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Old 05.03.2020, 10:32
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Never mind the argument with REGA- did you come to Switzerland and decided to hike very high in Alps with your family, without Holiday Health Insurance? Surely not.

As someone pointed out earlier, it's unlikely that travel insurance would cover such a non-emergency scenario anyway. Medical emergency, sure, life-threatening "getting lost in the wilderness" also, but "was just over an hour from civilisation, didn't feel like walking in the dark, would have been expensive and difficult to get home", I don't think so.

I also strongly suspect that this is why Rega have decided to levy the full cost on the OP - this sort of frivolous usage puts other people's lives in danger, not least the real emergency that might have been happening on the other side of the mountain.
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  #82  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:33
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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As someone pointed out earlier, it's unlikely that travel insurance would cover such a non-emergency scenario anyway. Medical emergency, sure, life-threatening "getting lost in the wilderness" also, probably, but "was just over an hour from civilisation, didn't feel like walking in the dark, would have been expensive and difficult to get home", I don't think so.

I also strongly suspect that this is why Rega have decided to levy the full cost on the OP - this sort of frivolous usage puts other people's lives in danger, not least the real emergency that might have been happening on the other side of the mountain.
hang on!!! I live on the other side of that mountain !!!!
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  #83  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:37
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The heli would have been an AgustaWestland Da Vinci from their Untervaz base. Although this can carry 8 persons, don't forget that for Rega it is configured as a rescue helicopter with a capacity of 2 patients, one sitting, one lying.

Marton - operating altitude is over 5,000m so no issue with that.

https://www.rega.ch/en/our-missions/...opter-da-vinci
Operating altitude is one thing.

As an example, the maximum take-off altitude for the AW169 helicopter is 2,400 metres which is close to where he was.
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:38
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Yes that what it exactly says. No way we could reach it in one hour hiking in the dark.
But where were your head torches?

When something goes wrong in the mountains, with time wasted, the time can appear to speed by and in no time at all, the light fades and it gets dark.

You mentioned your destination was a cafe, but from your account, and because of lack of transport, it would appear this wasn't your original final hiking destination.
Where was that?
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:46
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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That would be good to be honest. At least you could have a choice.
"thank you for calling Rega, press 1 if you're a member, press 2 if you're a non-member"

beep

"for non members please review our charges and press 1 to accept, at any time hang up to stop this rescue"

"flight time is xxx chf per minute, the average rescue takes xxx minutes,
aspirin cost x chf each
bandage cost xx chf per 30 cm lenght
...
...
..."

50 minutes later....


"if you accept all these charges then please press 1 to continue with this rescue"


And of course all of that will be in german first, then french, then itallian, then maybe english .....

Or

Just don't call them if money is that important to you
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:52
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Sorry if it was not clear. When I said "they've sent us in 1.5 hours hiking tour" I meant it was estimated time to reach the cafe. We spent one hour hiking. In one hour they came to the cafe, didin't find us nearby (no surprise) and called for the helicopter. If it was not a mistake in their plan than what it was?

I agree to pay only for my mistakes, not for someones else.
Careful with accepting to pay for your mistakes.

In Switzerland there's the personal responsibility principle. You're allowed to do anything you want as long as you don't endanger others. In this case there was other adult and a child.

If you put a child at risk in the mountain due to your personal decisions, you might be liable for child endangerment for bringing the child while not being prepared to survive the night out there. I'd better walk away calmly before calling more attention to this incident. Someone may point a finger in the direction of child endangerment and you might become the catch instead of the hunter.

Back to the personal responsibility principle. I have no knowledge about it and found anything. But, is it legal to refuse rescue after you called them? Do you surrender or you still keep your duty and capability to take decisions after the call? Any lawyer can help us here with this question?

On a second thought, the child complicates the issue. What is the legal obligation of a rescuer to a child after the responsible adult calls for rescue? To me, it implies that the adult surrenders the responsibility of the child to the rescuer, but where's the lawyer to clarify this?

Last edited by Axa; 05.03.2020 at 11:00. Reason: grammar errors.
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  #87  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:52
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Never mind the argument with REGA- did you come to Switzerland and decided to hike very high in Alps with your family, without Holiday Health Insurance? Surely not.
I doubt holiday insurance would cover such stupidity.
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Old 05.03.2020, 10:55
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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As someone pointed out earlier, it's unlikely that travel insurance would cover such a non-emergency scenario anyway. Medical emergency, sure, life-threatening "getting lost in the wilderness" also, but "was just over an hour from civilisation, didn't feel like walking in the dark, would have been expensive and difficult to get home", I don't think so.

I also strongly suspect that this is why Rega have decided to levy the full cost on the OP - this sort of frivolous usage puts other people's lives in danger, not least the real emergency that might have been happening on the other side of the mountain.
Well yes- as a REGA paying member for many many years- if I had had a genuine life-threatening accident, and I or my loved ones had been left longer than necessary on the mountain, in terrible pain- because of time-wasters- I would not be happy. There is a limited number of helicopters and staff- and night rescues are much more costly and dangerous.

Basically, learn from mistake, don't put others life at risk, in your family or others- and pay the bill. Argument is futile- no lawyer, no Court will side with you in such a case against REGA,. NO WAY.
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  #89  
Old 05.03.2020, 10:57
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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But where were your head torches?
I think they must have been left at home, along with their common sense.

Honestly, it's hard to grasp the sheer folly exhibited by some people - quite a few people are killed in the alps each year by failing to take even the most basic and simple precautions before venturing out.
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:01
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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You mentioned your destination was a cafe, but from your account, and because of lack of transport, it would appear this wasn't your original final hiking destination.
Where was that?
The cafe was our original destination. We followed a green thinking route using google maps. But when we reached the top we found the sign to the cafe in the opposite direction from the original route we followed. We were confused and called 144 to guide us because we didn't want to meet such "surprises" anymore. They told to follow the sign and not to follow the original route. The estimated time to reach the cafe was 1.5 hours. But in one hour they called the helicopter when we almost reached them. I alwas argued the fact of calling the helicopter in general when we could easily got them in 30 more minutes. We already passed all more or less dangerous parts with snowfields. It's a super touristic arena valley in Flims nothing dangerous. I know it only now of course.
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  #91  
Old 05.03.2020, 11:11
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The cafe was our original destination. We followed a green thinking route using google maps. But when we reached the top we found the sign to the cafe in the opposite direction from the original route we followed.
Oh dear, it just gets worse, doesn't it. You didn't even have a proper map? Well, you're not the first person to get into trouble by blindly following your GPS, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

Have you considered suing Google for getting you into the situation in the first place?
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:16
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Re: Complaint on Rega

Why didn't you just turn around and walk back down instead of pressing on with nightfall coming?


What's the name of the cafe?
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:17
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Wrong:

"We are a non-profit organisation that is funded by its patrons."

https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/rega-in-brief#card-1043

Tom
And no subsidies either.

I'm a patron and pay more each year than I "have to". If I called them under OP's circumstances, I would pay the full bill too.

OP, next time you are in Switzerland, call 143 instead. Telefon Seelsorge (pastoral advice service), they will get you through the night for free.

From the first post I kept thinking about the son. Not a responsible parent we deal with here. The son could also have been the reason, Rega just decided to get them the heck back to civilisation.
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:18
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The cafe was our original destination. We followed a green thinking route using google maps. But when we reached the top we found the sign to the cafe in the opposite direction from the original route we followed. We were confused and called 144 to guide us because we didn't want to meet such "surprises" anymore. They told to follow the sign and not to follow the original route. The estimated time to reach the cafe was 1.5 hours. But in one hour they called the helicopter when we almost reached them. I alwas argued the fact of calling the helicopter in general when we could easily got them in 30 more minutes. We already passed all more or less dangerous parts with snowfields. It's a super touristic arena valley in Flims nothing dangerous. I know it only now of course.
nothing dangerous?? google maps??? are you kidding me???? you really have no idea do you? the weather in the mountains can turn in seconds, and yes I really do live on the other side of that mountain, one second can be nice and warm and the next the foehn wind hits and you have 150km wind at 2500m, clearly you have no idea what dangers there where, if everything was fine then why the hell did you call for rescue?? you say they could have landed in the snow field, really??? you're a trained pilot who knows the terrain up there now?? maybe, just maybe those guys know a little bit more about the mountains, the weather, and how dumb tourists are then you, eh?
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:25
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Re: Complaint on Rega

I remember this funny case from last year. The mother of a climber called rescue and the son refused to times to be rescued with the helicopter next to him. Then, the mountain rescue "took over" the situation and rescued the climbers on the 3rd helicopter flight. Then, the climbers where charged for 3 helicopter flights https://www.emergency-live.com/hems/...hems-missions/

It would be very interesting if there was a radio exchange between the Rega and the police. If the police took over and ordered the rescue, any decision was not longer in hands of OP or Rega.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the police took over after they knew a minor was in danger. Come on OP, tell the whole story, was the police involved? Did they ordered the flight?
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:29
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Re: Complaint on Rega

nothing special



https://www.thelocal.ch/20180918/cou...aths-this-year


fact

- summer is peak time for deaths on the mountains
- majority are men
- about 50% are tourists

- majority are ill-prepared
- majority don't see what they are doing as dangerous

- more and more tourists use their mobile phones to call an 'emergency' when there isn't one.




Oh, and I should clarify. if a Swiss person get picked up by Rega, they will bill their health insurance and any other insurance for as much of the cost as they can... it's not 'free' for Swiss people either. What they do provide 'free' is search and rescue and also medical repatriation services (bringing Swiss people back from other countries when they need urgent medical care).



What they don't provide 'free' is transportation.
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Old 05.03.2020, 11:40
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Re: Complaint on Rega

ops holidays snaps

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Old 05.03.2020, 11:55
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Operating altitude is one thing.

As an example, the maximum take-off altitude for the AW169 helicopter is 2,400 metres which is close to where he was.
The REKA version is a 109 variant and modified for high altitude work. It has to be able to service ski casualties, therefore max take-off altitude is certainly well above 3,000m.
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Old 05.03.2020, 12:10
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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I'm not Dutch, I live in the Netherlands so stop making your jokes about the nation.
I’m guessing Polish? This might explain something:

https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/the-art-of-...6301044085889a
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Old 05.03.2020, 13:19
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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