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  #141  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:02
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Re: Complaint on Rega

op, is this you?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8328981.html
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  #142  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:19
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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He called 144 which is the general emergency number, I wouldn’t immediately think of helicopter rescue if I called that number.
Emergency ibex? Emergency mule? Emergency cow? What else would you expect up a mountain?
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  #143  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:28
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Emergency ibex? Emergency mule? Emergency cow? What else would you expect up a mountain?
Maybe some instructions as to what to do and where to go based on their current position.
My first thought wouldn’t be ‘oh they’ll send out a helicopter to come and get me’, especially if I wasn’t familiar with the Swiss emergency system.

My cousin is a volunteer in mountain rescue and helicopter rescue is usually their last resort. A foot party to guide people down is the preferred option if they are not injured or unwell.
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  #144  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:32
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Thank you.

I decided to answer because your post made me thinking that the thread reads some people with analytical skills and the story could be interested for them. It's not that much info in English about the Swiss rescue system so it could be important for others no German speaking people.

1. I didn't call Rega, the Alpine Rescue guys called, I called general emergency number.

2. The estimated time to get Alpine Rescue guys was 1.5 hours but they called the helicopter in one hour and didn't wait the allocated for us time to reach them nor asked if we need the helicopter even though I was on the call all the time, they new our position and new that things go fine with our hike.

3. I'm really grateful for the rescue but then I faced financial machine that tries to rob me in different ways using excessive and unclear tariffs, which is not emotional conclusion but confirmed by the letter from the Swiss price monitoring bureau at least.

4. The rescue people working in the field have no clue about the tariffs, I asked them when we were rescued, they just do their hard work. Everything else is done by the office people. When they operate with so important things like health and life it is very easy to rise the bill to the sky. I cannot fight the tariff system, but only mission details.

Now you can continue your party in the thread.
Well, this an interesting update.

The people who called Rega were the "Alpine Rescue guys". Why complain about Rega in first place and not about the Alpine Rescue who requested the helicopter from Rega?

It doesn't look good that one vital piece of information arises at a later time. Quite probably there are more facts still unmentioned. Are there other actors? The police? Were you part of a tour and the tour operator took the decision?
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  #145  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:33
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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He called 144 which is the general emergency number, I wouldn’t immediately think of helicopter rescue if I called that number.
I would if a was in someplace that was not accessible by car.

Tom
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  #146  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:34
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Maybe some instructions as to what to do and where to go based on their current position.
Which he got.

Tom
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  #147  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:46
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Re: Complaint on Rega

op should be bloody happy they didn't call him an ambulance as well!
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  #148  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:52
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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op should be bloody happy they didn't call him an ambulance as well!
Or the Police & Social services, I could see the Swiss saying the parents are unable to look after their own children if they lived here.
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  #149  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:53
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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The rescue people working in the field have no clue about the tariffs,
Yes.

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I asked them when we were rescued,
That was too late.

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Everything else is done by the office people.
Yes. That's why, when you called anyone, those phonecalls were the moment to find out the costs. And how their system works. Had I been told, as I understand you were: "walk to the café and we'll send someone on the ground, to fetch you,"
I would have asked:
1. What will it cost me if you fetch us at the café (Plan A)?
2. If we don't make it to the café as you anticipate, what will your next steps (Plan B) be?
3. What would Plan B cost?

Although I completely agree with the others who have said that since you planned badly and you had a minor child with you, since mountains can be treacherous at night, and since you called for help, you should pay for all the costs.... I do think that this part of your narrative has been overlooked by some. Even so, I think that you are placing too much emphasis upon it:
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The estimated time to get Alpine Rescue guys was 1.5 hours but they called the helicopter in one hour and didn't wait the allocated for us time to reach them nor asked if we need the helicopter even though I was on the call all the time, they new our position and new that things go fine with our hike.
Had you simply asked for their fees at the start, then when they called after an hour (while you still thought you were on track for the café) to say they were changing the plan and would fetch you by helicopter, you'd at least have known what that would mean, in Swiss Francs.

I also think that you've underestimated two important parts of this call for help:
  • how dangerous an unanticipated night out in the dark on a mountain can be, (on this matter, the Rega's knowledge is definitely superior to yours)and
  • the unquantifiable value of the force of experience (of which the rescue workers have much more than you).

Rescue workers are faced with the challenge of having to decide what to do, and they have a responsibility to decide when to change the course of the rescue plan, based all their knowledge of
  • terrain (on this matter, their knowledge is definitely superior to yours)
  • weather (on this matter, their knowledge is definitely superior to yours),
  • the effects of nightfall where you are (on this matter, their knowledge is definitely superior to yours)
  • the actual report that you give them of who is in the group and what went wrong and what equipment you have with you and what you say your needs are (on this matter, your knowledge is definitely superior to theirs),
    and then, in addition to all those
  • their experience in listening to all sorts of people calling in for help, in trying to add things up, in noticing noises in the background of your call including what the other two people may have been saying, and in making a kind a psycho-social assessment, beyond the actual facts you gave them, i.e. including what is not being said. After all, rescue workers of all kinds know that the person in need is not always able to accurately assess and report their circumstances and condition, nor to anticipate what is going to happen around them, next. (on this matter, their knowledge is not definitely but very, very likely superior to yours).



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I'm really grateful for the rescue
Well, that's good.
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  #150  
Old 06.03.2020, 14:54
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Re: Complaint on Rega

This thread is like Pringles, I just can't stay away.
Perfect anti-dote to all the Corona gloom.
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  #151  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:03
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Maybe some instructions as to what to do and where to go based on their current position.
My first thought wouldn’t be ‘oh they’ll send out a helicopter to come and get me’, especially if I wasn’t familiar with the Swiss emergency system.

My cousin is a volunteer in mountain rescue and helicopter rescue is usually their last resort. A foot party to guide people down is the preferred option if they are not injured or unwell.
Finding that out would be part of my planning if I were to go hiking in a foreign country. But then I AM Swiss
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  #152  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:10
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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....I would have asked:
1. What will it cost me if you fetch us at the café (Plan A)?
2. If we don't make it to the café as you anticipate, what will your next steps (Plan B) be?
3. What would Plan B cost?....
Really?

Either you have an emergency or you don't. If - in this case - you can make it to the cafe you don't have an emergency and shouldn't be calling them in the first place. If you do, you accept whatever the rescuers believe to be necessary to rescue you.

If you call 1414 or 144 you are declaring an emergency and have to accept the consequences.

Oh and to the OP....do you have the slightest idea just how much a rescue helicopter plus 3 highly trained personnel costs? Thought not.
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  #153  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:16
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Had you simply asked for their fees at the start, then when they called after an hour (while you still thought you were on track for the café) to say they were changing the plan and would fetch you by helicopter, you'd at least have known what that would mean, in Swiss Francs.
No one informed me about changing the plan from A to B. I was informed only about plan A. In fact in the last call Alpine Rescue said that they would fetch us in 1 hour. That was the maximum time they estimated for themselves to get to us by foot. And after that last call they came by helicopter in 15 minutes.

The reason for them to call for the helicopter was a coincidence. The head of Alpine Rescue in his report wrote that the reason to call the helicopter was the fact that "it was nearby". so it wasn't called from the base. And it was
"the most cost-effective" way to rescue us.

I argue that 1.5K to rescue us by foot and car is the "cost-effective" way compared to 5k with the helicopter.

And how they could estimate the "cost efficiency" if they do not know the tariffs in the field?

In the report Alpine Rescue wrote that everything was planned with Rega and Rega references Alpine Rescue for the details. I have contact with Rega only.
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  #154  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:19
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Re: Complaint on Rega

op give up, no one agrees with you
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  #155  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:44
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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No one informed me about changing the plan from A to B. I was informed only about plan A. In fact in the last call Alpine Rescue said that they would fetch us in 1 hour. That was the maximum time they estimated for themselves to get to us by foot. And after that last call they came by helicopter in 15 minutes.

The reason for them to call for the helicopter was a coincidence. The head of Alpine Rescue in his report wrote that the reason to call the helicopter was the fact that "it was nearby". so it wasn't called from the base. And it was
"the most cost-effective" way to rescue us.

I argue that 1.5K to rescue us by foot and car is the "cost-effective" way compared to 5k with the helicopter.

And how they could estimate the "cost efficiency" if they do not know the tariffs in the field?

In the report Alpine Rescue wrote that everything was planned with Rega and Rega references Alpine Rescue for the details. I have contact with Rega only.
clearly no rescuer would ever pull up an xls on their phone while in the field and work out a cost benefit analysis of rescuing you (else you'd still be there)

Are you really that stupid that you don't realise that as the helicopter was already near by they actually SAVED you money?

Clearly is cheaper, whatever the $$ per minute to not have to pay for the launch and flight time to get to you, see??

you really are way too hung up on costs, no one that day would have had the slightest clue what the costs where, they where solely focused on getting your dumb arse off the mountain while they still could.
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  #156  
Old 06.03.2020, 15:58
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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No one informed me about changing the plan from A to B. I was informed only about plan A. In fact in the last call Alpine Rescue said that they would fetch us in 1 hour. That was the maximum time they estimated for themselves to get to us by foot. And after that last call they came by helicopter in 15 minutes.

The reason for them to call for the helicopter was a coincidence. The head of Alpine Rescue in his report wrote that the reason to call the helicopter was the fact that "it was nearby". so it wasn't called from the base. And it was
"the most cost-effective" way to rescue us.

I argue that 1.5K to rescue us by foot and car is the "cost-effective" way compared to 5k with the helicopter.

And how they could estimate the "cost efficiency" if they do not know the tariffs in the field?

In the report Alpine Rescue wrote that everything was planned with Rega and Rega references Alpine Rescue for the details. I have contact with Rega only.

So.......there's a written report of the head of the Alpine Rescue stating he decided to call the helicopter because "it was nearby".

You may disagree with the assessment of the situation and decisions taken by the head of Alpine Rescue. But how can you prove the last sentence in the OP "they made mission much longer so it resulted in the much higher bill."? If you want to dispute the bill, you need to prove the decisions taken by the head of Alpine Rescue were effectively wrong. Do you envision any possibility of accomplishing this?

Being generous and assuming your complaint is legitimate, in the case any arbitration process starts between Alpine Rescue and you, which opinion would prevail? The opinion of a guy who endangered his wife and son through reckless behavior Vs the opinion of the guy who successfully accomplished his job of taking back everyone to safety?

Explained with apples and oranges, you're trying to prove the people that accomplished the task, you failed at an earlier attempt, made wrong decisions. Anything is possible, lawyers sometimes work miracles, but miracles are quite unfrequent. Last thing to say is........pick your battles wisely.
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  #157  
Old 06.03.2020, 16:24
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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Last thing to say is........pick your hikes wisely.
ftfy
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  #158  
Old 06.03.2020, 16:28
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Re: Complaint on Rega

I managed to get some actual footage of the event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXrhumC8qdY
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  #159  
Old 06.03.2020, 16:36
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Re: Complaint on Rega

The dead horses’ grand-colt just expired.
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Old 06.03.2020, 16:38
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Re: Complaint on Rega

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How about 7,000 metres? Swiss pilot of course.

https://rockandice.com/climbing-news...-sets-records/
The article says it was a long line rescue.
Longline rescue involves a rescuer being attached to the bottom of a longline and being slung to a rescue site so no landing involved.
This allows the pilot to insert the rescuer into most types of terrain (angle, obstacles, and hazards permitting).

Anyway, was an impressive rescue.
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