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Luna 09.03.2020 00:58

Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his responsabi
 
The father of the son refused to see him and participate India growing and education, I receive a small amount for food and I would like to have some help about Swiss laws and parental obligation .
A short introduction
Brazilian Mother
Swiss father
Never married
The child is recognized and have all the Swiss documents .
Im here since December and was a very big fight to put my son in school because the immigration says , that because his father donít whant contact my son is not allowed to stay with me in the country .
So first the father reject and now a holy country ???
Someone who understands about law can give some informations ?
Please send me a inbox if can help .
Dificult explains the home situation here .
But basically is this , my son wants his father looks after him and have responsibility, a legal process can obligate visits ?
The line a Swiss citizens donít have the right to fora and go SchŲll in his country ?

swisspea 09.03.2020 01:50

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Would you prefer that the father take the child and you have to go back to your home country ? Be careful what you wish for!


The problem is not your son, it's your status - you are not entitled to a work permit/residency/social support. If you abandon your child and the father has already said he will not look after him, he would become parent-less and go to foster care.



If you really want your child to be able to live in Switzerland, then you have to find your own independent finances, a job with enough salary to support both you and your child - independently...



If your child has no actual contact with his Swiss family, then why bring him to live in Switzerland (go to school!) - the belief is that he is better-off in Brazil, where his roots are strong.



I'm guessing that you even entered Switzerland illegally to bring your son ? Unless you have a Swiss/ European passport ?

doropfiz 09.03.2020 04:05

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Hi Luna.
I can understand that you must be very worried.

I do not know if I can help you. But for any of us here on this forum to give you advice, I think we will need to understand a bit more.

Could you please try to answer these questions? That might help us to help you.

doropfiz 09.03.2020 04:09

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
FIRST LIST OF QUESTIONS
  1. Do you and your son have a safe place to stay now?

  2. Did you succeed in getting your son into school, or not?

  3. If he is still not in school, who told you, and where, that he could not go to school?
    If he is a Swiss citizen, properly registered, he is allowed to stay in Switzerland and he must go to school.

  4. Do you have a proper visa or permit to be in Switzerland? For how long?

  5. Do you have any letters from the Migration Authorities? If so, it is very important to respond to them.

doropfiz 09.03.2020 04:13

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
SECOND LIST OF QUESTIONS
  1. Did the Swiss man (your child's father) help you (and the boy) to come to Switzerland?

  2. Is there any legal document (like a Court Order) which proves that he has a legal obligation to pay the child (and you support)?

  3. If there is, or if there isn't such a document, did he used to send you money to support the child (and you) while you were living in Brazil?

  4. Is he giving you any money now?

  5. Is the Swiss man registered as living in Switzerland and does he have a home here?

  6. Since you have been in Switzerland, have you seen him, and has the boy seen his father?

doropfiz 09.03.2020 04:23

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swisspea (Post 3155798)
If you abandon your child and the father has already said he will not look after him, he would become parent-less and go to foster care.

I don't think it is necessarily a question of abandoning the child.

If the mother is forced (by the Swiss Immigration Authorities) to leave Switzerland, and if at that time the boy's Swiss father does not give permission for her to take their Swiss son out of Switzerland with her, then she will be have to go, but have leave her child here.

In that case, if the father does not want to (or cannot) take care of the boy, then yes, the boy will be put into foster care.

I hope we get a bit more information, to see if we can suggest help for Luna.

Medea Fleecestealer 09.03.2020 07:53

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
I would also be concerned for the OP's status here. Brazilians can be here as tourists for up to 3 months without a tourist visa, but if she arrived in December then her time is nearly up, if she's not already overstayed.

Sorry, but it doesn't matter what your son wants. If the father doesn't want contact in any way, that's it. You can't force yourself on someone which it seems to me you're trying to do.

doropfiz 09.03.2020 09:29

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3155809)
Sorry, but it doesn't matter what your son wants. If the father doesn't want contact in any way, that's it. You can't force yourself on someone which it seems to me you're trying to do.

I understand how you meant this. But I disagree: it does matter, very much, what the son wants, and it's important to acknowledge that. This seems to be, sadly, a situation where the son (and the mother) are going to have to learn that one doesn't always get what one wants.

As soon as the Social Services (called Sozialamt in German) and/or the Child Protection Agency (called KESB, in German) is/are involved, it is very likely that a social worker will try to encourage the father to see his son, at least once, or at least occasionally. This is because it is generally deemed better for a child's psychological development to know who both parents are, having a real image, rather than growing up with a fantasy notion of who and how the father might be.

You are also right, though, Medea, that if the father really does not want to see the son at all, then he cannot be made to do so. There is also no obligation upon him, at all, to see the child's mother.

I hope OP comes back and answers some of the questions, so we can see if we can advise her.

greenmount 09.03.2020 10:02

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna (Post 3155795)
The father of the son refused to see him and participate India growing and education, I receive a small amount for food and I would like to have some help about Swiss laws and parental obligation .
A short introduction
Brazilian Mother
Swiss father
Never married
The child is recognized and have all the Swiss documents .
Im here since December and was a very big fight to put my son in school because the immigration says , that because his father don’t whant contact my son is not allowed to stay with me in the country .
So first the father reject and now a holy country ???
Someone who understands about law can give some informations ?
Please send me a inbox if can help .
Dificult explains the home situation here .
But basically is this , my son wants his father looks after him and have responsibility, a legal process can obligate visits ?
The line a Swiss citizens don’t have the right to fora and go SchŲll in his country ?

Hi Luna,


Your message is not very clear and people would need more information from you to understand your situation. I take it you used an online translator.


How old is your son and for how long did he live in Switzerland with you before and when?


Is your child a Swiss citizen i.e. does he have a Swiss passport? If not, can he get the Swiss citizenship so he would be allowed to stay here regardless of his father's behaviour? This is a question some people might know how to answer.

I have no idea if he has a right to the Swiss citizenship based on the fact that he is a recognised child of a Swiss citizen. If he has, his and probably your situation might change. You too might get a Swiss residence permit based on that, but I am not sure.

Could you get in touch with people from your home country who are also living in Switzerland and know better how things work here? They might at least help you with translating a petition and with addressing it to the right institutions? Migrants' rights are often overlooked because they lack language skills and don't know where to address their questions/petitions/complaints.

You made the first step - asking on a public forum, but you really need to ask the Swiss competent institutions!

Good luck, hope someone else here can be more helpful.

st2lemans 09.03.2020 10:07

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3155821)
I have no idea if he has a right to the Swiss citizenship based on the fact that he is a recognised child of a Swiss citizen.

If either parent is Swiss, the child is automatically a Swiss citizen, there is no question of "right to Swiss citizenship". ;)

Tom

Susie-Q 09.03.2020 10:20

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3155823)
If either parent is Swiss, the child is automatically a Swiss citizen, there is no question of "right to Swiss citizenship". ;)

Tom

Yes to me it seems to be a not so clear story...authorities can't just kick a child that is a citizen out. Seems more like the mother hit hard times in Brazil and came knocking in Switzerland where life is better. Nobody knows the whole story, but the proper procedures need to be carried out.

Caleb 09.03.2020 10:33

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Question for those more familiar with the topic: if the child has a Swiss passport, and his biological father is not involved in his upbringing, wouldn't the non-resident mother get any sort of immigration leniency to allow her to stay temporarily? I understand that the boy has an irrefutable right to stay, and has only 1 involved parent. The state could either choose to support the boy and put him through foster care, or for the welfare of the child provide a permit for the mother (e.g. an S Permit) and Sozialhilfe until he turns 18.

MusicChick 09.03.2020 11:49

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb (Post 3155835)
Question for those more familiar with the topic: if the child has a Swiss passport, and his biological father is not involved in his upbringing, wouldn't the non-resident mother get any sort of immigration leniency to allow her to stay temporarily? I understand that the boy has an irrefutable right to stay, and has only 1 involved parent. The state could either choose to support the boy and put him through foster care, or for the welfare of the child provide a permit for the mother (e.g. an S Permit) and Sozialhilfe until he turns 18.

I think there could be leniency if the mom shows that she does everything to sustain herself, short and long term. There are also ways for the father to be made aware of his parental duties. Good luck OP, to you and to your baby xo

Caleb 09.03.2020 12:24

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3155877)
I think there could be leniency if the mom shows that she does everything to sustain herself, short and long term. There are also ways for the father to be made aware of his parental duties. Good luck OP, to you and to your baby xo

The state should either give the mother the benefit of the doubt first, and give her an opportunity to legally make a living, or simply say "no" from the get go. I wonder if the regulations in place are so clear-cut, or there's leeway for the immigration officers to make judgment calls.

MusicChick 09.03.2020 12:35

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb (Post 3155897)
The state should either give the mother the benefit of the doubt first, and give her an opportunity to legally make a living, or simply say "no" from the get go. I wonder if the regulations in place are so clear-cut, or there's leeway for the immigration officers to make judgment calls.

I think there's always a leeway. But we are hearing from her now when her time us up. The officers will look into her efforts of past months (job search, integration, language, how the child does in school socialisation-wise, etc.), I think. I hope she and her child can get something figured out, a job pre-contract, etc.

Luna 12.03.2020 17:17

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
My son is since born register in the Swiss embassy with passaport and all regular, he born in Brazil but his father whent there and did all .
So I have all the document, contract of work, integration letter, many friend wrote to the immigration, we didint live in Brazil and I donít came here to ask for social help, I have a hotel in Brazil and I can prove incomes I have bank statements very good and many documents proving my financial autonomy his father also pay for the child every month etc..
In the begging the immigration thing would be ok , but then When the imigration contact his father and him declined the interest in participate of the life is the son , the immigration told have a very old law that say when have no contact canít give the permit to the mother stay with the child.
I donít see no logic in send my son to foster house because I always erase my son and I have capacity for this, we came from Greece Here, and I have applied for a permit before I came to life in Fšllanden the problem is when I came I had to change the adress and the canton , so the ask of the imigration start again because is separate.
My son is already 3 weeks in the School making an intensive German .

doropfiz 12.03.2020 17:36

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
I'm sorry you are in this situation.

You have to be very clear in your mind that there are two separate cases here: your son, and you. As a mother, it is natural for you to feel that your-life-and-your-son's-life are one unit, to feel that you can live where he lives and he can live where you live. That feels obvious. But it is not, by law.

In the following posts, I will try to set out the situation as I understand it.

doropfiz 12.03.2020 17:36

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
This post is about your son's status.

He is Swiss. Therefore, he can ALWAYS live in Switzerland, and no-one can ever stop him from doing so.

He is a minor. Therefore, he ALWAYS has to have parental authority over him. Or, if the parents are not there for him, then he will be given government authority over him. This will go through the KESB (Swiss government child protection agency).

If the father does not want to care for the boy, he can ALWAYS refuse. The Swiss government might find ways to make the father pay for the boy. But they cannot make him see his son, they cannot force him to take an interest in him, and there is no way at all to make the man care for the boy, if that man does not want to do so.

While you, as mother, are in Switzerland, and the boy is in Switzerland, you have the parental authority.

If you leave Switzerland because
  • because you choose to, OR
  • because the Swiss government will not give you a permit to stay,
and if you then leave your son in Switzerland,
then the KESB will arrange a foster family for him, or put him in a children's home.

You could choose to take the boy with you, back to Greece or Brazil.
However, be aware that
  • if the father does not give permission for you to remove the boy from Switzerland,
you will HAVE TO leave the boy here.

One might ask: Why would a father, who does not want to see his son, prevent the son from leaving Switzerland?

This is done, sometimes, by a father who knows that the Swiss systems will take care of the child.

In particular, if the father is Swiss and living in Switzerland and does not have a lot of money
  • perhaps has a Disability Pension and needs top-up benefits, or
  • perhaps lives from the Swiss Social Security,
it be financially better, for the father, if he lets the Swiss government pay for the foster family or the children's home.

This can be cheaper, for the father, than having to send money for the child, each month.

doropfiz 12.03.2020 18:05

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
This post is about your your status.

The Swiss government distinguishes between
  • Swiss
  • EU and
  • non-EU.

You are non-EU.

They also distinguish between people who are living abroad, and people who are already living here.

Do you have a current Swiss permit to be here?
If yes, do you still have some time before it expires?
If not, what is your current Swiss status?


The Swiss government - in looking at your application to be allowed to stay here - does NOT consider "I am the mother of the boy!" as a primary reason to let you stay here.

The big, big, big questions of the Swiss immigration authorities are:
  1. Do you have a criminal record?
  2. Can you show that you will not need to claim Swiss social security benefits?

Factors that are regarded to show that you are financially autonomous and are likely to integrate into Switzerland include:
1. proof that you earn enough to support yourself (and possibly also your son) with
  • an employment contract for a permanent job, OR
  • many employment contracts for smaller part-time or temporary jobs which add up, OR somtimes also accepted:
  • many efforts made on your part to find work and to prove that you are very likely to find work (one of these is education, another is learning the local Swiss language).

2. proof that you have already made progress in learning the local language, since your arrival, and that you are taking a German course, and speaking German to people here whom you already know

3. proof that you have taken the necessary steps to get your son into school, including your contacts with school-teachers, and a letter from the school

4. proof of stable accommodation, i.e. a
rental contract for yourself and your son

5. your papers in good order, with all the correspondence with the Swiss authorities. You must reply to every letter they give you... even if your reply is only "I have received your letter and am trying to collect the information you have asked of me, and will reply soon."

doropfiz 12.03.2020 18:42

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Hi again Luna

Please have another look at my lists of questions (from posts 4 and 5 above), repeated here.

I have tried to insert the answers, as I understand them from you. Have I understood correctly? Please correct or add information. Thank you.

FIRST LIST OF QUESTIONS
1. Do you and your son have a safe place to stay now?
Yes.

2. Did you succeed in getting your son into school, or not?
Yes. He is learning German in an intensive course. Good!

3. If he is still not in school, who told you, and where, that he could not go to school?
If he is a Swiss citizen, properly registered, he is allowed to stay in Switzerland and he must go to school.
Yes, answered in 2. above.

4. Do you have a proper visa or permit to be in Switzerland? For how long?

5. Do you have any letters from the Migration Authorities? If so, it is very important to respond to them.



SECOND LIST OF QUESTIONS

1. Did the Swiss man (your child's father) help you (and the boy) to come to Switzerland?

2. Is there any legal document (like a Court Order) which proves that he has a legal obligation to pay the child (and you support)?

3. If there is, or if there isn't such a document, did he used to send you money to support the child (and you) while you were living in Brazil?
Yes, he sent money each month. But we were in Greece, not Brazil.

4. Is he giving you any money now?

5. Is the Swiss man registered as living in Switzerland and does he have a home here?

6. Since you have been in Switzerland, have you seen him, and has the boy seen his father?

doropfiz 12.03.2020 18:44

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Luna,
I understand that it seems like there is no logic in this. However, it is partly a cultural difference, and partly one of the law.

Please remember that if you want something from the Swiss government (permission to live in Switzerland) then you will have to do things their way, and supply all the information that they ask of you.

I am not a lawyer, but I am trying to help you sort through the information, so that we (me? others on this forum?) can see whether there is something that can be done to help you.

Luna 12.03.2020 20:16

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3155803)
SECOND LIST OF QUESTIONS
  1. Did the Swiss man (your child's father) help you (and the boy) to come to Switzerland?
    He did travel documents only .

  2. Is there any legal document (like a Court Order) which proves that he has a legal obligation to pay the child (and you support)?
    Yes I have from many year before a court with the agreement of pension of the child .

  3. If there is, or if there isn't such a document, did he used to send you money to support the child (and you) while you were living in Brazil?
    Yes he always send after the decision of the court .

  4. Is he giving you any money now?
    He pay the pension , that is related to the cost of living in Brazil of course now in Switzerland if impossible support the child with the same amount .

  5. Is the Swiss man registered as living in Switzerland and does he have a home here? His father is a Swiss man , he have home and 2 bussines

  6. Since you have been in Switzerland, have you seen him, and has the boy seen his father?

I didnít saw him because when u whent there with my son I saw only his half brother the father was traveling in Thailand

doropfiz 12.03.2020 20:29

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Luna,
I know of a case which had some similar aspects to yours, but it may not be exactly the same.

In that case, I learnt that it is very, very difficult to sort the information. This is because the people involved are upset, and the legal procedures feel confusing.

Please, if you can, try to answer the questions in my lists. If we have those answers from you, it might help me (or help others) to give you good advice. I'm trying to help you, but have too little information.

Luna 12.03.2020 20:30

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
I read your answer thank you very much .
Itís unbelievable the law, the father have the right to make his wich ,
And the children donít have nobody to protect against the consequences this will cause in the psicolůgic of the child .
I have all this documents, I have financial applications, work contract , I have my son already in school aŪ study German and I finish now a tourism course and aŪ receive a Diploma of Expert in Switzerland, for sales tours in all Switzerland.
Im owner of a bussines and I can prove self independence with money .
I have a clean criminal record and bacharel in Tourism and many courses with Diploma .
My son is never staying here without me out of questions .
But he have during this years showing some problems because the missing of the father, so he ask to come because he want knew his origins he study German all day .
My first ask for permit, I not even ask for work permit because my meaning was he go school and I help him in the beginning . And I have incomes from my bussines and also I can prove , so they told I show have a job I found one and I show also the letter of intention , to as soon I got the permit I have the job I have many letter of friend telling about integrations etc ...
must have also another law that protect the interest of the child no ?
Because if u read the ONU agreement about the child , the child must have access a care for the family, etc ...

Mrs. Doolittle 12.03.2020 20:37

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Is the boy's father married ?

doropfiz 12.03.2020 20:38

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Okay, good, this is more to go on.

Please have a look at this standard example of a budget for a single parent with one child.
Click on "Budgetbeispiele mit 1 Kind" (budget examples with 1 child)

There are two:
CHF 3'500 to CHF 4'500
CHF 5'000 to CHF 6'000.

Would your job offer pay you that much?
You will probably need to provide a rental contract for accommodation that is in the range in those example budgets?

doropfiz 12.03.2020 20:40

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Does the boy's father work and earn a salary? Or is he self-employed? Or does he receive a pension from the Disabilty Office or an Old Age pension? Or does he receive benefits from the Social Security office?

doropfiz 12.03.2020 20:47

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna (Post 3157676)
My son is never staying here without me out of questions .

The father has a legal right to give, or not to give, permission for the boy to leave Switzerland.

If the father does not give permission for the boy to leave Switzerland, then
  • the boy will have to stay, and
  • you will not be allowed or able to take him out of the country.

That sounds terrible! But if the father refuses to allow the child to leave, then this will be better for your case of trying to stay in Switzerland.

Medea Fleecestealer 12.03.2020 20:49

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
I'm still trying to get my head around all this. How old is your child? How can he miss someone he's never even met? :confused:

I'm not sure who told you to get an employment contract because as a non-EU national it's your potential employer who has to apply for a permit on your behalf and they have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

Whether your finances are enough for the Swiss authorities to grant you a permit only they know. You might think it's enough, but they may not.

However much your son may want his father to care for him neither you, he nor the Swiss authorities can force him to. Even if there was some way it could be done it would only cause more resentment which would most likely be more harmful to your son than his father ignoring him.

Luna 12.03.2020 21:04

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Susie-Q (Post 3155831)
Yes to me it seems to be a not so clear story...authorities can't just kick a child that is a citizen out. Seems more like the mother hit hard times in Brazil and came knocking in Switzerland where life is better. Nobody knows the whole story, but the proper procedures need to be carried out.

No I didint came knock in Switzerland because the life ( economy in the reality ) better , life is relative ...
I didnít live in Brazil before came here I was already living in Europe ...
I donít need social Help at all .
Everybody have the rights to knew they origins . P

doropfiz 12.03.2020 21:05

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157686)
I'm still trying to get my head around all this. How old is your child? How can he miss someone he's never even met? :confused:

However old they are, children can miss the abstract father, the idea of knowing who their father is, of seeing him in his contact, have a yearning ot meet and know him. I think this is what Luna means. Remember, English is not her mother tongue. Also, we do not know if the child has never met the father. Perhaps the father previously visited them in Brazil or in Greece.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157686)
I'm not sure who told you to get an employment contract because as a non-EU national it's your potential employer who has to apply for a permit on your behalf and they have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

Yes, you are right, that an employer cannot simply employ a non-EU person.
Luna, as I understand it, has a job offer. I think this is a letter from a company saying that, if the Swiss government would give her a permit, then they would employ her.

If Luna has any chance at all, to get permission to stay here, then it will be important that she can prove that - if allowed to stay - she will work.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157686)
Whether your finances are enough for the Swiss authorities to grant you a permit only they know. You might think it's enough, but they may not.

Yes, this is absolutely true.

Luna 12.03.2020 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157686)
I'm still trying to get my head around all this. How old is your child? How can he miss someone he's never even met? :confused:

I'm not sure who told you to get an employment contract because as a non-EU national it's your potential employer who has to apply for a permit on your behalf and they have to prove they can't find a Swiss/EU national who could do the job.

Whether your finances are enough for the Swiss authorities to grant you a permit only they know. You might think it's enough, but they may not.

However much your son may want his father to care for him neither you, he nor the Swiss authorities can force him to. Even if there was some way it could be done it would only cause more resentment which would most likely be more harmful to your son than his father ignoring him.

Nobody born form the egg itís natural the kids wants to knew his father, his culture and language .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs. Doolittle (Post 3157680)
Is the boy's father married ?

Not married

doropfiz 12.03.2020 21:09

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157686)
However much your son may want his father to care for him neither you, he nor the Swiss authorities can force him to. Even if there was some way it could be done it would only cause more resentment which would most likely be more harmful to your son than his father ignoring him.

Yes, I agree with you here, too. Some fathers change their minds, over time, and open up. Others do not. And no-one can force them.

But Luna is right in this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna (Post 3157699)
Nobody born form the egg it’s natural the kids wants to knew his father, his culture and language .

and this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna (Post 3157696)
Everybody have the rights to knew they origins .

The generally accepted current psychological thinking is that is it better for a child to know who their parents are, than for those parents to just be unknown phantoms. This applies even if the parent is disinterested or bad.

The reason for this is so that the child can learn to live in reality, not in a fantasy world. Some children dream that their father (or mother) is a big bad monster, but when they meet them, they find out that they are quite ordinary. Other children spend years dreaming that thier absent parent will suddenly appear and rescue them, shower them with gifts, build them a big house, keep them safe and love them forever. If, then, they meet the real parent, it is easier for them to understand that those ideas are just a dream.

Therefore, if it can be possible for this son to meet the father, at least once, in safe conditions (maybe with a social worker) this would probably be good for the boy's psychological development, even if, then, he has to accept the sad reality that his father does not want a relationship.

Luna 12.03.2020 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3157682)
Does the boy's father work and earn a salary? Or is he self-employed? Or does he receive a pension from the Disabilty Office or an Old Age pension? Or does he receive benefits from the Social Security office?

He work in his own bussines and have a museum of moto in Switzerland, he donít receive pension or social .
sorry English is not my mother language sometimes is dificult explain very clear

Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3157674)
Luna,
I know of a case which had some similar aspects to yours, but it may not be exactly the same.

In that case, I learnt that it is very, very difficult to sort the information. This is because the people involved are upset, and the legal procedures feel confusing.

Please, if you can, try to answer the questions in my lists. If we have those answers from you, it might help me (or help others) to give you good advice. I'm trying to help you, but have too little information.

Im trying to understand and answer in the rights spaces the post .
Im not upset, I just donít understand how the state can protect the irresponsibility of the father, instead to protect the interest of the kid.
Nobody think the damage can cause in the psicolůgico of the kid, first reject for the father , after for hole country ?
Iím not guilty that his father donít have humanity .

Medea Fleecestealer 12.03.2020 21:20

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3157701)
Yes, I agree with you here, too. Some fathers change their minds, over time, and open up. Others do not. And no-one can force them.

But Luna is right in this:

and this:


The generally accepted current psychological thinking is that is it better for a child to know who their parents are, than for those parents to just be unknown phantoms. This applies even if the parent is disinterested or bad.

The reason for this is so that the child can learn to live in reality, not in a fantasy world. Some children dream that their father (or mother) is a big bad monster, but when they meet them, they find out that they are quite ordinary. Other children spend years dreaming that thier absent parent will suddenly appear and rescue them, shower them with gifts, build them a big house, keep them safe and love them forever. If, then, they meet the real parent, it is easier for them to understand that those ideas are just a dream.

Therefore, if it can be possible for this son to meet the father, at least once, in safe conditions (maybe with a social worker) this would probably be good for the boy's psychological development, even if, then, he has to accept the sad reality that his father does not want a relationship.

Or make it worse because now the child knows for real that his father doesn't want anything to do with him. Could be atm he just believes that if only his father met him he'd change his mind and they'd all be one happy family together. When that doesn't turn out to be the case what then? Is the child going to be happy to be living here, assuming the permit thing can be sorted out for the mother, knowing his father is near yet wants nothing to do with him?

And should it turn out that the father refuses permission for the child to leave yet the mother has to what psychological effect would that have on the child?

Luna 12.03.2020 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3157698)
However old they are, children can miss the abstract father, the idea of knowing who their father is, of seeing him in his contact, have a yearning ot meet and know him. I think this is what Luna means. Remember, English is not her mother tongue. Also, we do not know if the child has never met the father. Perhaps the father previously visited them in Brazil or in Greece.


Yes, you are right, that an employer cannot simply employ a non-EU person.
Luna, as I understand it, has a job offer. I think this is a letter from a company saying that, if the Swiss government would give her a permit, then they would employ her.

If Luna has any chance at all, to get permission to stay here, then it will be important that she can prove that - if allowed to stay - she will work.



Yes, this is absolutely true.

The immigration told to I do it that could help in the process.
Im doing all my interview personally in the immigration,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3157713)
Or make it worse because now the child knows for real that his father doesn't want anything to do with him. Could be atm he just believes that if only his father met him he'd change his mind and they'd all be one happy family together. When that doesn't turn out to be the case what then? Is the child going to be happy to be living here, assuming the permit thing can be sorted out for the mother, knowing his father is near yet wants nothing to do with him?

And should it turn out that the father refuses permission for the child to leave yet the mother has to what psychological effect would that have on the child?

But is exactly this my son is asking for
Is very sad 2 Christmas he donít win present because he ask for the father, he told 3 times want to suicide after the letter that the father wrote telling that donít want have contact .
Im just a mother looking for erase a children in the best way I can for be became a respectable adult .
I saw some answer in this post attacking me, itís not because Iím from Brazil that Iím Poor , Itís not because Switzerland have a better economy that is a better place for living .
If the father of my son was from Somalia, I would be there also .
The DNA is very strong and even that he almost didnít have contact with the father, because last time he came he had one year , now he have 8 , so for him is like he donít remember , he have this with and nothing can change i
I was oriented for professional psicologist that the best should he see the father

greenmount 12.03.2020 21:34

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Luna (Post 3157718)
But is exactly this my son is asking for
Is very sad 2 Christmas he don’t win present because he ask for the father, he told 3 times want to suicide after the letter that the father wrote telling that don’t want have contact .
Im just a mother looking for erase a children in the best way I can for be became a respectable adult .
I saw some answer in this post attacking me, it’s not because I’m from Brazil that I’m Poor , It’s not because Switzerland have a better economy that is a better place for living .
If the father of my son was from Somalia, I would be there also .
The DNA is very strong and even that he almost didn’t have contact with the father, because last time he came he had one year , now he have 8 , so for him is like he don’t remember , he have this with and nothing can change i
I was oriented for professional psicologist that the best should he see the father

Luna, I am sorry you and your son have all these problems.

Maybe it's worth trying one more time to explain this man that his son needs him just as a father, it's not about money or other material things.

If not, I think you need a psychologist to talk with you son (you need that either way) and help him understand this complicated adult world and that is not his fault.

As for people making assumptions because of your nationality, it's nothing personal - they make assumptions for every other nationality. :D
It's what humans do. :)

I wish we could be more helpful here, know more about the Swiss laws that would apply in your situation, but we don't. If you can afford a lawyer, that would be the best!!!

Good luck, have strength.

Luna 12.03.2020 21:40

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3157722)
Luna, I am sorry you and your son have all these problems.

Maybe it's worth trying one more time to explain this man that his son needs him just as a father, it's not about money or other material things.

If not, I think you need a psychologist to talk with you son (you need that either way) and help him understand this complicated adult world and that is not his fault.

As for people making assumptions because of your nationality, it's nothing personal - they make assumptions for every other nationality. :D
It's what humans do. :)

A forum is for discuss the subject not attract the person with personals believes .
By the way Me or my son have no intention of construct a family with his father or so .
Itís completely a question of he knew .
He ask to see and give a present, he is not dreaming in move and live with the father .
Itís really a question of Identity, Origens

roegner 12.03.2020 21:50

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
Unfortunately that doesnt give you rights to live here? Anyway, good luck!

st2lemans 12.03.2020 21:53

Re: Swiss Child being kicked out of the country because the father rejects his respon
 
At the end of the day, your son is free to live here, but you are not.

So, your child is not being kicked out, rather you are.

Sorry, but that's how it works here and in many other countries.

Tom


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