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Old 29.05.2020, 11:11
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Nonsense. The metered parking spaces are for everyone, not just for the customers of the shops they are in front of!

True, but that does not give OP the right to expect the shop to supply her with the correct coins and then have a hissy fit and post a passive aggressive review that had nothing whatsoever to do with his business when he declined to.
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  #22  
Old 29.05.2020, 11:15
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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I just left him a good review (of course documenting EXACTLY what happened) and recommended that people go visit his shop because he's probably just hurting and having a bad time like many small businesses right now.
I think it was wrong of you to leave a review without being a customer. The reviews should be for services/products businesses provide to the customers or their attitudes to a customer.

I understand you were hurt and tempted to hurt him in turn though. Sometimes these aggressions come out of nowhere for the most trivial reasons and when you are in stress already. You should have indeed turned off the ignition but he could have told this to you in a polite manner. Unfortunately I see this sort of policing behaviour quite often and almost everyt ime, I am unprepared (usually later I beat myself for not having told them to bog off) Sometimes I do not even understand what the other person is trying to correct. It happens in such random places.

You, like quite a few newcomers thought you could come here and rant but you were met with the usual EF treatment. I do sympathize with you though and do not necessarily think that 'there is another side to the story'.

I wouldn't have gone in to the shop to ask for change though. The guy was being mean and was likely to be petty.
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Old 29.05.2020, 11:19
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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True, but that does not give OP the right to expect the shop to supply her with the correct coins and then have a hissy fit and post a passive aggressive review that had nothing whatsoever to do with his business when he declined to.
That's is a different matter. I just commented on a post that made no sense.

BTW, I understand the OP is more upset at the first part of the altercation where they felt intimidated. The business with the coins is a different matter. I personally wouldn't have asked such a mean person for further help.
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Old 29.05.2020, 11:22
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Be nice, or I will post all the kiddie porn that I downloaded from a broken USB that someone sent me.

Tom
I am not sure if this post should stay here. It might be written in jest but joking about such things should be avoided. It might even put you in trouble.
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Old 29.05.2020, 11:23
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

I just don't get the point of, or worth of, OP's review posted online. What is the aggression and the malice for? Who is to gain anything from it? Nor do I see the sense of posting the story of umbrage here, other than if she/he wants to learn something.
EDIT: Maybe like the opening post of another thread of hers/his: "Is it just me or...?"
https://www.englishforum.ch/complain...nfriendly.html
  1. When I set out driving a car, I am responsible for switching the car off, and removing the key from the ignition, before I get out of the car. This is always the case, no matter what.
  2. If I want to park, I am free to choose any legal parking space, including the one right in front of a shop into which I don't intend to go.
  3. I am responsible for putting sufficient coins into the parking meter. I can plan ahead, and take these coins with me, before I leave home. Or I can hope that some kind person will help me, when I get there. Or I can just not bother to full the meter correctly, and risk the fine.
  4. If any shop-owner, or anyone else, does not want to give me change for the meter, he's completely within his rights. I have no expectation that he must give me change, and he has no obligation do to so.
Surely that's all just adult, responsible behaviour about driving and parking.

Now, even if the man was uncooperative, grumpy or downright nasty, what of it? Why do the counter-nastiness of posting a bad review of him? The more so when she/he was not even a customer.

OP, is all this fuss just because you were disappointed that someone didn't help you out, when you hadn't planned properly?

If, on the other hand, the man is truly dangerous: if, OP, he hit you or threatened you seriously, then that, indeed, is important, and you should try to decide whether or not his behavour is likely to harm anyone else and, if so, you might consider reporting it to the police.

Last edited by doropfiz; 29.05.2020 at 11:46. Reason: adding link to another thread started by OP
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  #26  
Old 29.05.2020, 12:04
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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I never got two (!) CHF 60 parking ticket at once.

Engine idling OBV No. 326.2 CHF 60 (Art. 33 Bst. a VRV)
Key in ignition when not in car OBV No. 317 CHF 60 (Art. 22 Abs. 1 VRV)
Art 33 is about avoidable noise. Leaving the engine idling is indeed avoidable.

Art 22. is clear: drivers that leave their vehicle must stop the engine.

But this left me wondering, I may have broken these 2 laws recently: turning the car on, receiving a warning that the boot is not properly closed, put the car in neutral + parking brake and descended to close once again the boot........without turning the engine off

If the police sees this and a fine is given, no prob. If a bored neighbor without anything better to do with his life comes to tell something I'd simply ignore him. The consequence is that once you make this person upset, you cannot expect any politeness anymore.
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Old 29.05.2020, 12:51
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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But this left me wondering, I may have broken these 2 laws recently: turning the car on, receiving a warning that the boot is not properly closed, put the car in neutral + parking brake and descended to close once again the boot........without turning the engine off
Why would it not be necessary to close the car trunk?

Impairied rearview mirror vision, exhaust being sucked back into the car and dizzying the driver, breaking the hinge and other damage to the car if you need to brake hard, are just a few very solid reasons to close it that come to mind immediately.

The German version of the OrdnungsBussenVerordnung speaks of "verlassen des Fahrzeugs". Like the English "leave", "verlassen" has two meanings:
a) exit, and
b) moving (far) away from and thereby losing control
I would think b) is meant WRT to the fine, otherwise it would be fineable to exit the car in order to open the garage door so you can drive it in. The hand brake alone kind of keeps the car under control in the sense that it won't drive off on its own, probably not even if a child happens to sneak in and change gear.
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Old 29.05.2020, 13:13
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Yeah, OP forgot, that's all. But that's neither here nor there. I don't know the "idling" laws off the top of my head. But IMO, that doesn't constitute an idling violation and even if it does, that's in the range of a parking ticket and who hasn't gotten those before. Preventing somebody's personal movement by intimidation is a whole different story.
She's obviously trying to pretty-paint her own actions. Remember, we only hear one side of the story. She's clearly a petty and vindictive person trying to get revenge without giving the shop owner a chance to show his version of events.

I wouldn't be surprised if hearing the other side would turn the entire thing completely upside down.

Last edited by Urs Max; 29.05.2020 at 13:26.
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Old 29.05.2020, 13:19
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Why would it not be necessary to close the car trunk?

Impairied rearview mirror vision, exhaust being sucked back into the car and dizzying the driver, breaking the hinge and other damage to the car if you need to brake hard, are just a few very solid reasons to close it that come to mind immediately.

The German version of the OrdnungsBussenVerordnung speaks of "verlassen des Fahrzeugs". Like the English "leave", "verlassen" has two meanings:
a) exit, and
b) moving (far) away from and thereby losing control
I would think b) is meant WRT to the fine, otherwise it would be fineable to exit the car in order to open the garage door so you can drive it in. The hand brake alone kind of keeps the car under control in the sense that it won't drive off on its own, probably not even if a child happens to sneak in and change gear.
Well, the law says nothing about neutral/parking and parking brake. I also consider the parking brake is enough in a flat place.....but the law says engine off

Anyway, you need to be doing this in front of the police or cause an accident to get this law enforced.
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Old 29.05.2020, 13:25
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Well, the law says nothing about neutral/parking and parking brake. I also consider the parking brake is enough in a flat place.....but the law says engine off

Anyway, you need to be doing this in front of the police or cause an accident to get this law enforced.

I think that parking is always with the engine off. With a running engine you are stopping.
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Old 29.05.2020, 13:34
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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I think that parking is always with the engine off. With a running engine you are stopping.
It is the amount of time you stand still that dictates if you are parking or stopping.
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Old 29.05.2020, 14:40
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

Here's what happened from the shop-owner's perspective. (Or so I imagine).

I was minding my shop, when a car parked in the metred zone in front. A woman got out and headed to the metre, but she'd left the motor running in her car. I went over her as she fiddled for change, and said to her "Excuse me madam, you've left your engine running, it's not a good idea to do that". She glared at me, then, having realised she didn't have the right coins, went back to her car and switched the engine off. I went back into my shop.

She came in a few seconds later and demanded that I give her the right change for the meter. Given her attitude I didn't feel like be helpful and refused. A few minutes later my mate Dave came in and persuade me to give her the change, so I relented. She then posted a bat-poo crazy "review" on thebusinessreviewsite.ch.

There's some weird people out there.


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Old 29.05.2020, 15:35
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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I think that parking is always with the engine off. With a running engine you are stopping.
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It is the amount of time you stand still that dictates if you are parking or stopping.
This is covered by Art. 21 VRV. And, WRT leaving the motor running, Art. 22 paragraph 1 VRV

The relevant criteria is the reason why, which must be on/offboarding of people and/or on/offloading of goods ("Ein- und Aussteigen, GŁterumschlag"). The latter may include preparation and post processing, respectively, according to the ruling below.

Where a running motor isn't necessary it must be off. Duration, while not entirely irrelevant, is secondary and not per se limited (subject to circumstances of course, on/offloading people shouldn't take longer than a few minutes, if even that). Consequentially, people must be close-ish by and the driver available at very short notice, and be able to remove the obstacle (aka car, truck, etc) quickly if it hinders others unduly.

Ten years ago the Federal Court ruled that using a blue zone parking field for longer than the allowed two hours can be legal. Using the blue zone fields was declared commendable as it reduced the negative impact on everybody else as much as possible, especially on the other's safety. When doing so you must follow standard regulations (use the park time disc on blue fields, feed the meter on white fields, etc).

The courts didn't check/rule on whether the duration was justified (it looks to me like the husband took the wife's goods to the car all alone, fetching the boxes from a 4th or 5th floor attic, probably without a lift). The Cantonal court had referred to the district court, which was of the opinion that "GŁterumschlag" (on-/offloading of goods) doesn't apply to preparatory actions, and thus denied "GŁterumschlag" altogether, with the consequence that it assumed that blue zone time limits apply. However, the Federal Court ruled that "GŁterumschlag" does indeed include preparations, and agreed that depositing the boxes somewhere near the entry, inside or outside of the building, would have been impractical (risk of theft, not enough space, and fire safety), and (based on the accused's unchecked claim that it couldn't have been done quicker) that it was lawful in this case to park the car for longer the blue zone allows.
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Old 29.05.2020, 22:13
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

Is your name Karen OP?
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Old 30.05.2020, 11:52
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Re: Ugh...rude shop owners. Don't they need business right now?

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Is your name Karen OP?

Probably Joyce
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