65  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:05
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Wow, you are an absolute ****.

What happened to no personal attacks?


Ah, I see they altered their post.

Last edited by CodPeace; 05.03.2020 at 08:18. Reason: reference post edited
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  #66  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:11
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Beobachter, a consumer magazine, notes (translated):
Thank you.

For others. Just go and find information about the way Rega operates.
If you have a monopoly on evacuation in the region and establish unfair tariffs at the end you'll evacuate people that don't agree with that. Most of them just fly to their countries and don't pay. In fact, I've already have paid most of the price and of course, I contacted them. They are not flexible.

I didin't know the way Rega works, I was stupidly lost tourist that knew only the emergency number.

If you Rega established such tariffs there are a bunch of things they could do to spread awareness for such people. Read the German forum about that. There are some smart ideas, like include evacuation in the tourist tax or establish a hiking license that covers it. For lot of tourists, it's a big surprise that it could be like it was in my case. There are cases how Swiss people in need without insurance refused to call 144 because they knew Rega tariffs. That's not how you protect your people, I believe.

In my case, the only way to protect my finance is to argue the mission details and there are some of them that I could argue.
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  #67  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:15
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Too many unknowns here, maybe at that height it is not safe to try to lift off with a full load?
Weight and balance is a critical calculation, particularly in these circumstances. The size of the passengers isn’t known, but could have been a factor.

From REGA’s website:

A helicopter crew always comprises:

Pilot (m/f)
The pilot is responsible for the aircraft and ensures that, from an aeronautical point of view, the mission is carried out precisely, swiftly and safely. At the accident site, if necessary he assists his two colleagues in taking care of the casualty and also communicates with the Operations Centre.

Paramedic (m/f)
In the air, the paramedic assists the pilot in the cockpit by operating the navigation devices and radio. On the ground, she helps the flight physician to administer first aid. If the helicopter is not able to land next to the casualty, the paramedic is in charge of operating the rescue hoist.

Flight physician (m/f)
The emergency flight physician bears the medical responsibility for the patient. He checks and stabilises their vital functions, decides whether they are fit for transport and determines the most suitable hospital. He is assisted by the paramedic. If necessary, he prepares the patient to be transported with the rescue hoist.

Which is a little different than described by the OP.

Also:

Non-profit foundation

Rega takes the form of an autonomous, privately run, non-profit foundation. With its 3,552,000 patrons, it is firmly rooted within the Swiss population. Rega operates independently of political interests and receives no subsidies from the State. The objectives and guiding principles relating to its activities are laid down it its Foundation Deed.
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  #68  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:17
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The helicopter didn't rescue us to Flims. They actually did 4x6 minutes flights covering the last 1/3 part of the planned hiking tour to the cafe and added minutes for lendings. The one way for the helicopter was 2km long with 100 meters altitude drop. Then we hike 500 meters more to the cafe with the terrestrial mission guys. Then we spent 40 minutes with documents and after that transferred from the cafe to Flims by the car. That's it. It was super easy mission for them for 5K CHF.

I'm not Dutch, I live in the Netherlands so stop making your jokes about the nation.

This is difficult when you drip the information out like this.
So you are saying, they sent a car up to the cafe, hence telling you to go there for the rendezvous. They arrived at that cafe before you, and told you to stop were you are (maybe because by then it was dark) and ferried you by helicopter to the cafe in 2 trips? And initially they stopped at the cafe to collect the Alpine guy?


If this is all the information I'd say they acted appropriately.
It was not dark when you called, so they sent the car up, and you should have made it to the cafe in that time.
When they arrived, you were not there, they called you and you were still, by the sounds of it, 30 mins away. As it was now dark and the risk of you getting lost/injured had massively increased, and you were with a child, they collected you with the helicopter.
If that is the scenario, they acted properly. You could have taken a wrong turn and ended up down a crevasse etc.
Once you called them, you gave them the responsibilty for your wellbeing.


Price? Sounds expensive they way the OP tells it.
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  #69  
Old 05.03.2020, 08:26
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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It is capitalism and it's their money and business.
Wrong:

"We are a non-profit organisation that is funded by its patrons."

https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/rega-in-brief#card-1043

Tom
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  #70  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:13
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Thank you.

For others. Just go and find information about the way Rega operates.
If you have a monopoly on evacuation in the region and establish unfair tariffs at the end you'll evacuate people that don't agree with that. Most of them just fly to their countries and don't pay. In fact, I've already have paid most of the price and of course, I contacted them. They are not flexible.

I didin't know the way Rega works, I was stupidly lost tourist that knew only the emergency number.

If you Rega established such tariffs there are a bunch of things they could do to spread awareness for such people. Read the German forum about that. There are some smart ideas, like include evacuation in the tourist tax or establish a hiking license that covers it. For lot of tourists, it's a big surprise that it could be like it was in my case. There are cases how Swiss people in need without insurance refused to call 144 because they knew Rega tariffs. That's not how you protect your people, I believe.

In my case, the only way to protect my finance is to argue the mission details and there are some of them that I could argue.
you're free to setup a rival

have you ever taken a helicopter ride before? or tried to hire one? with a pilot? and medical staff? AT NIGHT?? in very dangerous terrain???? that costs, A LOT

At the end of the day YOU called them asking for help, YOU were an idiot who got lost, didn't have a clue what you where doing, put YOUR family at huge risk, put the helicopter and crew at risk, you were happy enough when they all came out to help but now you're being a total scumbag when it comes to paying for it, what goes around comes around.

Last edited by Guest; 05.03.2020 at 09:29. Reason: Merging successive posts (and fixing spelling, where->were - hope you don't mind)
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  #71  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:27
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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If you have a monopoly on evacuation
They don't have a monopoly. You're free to arrange private pickup with any helicopter operator you choose.

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... and establish unfair tariffs
They need to cover their costs - who do you think should pay them?
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I didin't know the way Rega works, I was stupidly lost tourist that knew only the emergency number.
Lucky you, that such a service exists, otherwise you might still be up the mountain, yes?
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In my case, the only way to protect my finance is to argue the mission details and there are some of them that I could argue.
I would like to hope that the reactions you've got on this thread might make you rethink this. But I doubt it, as you seem firmly entrenched in trying to blame someone else for your own failings.
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  #72  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:32
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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.... as you seem firmly entrenched in trying to blame someone else for your own failings.

Not a new phenomenon on EF. Usually reserved for speeding fines and contract disputes, so having a helicopter involved makes a pleasant variation.
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  #73  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:38
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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This is difficult when you drip the information out like this.
Sorry if it was not clear. When I said "they've sent us in 1.5 hours hiking tour" I meant it was estimated time to reach the cafe. We spent one hour hiking. In one hour they came to the cafe, didin't find us nearby (no surprise) and called for the helicopter. If it was not a mistake in their plan than what it was?

I agree to pay only for my mistakes, not for someones else.
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  #74  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:46
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Wrong:
Wrong.

"Switzerland’s much loved air rescue service, Rega, has flown into a storm of controversy over the remuneration the charity pays its management."

"We came to the realization that we are a public-service company and not an aid organization,” Kohler said, according to the Swiss news service SDA."

https://www.thelocal.ch/20130808/air-rescue-boss-earns-more-than-a-cabinet-minister

We are talking about service provider - customer relationships here grounded on money. All moral aspects around that is just noise. In fact there is no moral aspects in any medical service in the capitalistic world. It's really funny to talk about money and the moral on the Swiss forum
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  #75  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:50
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Wrong.

"Switzerland’s much loved air rescue service, Rega, has flown into a storm of controversy over the remuneration the charity pays its management."

"We came to the realization that we are a public-service company and not an aid organization,” Kohler said, according to the Swiss news service SDA."

https://www.thelocal.ch/20130808/air-rescue-boss-earns-more-than-a-cabinet-minister

We are talking about service provider - customer relationships here grounded on money. All moral aspects around that is just noise. In fact there is no moral aspects in any medical service in the capitalistic world. It's really funny to talk about money and the moral on the Swiss forum
they are not a government run emergency service, what part of that don't you understand?? they are free to charge as much as they like, you called them and accepted the charges in the same way as taking a taxi ride without bothering to find out how much it would cost beforehand.

you're bloody lucky they exist and saved you and your families lives, and you're also bloody lucky they pick up non-members and didn't ask for payment upfront

now do everyone a favour and go away, but don't hike - seems thats not the passtime for you.
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  #76  
Old 05.03.2020, 09:53
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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and you're also bloody lucky they pick up non-members and didn't ask for payment upfront.
That would be good to be honest. At least you could have a choice.
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  #77  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:22
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Sorry if it was not clear. When I said "they've sent us in 1.5 hours hiking tour" I meant it was estimated time to reach the cafe. We spent one hour hiking. In one hour they came to the cafe, didin't find us nearby (no surprise) and called for the helicopter. If it was not a mistake in their plan than what it was?

I agree to pay only for my mistakes, not for someones else.

The sign to the cafe said 90 mins? When you first called them?

Anyway, sounds like the cost of the helicopter is baked in. If they sent it at after your first call, you'd still be paying for it.
If you'd have made it to the cafe before dark, or only been 10 mins away, they would not have called the air support, and you'd only be in for chf1500.



As it was, the moment you called them, it was their responsibility to rescue you and take resonable steps to secure your safety. They cannot realistically have a family in distress (you called them asking for rescue) wandering around in the dark on a mountain. People die up there all the time, hence Rega.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to say, suck it up.
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  #78  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:25
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Re: Complaint on Rega

I'm afraid I'm really not with the OP. Whose "bad planning"? It's pretty clear that it was the OP's fault not REGA's and you have to take the responsibility for that.
Switzerland isn't a "nanny" state where the state looks after you. When we go to the doctor, we enter into a contract with the doctor, who sends us a bill, which we pay. We then have to claim some of the bill back from our private health insurance (there's no state health insurance).
Surely you weren't expecting the Swiss tax payer to pick up the bill for you? Which, incidentally, would be the case in France, where the state runs mountain rescue and the service is free. But then France is much more of a nanny state.
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:28
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Re: Complaint on Rega

Never mind the argument with REGA- did you come to Switzerland and decided to hike very high in Alps with your family, without Holiday Health Insurance? Surely not.
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:28
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The sign to the cafe said 90 mins?
Yes that what it exactly says. No way we could reach it in one hour hiking in the dark.
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