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Old 30.03.2020, 04:22
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E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

The E-Bikers lately, coming from outside of Zurich, have become wanna-be motorcycle gangs in the local forest, I am beyond fed up with it myself. My local town/village neighbors and people that own the land are sick of it as well.

It's almost always some middle aged, overly-proud guy, with his 3-5,000 CHF E-bike. Gangs of 3-4, 5-6, 10-15, maybe more in rare cases... smashes everyone's opportunity with a dog or two or children to walk a trail that's wide enough for almost 1.5 -2 cars, to have a nice walk around the woods.

It's been a small problem for a few years, recently it's exploding like the virus. The E-bikers specifically, are hogging the trails, riding very fast past trail walkers & their small families.

I appreciate good health, riding the bike for exercise, adventure and excitement. The problem is getting out of hand recently though; and it needs to be addressed.

Hundreds of E-bikers a day going through around here...riding all over the farm fields, taking shortcuts, "for an adventure" a few have rode by and tried to kick my horses on the trails, for being slow or in their way? People around my area from 10-90 years of age are complaining and getting sick of it.

For all the dip-shits out there, that think having a 1,000, 5,000, 10,000 CHF E-bike entitles you to put others safety at risk. I and many others have a forest full of sticks and branches to carry along as a walking stick that could really bend up some spokes and your face.. potentially when someone accidentally has to tie their shoe and lost the stick from hand, accidentally, as you are letting your motor driven E-bike blast by at an illegal speed.

Last edited by Sonnenbrand; 30.03.2020 at 04:36.
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Old 30.03.2020, 08:41
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Canít your commune ban ebikes, or all cycles on some of the roads?

Half the paths for walkers and half for cyclists. Farm and forestry vehicles excepted of course.

Or, when you go walking take your nordic walking poles. As a biker approaches hold out your poles horizontally establishing your non-covid personal space. Try and give them room to pass, without getting too near to you.

If that doesnít work start coughing and sneezing. It is hay fever season.
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Old 30.03.2020, 10:30
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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Canít your commune ban ebikes, or all cycles on some of the roads?

Half the paths for walkers and half for cyclists. Farm and forestry vehicles excepted of course.
Did you read that that the problem was the vast numbers of e-bikers taking up the paths, and not of bikes where you put all the effort in?

Ban electric bikes and the problem is minimalised?
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:07
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Well, the stats show e-bikes are a rising concern: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/road-de...third/44874308

As a long time MTB rider, I see a few issues with e-bikes, electric scooters and similar things. People without reflexes is riding at 30-40 km/h but they have not the skills to turn and brake safely. Those skills are only developed after you fall and crash more than a few times.

When the power is limited to your legs, falling and crashing ends in a good laugh and story to tell over beers. You learn how to ride and how to roll when you lose control. Crashing on a e-bike at 45 km/h without experience or helmet could be much worse.

I see e-bikes as sports cars. Sports cars have a steering wheel, gas and brake pedals as normal cars. But they will hurt you bad if you push them beyond the limits because you'll crash at higher speeds. E-bikes are also powerful.

I think the legal system (injury complaints) and insurance companies (higher policy costs) will sort this out in the following years. For the moment, use your hiking poles to ensure people keep their distance.
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:21
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

This is a problem for all bikers not just ebikers and walkers. Switzerland leads the world for ebikes per head of population. All paths through the forests and fields are considered multi use unless signposted differently. I am not sure of the attraction of walking in the middle of a path for walkers but a lot do it oblivious to bikers. There is no speed limit on bikes offroad but emtbs are limited in assistance to 25kph, after that it relies on how fast you can pedal.

In Canton Zurich there are a lot of trails that have been used by bikers for years but are not official trails so therefore illegal, there has been a big crackdown on these with a lot of fines handed out. This is forcing more congestion on other paths. There are a number of groups working to get more bike specific trails put in but authorities fight this every step of the way.

So this is a problem for everyone but logic and politeness dictates that it is easier for a walker to step to the side than 120kgs of biker doing 25kph to stop and go around you?
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:36
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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So this is a problem for everyone but logic and politeness dictates that it is easier for a walker to step to the side than 120kgs of biker doing 25kph to stop and go around you?
The joy of MTB riding is avoiding obstacles while riding. Obstacles can be trees, roots, rocks or people. If I brake and turn for a tree, I can do the same for people. A tree stays put, but a person can do the very opposite of what you expect and you hit them. This is one very stupid accident because it's avoidable. If bike riders are annoyed by obstacles, road bikes have always been there.

Bikes have now 150mm of front suspension, a real MTB rider can go out of the trail, pass the pedestrians and return to the trail with a huge grin in his face.
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:40
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Although I understand and support the complaint, there are also those walkers who congregate in groups while taking up the width of a very wide path. The problem is ultimately the heavy traffic and often a lack of respect for others.
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:43
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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This is a problem for all bikers not just ebikers and walkers.
Yes I agree. But without e-bikes, most of these clowns are at home/pub.
A colleague basically went from no biking in the last 20 years to zooming at 30-40kph every weekend.
The trails are now more congested and you have people riding at speeds way beyond their skills.
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Old 30.03.2020, 11:47
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Being a mountain biker and a (dog) walker, I see the problem is with the bikers. tbh.

Hardly any of them have bells to alert pedestrians, and they also hurtle down paths with the expectation that the way is clear around the corners etc.
They also, for the most part, do not adjust/reduce their speed enough when passing.


Cue the responsible biker to refute my aspertions.
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Old 30.03.2020, 12:11
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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...and they also hurtle down paths with the expectation that the way is clear around the corners etc.
THIS!

I always invite riders to compete in races for several reasons. In a track you can be almost sure there's no obstacle around corners...and there's always an ambulance

If not on a race or bike purpose trails, take responsibility, recognize blind turns and ride at a speed that you control.
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Old 30.03.2020, 12:28
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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The E-Bikers lately, coming from outside of Zurich, have become wanna-be motorcycle gangs in the local forest, I am beyond fed up with it myself. My local town/village neighbors and people that own the land are sick of it as well.

It's almost always some middle aged, overly-proud guy, with his 3-5,000 CHF E-bike. Gangs of 3-4, 5-6, 10-15, maybe more in rare cases... smashes everyone's opportunity with a dog or two or children to walk a trail that's wide enough for almost 1.5 -2 cars, to have a nice walk around the woods.

It's been a small problem for a few years, recently it's exploding like the virus. The E-bikers specifically, are hogging the trails, riding very fast past trail walkers & their small families.

I appreciate good health, riding the bike for exercise, adventure and excitement. The problem is getting out of hand recently though; and it needs to be addressed.

Hundreds of E-bikers a day going through around here...riding all over the farm fields, taking shortcuts, "for an adventure" a few have rode by and tried to kick my horses on the trails, for being slow or in their way? People around my area from 10-90 years of age are complaining and getting sick of it.
Oh man this post has so much ignorance and vitriol in it. I have been an MTB'er for years and recently bought myself an E-MTB (mountain bike) so feel the need to clarify some things based in what I see in your post.

Regular Ebikes like E-MTB's are limited via EU regulations to 25km/h before any assistance cuts off. Therefore, if you see anyone doing speeds of FASTER than 25 km/h then the assistance likely has nothing to do with it. The last time I checked, I was able to go faster than 25 km/h on every regular MTB I ever rode. The last time I checked, 25 km/h was also considered a safe speed limit everywhere where bikes are legally allowed. It is easy to get above 25 km/h on any straight, downhill or mild incline whether you are riding a regular bike or an Ebike.

If you see someone on an E-bike doing more than 25km/h WITH assistance it means that they either:
  1. Have a pedelec which go up to 45km/h requires a license and may be riding illegally on regular bike tracks.
  2. Have illegally modified their E-bike to go faster than 25 km/h.

These two kinds of people above are the ONLY reason you have to be annoyed with the principle of anyone riding an E-bike with 25km/h assist in an area that it is legal to ride regular bikes or E-bikes with an assist of up to 25 km/h. People who illegally modify Ebikes are bad people, but they are a small minority of the overall Ebike population because most people obviously do not want to do something that is illegal and that will void your insurance and get you in trouble with the police if you have an accident.

As for the "some have tried to kick my horses" or "riding in places bikes shouldn't be riding" or "displaying impatience for anyone moving out of their way" stuff... that is nothing to do with simply "riding an Ebike" and everything to do with the person on the bike being an absolute ****. This happens with people on normal MTB's too I have seen it often over the years.

The people I know who have an Ebike are just normal, respectful people who for their own person reasons, usually after riding regular bikes for years, decided to buy an E-bike. Don't let the actions of a small minority of douchebags affect your view of an entire population.

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For all the dip-**** out there, that think having a 1,000, 5,000, 10,000 CHF E-bike entitles you to put others safety at risk. I and many others have a forest full of sticks and branches to carry along as a walking stick that could really bend up some spokes and your face.. potentially when someone accidentally has to tie their shoe and lost the stick from hand, accidentally, as you are letting your motor driven E-bike blast by at an illegal speed.
If somene passes you on their Ebike and you decide to maliciously stick a branch in their spokes then I hope you are going to get a big punch in the face for endangering their life. If you did that to me or one of my friends, then assuming I could exercise some self-control I would at the very least call the police and prosecute you and try to sue you to the point where your life was adversely affected.

Last edited by Chuff; 30.03.2020 at 12:46.
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Old 30.03.2020, 12:35
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

I guess people don't believe that much in coexistence and share the trail idea.
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Old 30.03.2020, 12:46
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Whether e-biker or normal biker, the problem (when there is one) is generally with too much speed around walkers.


I am a hiker, dog-walker and bike rider, so can relate to almost every 'type' that uses trails. Most people are considerate, but you do from time to time experience things like:


-Bikers not slowing down
-Hikers walking in the middle of the trail and not willing to move for a biker
-Dog-walkers not willing or able to control their dog around other people or bikes
-Pedestrians who think that bikes should not be shared with bikes


Mutual respect and understanding would solve every issue.......along with a friendly 'Hello' and demeanor to others



As an additional point, I've noticed that e-bikers in general tend to have less biking etiquette than other bikers, maybe because they're newer to it.......hopefully that will change
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Old 30.03.2020, 13:06
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

As someone who both walks/run/hikes AND road/MTB/E-bike cycles, it is a mutual-respect issue.

Also to be honest, there are so many out there (cyclists and pedestrians) who have no awareness for what is going on around them.

My biggest pet-hate is either pedestrians or cyclists not keeping to one side of the road, or travelling abreast of each other to the extent it hinders passing or overtaking traffic. The middle of the road is for idiots only, be it on foot or on wheels.
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Old 30.03.2020, 13:07
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

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Whether e-biker or normal biker, the problem (when there is one) is generally with too much speed around walkers.


I am a hiker, dog-walker and bike rider, so can relate to almost every 'type' that uses trails. Most people are considerate, but you do from time to time experience things like:


-Bikers not slowing down
-Hikers walking in the middle of the trail and not willing to move for a biker
-Dog-walkers not willing or able to control their dog around other people or bikes
-Pedestrians who think that bikes should not be shared with bikes


Mutual respect and understanding would solve every issue.......along with a friendly 'Hello' and demeanor to others



As an additional point, I've noticed that e-bikers in general tend to have less biking etiquette than other bikers, maybe because they're newer to it.......hopefully that will change
I agree with your post and also that some ebikers are newer to biking than on average you find with regular MTBs. However no amount of inexperience should excuse lack of basic politeness and common sense and if I saw any bikers, Ebike or otherwise, being rude and impatient I would definitely have a word with them as in the end it affects us all.
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Old 30.03.2020, 13:26
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

What gets me is that when you approach a gaggle of pedistrainians they 1st seem surprised by your presence on your bike or in your car. 2nd decide they should do something and 3rd split up and stand on both sides of the road and glare at you.

Then your need to thread the needle.

Please people, if you need to give way move to the left hand side (in the direction you are travelling) of the road. And donít dawdle.

Merci
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Old 30.03.2020, 13:31
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Re: E-Bikers --> Steer Clear

Now that poot mentioned dogs, time for a story. Important context: this happened in a dedicated and marked downhill trail.

I was going downhill and stopped to catch my breath where the trail crossed a fire road. I noticed a gym buff with an stereotypical gym buff dog (something like a dutch shepherd) to my right, 30m away or so. The dog started to run, I noticed the guy instead of calming the dog...he was inciting the dog to go after me. I immediately rode the bike downhill going as fast as possible, not the moment for friendly chat. I felt the dog closer, at some point I hit something with my right pedal, I heard something like a branch cracking and a sad dog cry.

Considering the size of the dog and dog owner, I did not stop until I was far away. I found a few cm of dog skin on my pedal. I think the dog was trying to bit my right foot. The protruding pins that keep your 5-10s on place are perfect dog skull scalpers.



This time was a one of those guys that think letting go his dog after you is a joke or a funny scare. But I've also had close encounters with furry small dogs. Dogs are like this, they think they are defending their masters against a menace and they go kamikaze on bikes. I think I just scalped a bit that dutch shepherd but I can badly injure a smaller one. So I slow down and let the owners calm their furry love and ride away. Yes, they're idiots for not having the dog a leash, but that's no reason to hurt the dogs that literally die for us. We're all sharing the trail, personal responsibility and patience are expected from everyone.
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