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  #41  
Old 23.05.2020, 22:10
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Bicyclists do not have right of way over pedestrians. Regardless of whether they're going up or downhill.
Interesting. Can you prove that?

Being an illegal or non-official trail this is irrelevant in OP's case anyway. But what about MTB-paths? I would think the prioritisation and thereby right of way is in the name.

Further, pedestrians are allowed to use Velowege, bicycle paths, if there's no reserved space for them elsewhere, no sidewalk or hiking trail or equivalent. In such a case they're on "foreign ground" so I would think they have to give way and make room for the bicycles, too.
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Old 24.05.2020, 13:17
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Interesting. Can you prove that?
I refer the right-honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago. Nevertheless, here it is again:
"...dass Fussgänger/-innen auf gemeinsam genutzten Wegen gegenüber Mountainbikern/-innen in jedem Fall Vortritt geniessen. Gemäss Art. 54a der Signalisationsverordnung kennzeichnet der Wegweiser «Route für Mountainbikes» Strecken, die für MTB besonders geeignet sind, und verpflichtet deren Benützer/-innen zu besonderer Rücksicht gegenüber Fussgängern."

"...it is expressly stated that pedestrians always have priority over mountain bikers on shared paths. In accordance with Art. 54a of the Signalisationsverordnung, the signpost “Route for mountain bikes” marks routes that are particularly suitable for MTB and obliges their users to be particularly considerate towards pedestrians."
https://www.bfu.ch/de/services/recht...ike-mtb-fahren
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  #43  
Old 24.05.2020, 14:14
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Interesting. Can you prove that?
Yes I can. But I choose not to.
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  #44  
Old 24.05.2020, 18:47
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Maybe, but it's the law.

However, in all my wanderings on the wanderwegs, I've only once encountered anything less than courtesy from bicyclists.
Number of discourteous bicyclists I've met doubled today. Oh well.
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  #45  
Old 25.05.2020, 00:27
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Just stop. Please. The sign clearly says “this not a bike trail”. For that reason alone, your social distancing argument is just nonsense. If your logic were to be applied universally, then a load of trails of all manner (walking as well as biking) would need to be shut down.

@ OP - more importantly, what bike you riding?

(Otherwise, I’m +1 for asking the Gemeinde)



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  #46  
Old 25.05.2020, 15:38
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Yeah, it is also pretty technical to be forced to jump into the brambles because it becomes evident that the biker speeding down the path you are walking up has absolutely no intention of stopping and starts yelling at you to move. Made me want to rugby tackle him off his bike, what a moron. Did not even slow down. And no, I was not walking on a designated bike trail.
Always a good idea to carry piano wire and string it between trees in places where this happens.
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  #47  
Old 25.05.2020, 16:47
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

Going back to the original point of the thread:

What I find unusual about the pictured signpost is:

*It should include the usual "Veloverbot" symbol (bicycle in a red ring)
* The sign does not state the authority (ie Gemeinde, Forstwirtschaft) . Anonymous signs are a red flag.
Lucky at least these people have been overt on their dislike for MTBers. Some use booby traps or fishing line.

Still, best to highlight the trail on a map and check with the responsible Gemeinde.
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Old 25.05.2020, 16:51
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Going back to the original point of the thread:

What I find unusual about the pictured signpost is:

*It should include the usual "Veloverbot" symbol (bicycle in a red ring)
* The sign does not state the authority (ie Gemeinde, Forstwirtschaft) . Anonymous signs are a red flag.
Lucky at least these people have been overt on their dislike for MTBers. Some use booby traps or fishing line.

Still, best to highlight the trail on a map and check with the responsible Gemeinde.

It's a diy thing put up by a local who's pissed off with the cyclists. Contact the Forstverwaltung if you're worried.
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  #49  
Old 25.05.2020, 20:59
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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... and at least one child will move to the opposite side of the path than the others - and then swap sides at the last moment...
Oh, your kids too, heh?



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It's a diy thing put up by a local who's pissed off with the cyclists. Contact the Forstverwaltung if you're worried.
I also think this is an “independent” action, hence follow-up needed. It may be that this person is right, but AFAIC one is not allowed to take such action unless it is private property. If nothing else, the Gemeinde will clarify what their position is.
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  #50  
Old 28.05.2020, 14:38
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

When it's not allowed it's clearly indicated with an official sign (e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/8WtsWb7y23VDtcox6 ). That is a bog standard passive aggressive fake sign, it could be followed up with sabotage (cord between two trees to decapitate cyclists) but it's very unlikely.
Also 99% of cyclists on trails ring/slow down and even say thank you when you remove your dog from the trail, but it's not a surprise that in zürich it's the opposite.
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  #51  
Old 28.05.2020, 16:12
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Yeah, it is also pretty technical to be forced to jump into the brambles because it becomes evident that the biker speeding down the path you are walking up has absolutely no intention of stopping and starts yelling at you to move. Made me want to rugby tackle him off his bike, what a moron. Did not even slow down. And no, I was not walking on a designated bike trail.
I really dislike those people as they ruin it for the rest of us. I will most likely land in the bramble before I ever let a walker (or especially a dog) be harmed by my ride. I am always overly thankful when people kindly let me pass. If it's impossible, I will just get off my bike and take a break. It sucks but better than the alternative. Now for the bastards who retaliate by putting a wire between the trees, they deserve attempted murder charges or a murder charge if the person is killed. (A man was paralyzed not too long ago in Basel.)
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  #52  
Old 28.05.2020, 16:21
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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I really dislike those people as they ruin it for the rest of us. I will most likely land in the bramble before I ever let a walker (or especially a dog) be harmed by my ride. I am always overly thankful when people kindly let me pass. If it's impossible, I will just get off my bike and take a break. It sucks but better than the alternative. Now for the bastards who retaliate by putting a wire between the trees, they deserve attempted murder charges or a murder charge if the person is killed. (A man was paralyzed not too long ago in Basel.)
I feel the same way, I would never do anything that could cause grievous harm. In my situation, the biker was going so fast that the time between realising he was coming towards me, briefly pondering whether he was going to slow down and having to accept that he was speeding up if anything was pretty short. Part of me wonders whether he simply didn't see me at first but even when I was clearly in his line of sight, he kept his previous speed and stayed bang in the centre of the path. A bit like he was daring me to play chicken. Since I had not anticipated that my walk would involve jumping into the brambles, I was wearing shorts and a t-shirt, so I did get rather scratched.
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  #53  
Old 28.05.2020, 20:08
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

I'm a wobbly old lady walking an even wobblier old dog. I will always get off the path to let a cyclist (and everyone else) pass... but to do so safely I need a bit of time. So a general plea:

When coming up from behind, please give a heads-up with as much lead time as you can. I often can't hear a bicycle coming up from behind until you are right upon us. So if you have a bell, please ring it. If you don't, then call out. Even though my dogs are on lead I need a good 10 -15 seconds to get my deaf old girl's attention, wrassle the other two, and get everybody safely out of the way, especially if the path is lined with electric fences on both sides as many are out here.

I very much appreciate it when a cyclist rings a bell in good time, and will always make way. But please, help me help you.
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  #54  
Old 28.05.2020, 21:56
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

Tomorrow I have time to go to the office and ask, I'll update everyone.

This trail starts on the top of a hill approx 3km away (forest trail distance, not straight line) from the nearest house/parking place. The only people coming here are mountain bikers, horse riders, and trail runners. Casual strollers and people walking the dog never venture that far into the forest. The trail is too small for horse riders and trail runners.....they're friends

The trail is not one of the yellow hiking ones. After reading and translating the links people kindly shared I start to think it's something related to fauna protection. It's not shown on my original photo but some trees were cut some years ago, the large machines that move the trunks left a highway for bicycles in the forest. Then bike riders used a shovel to improve a few turns and make a couple ramps.....and an awesome singletrack was born. I've seen in other forests warnings after trees are cut where people is asked to let the vegetation recover so the wild animals also recover their home.
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Old 29.05.2020, 01:17
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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I very much appreciate it when a cyclist rings a bell in good time, and will always make way. But please, help me help you.
Also, surprisingly many people (of all ages) have trouble hearing the bell's high pitch. Nowadays I usually voice a "ding dong" pretty loudly and soon if I don't see a head turn.
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Old 29.05.2020, 09:11
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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Also, surprisingly many people (of all ages) have trouble hearing the bell's high pitch. Nowadays I usually voice a "ding dong" pretty loudly and soon if I don't see a head turn.
The other day I was on a path outside of Thun, that was wide enough for at least 5 people...there was an elderly couple that managed to take up the whole thing. I could have passed them, but if one of them took a step to the left, it would have been an accident. I started ringing my bell from a far away distance, but they wouldn't budge. I assumed that they could not hear me, so I kindly stopped and recommended that they walk to the side of the path since there are so many bikes speeding by. They basically said "we heard you, we just didn't want to move". Fair enough, but most people aren't as nice as me.
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Old 29.05.2020, 09:23
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

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The other day I was on a path outside of Thun, that was wide enough for at least 5 people...there was an elderly couple that managed to take up the whole thing. I could have passed them, but if one of them took a step to the left, it would have been an accident. I started ringing my bell from a far away distance, but they wouldn't budge. I assumed that they could not hear me, so I kindly stopped and recommended that they walk to the side of the path since there are so many bikes speeding by. They basically said "we heard you, we just didn't want to move". Fair enough, but most people aren't as nice as me.
Switzerland is a small country so unfortunately there is a small proportion of the population here that won't share it!
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Old 29.05.2020, 09:51
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

With Covid there has been a worldwide boom in bicycle sales and given Switzerland is leading the world on uptake of E-bikes in there many forms there needs to be some serious reviews on how this can be accommodated. Hiker vs Biker battle has been ongoing for years and a minority of both create problems for all. A separation and creation of trails for mountain bikers is required but there is little support or discussion on a Cantonal or Federal level bout this rising problem. It is indeed a great problem to have, your population wanting to be outdoors and exercising so surely this should be supported?

I am not a great fan of the Australian system of "work for the dole" (ie unemployment benefits) but it has been put to good use making MTB trails in Australia. It could be put to use here as a stimulus to recover from the economic times we find ourselves in. Your chance of finding a job if you are unemployed at the moment is unlikely but the requirements of x number of job applications to qualify for payment seems like a waste of time, I for one (if I was unemployed) would jump at the chance to get out and do some community projects in return for a reduction in applying for jobs which I have no chance.

https://ministers.dese.gov.au/hartsu...-project-begin
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Old 02.06.2020, 13:33
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

Hello all,

Last Friday, I had a short phone call and then an email with the photo to the Forstverwaltung. Albeit, too much drinking on the long weekend slowed my reply here

Short answer: trail causes habitat fragmentation, therefore illegal.

Long answer: illegal, but not illegal until the end of times. It's possible to build new trails after the community requests for it, but impact studies are needed, some voting, agreements.....a long long process. Not sure if I want to get into local politics

This hill in Suhr remains as a nice place for cardio training in the wide forest trails, no more. I did a longer internet search and it seems there are some legal downhill MTB trails in Auenstein (AG). Go there later this week.
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Old 04.06.2020, 23:27
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Re: Illegaler bike-trail

Presume you know about this https://www.trailnet.ch/
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