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  #21  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:08
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

I think both extreme points of view that appear in this thread are unrealistic and unhelpful:
- on one hand it is obvious that we can not function as a society where every single charge is announced and explicitly agreed upon, sometimes it is too much of a burden, other times the price is unknown. Life is made of common sense and assumptions: if I bother my car mechanic for something small, I assume that the price will be small or otherwise they will tell me that. If you believe that everything should have a contract - try to go on a train without a ticket and then say "you did not require me to sign a contract before getting on the train, so the ride is free".
- on the other hand the claim that every single second of your time can be billed is ridiculous: once again, we try to exist with common sense and assume people are not dicks. Next time bill someone for calling the wrong number, or a person on the street asking you for directions.

OP is claiming that, in their opinion, lawyers's action was against common sense - it happens and it's their right to think that. Why making unrealistic statements instead of giving some piece of advice?
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  #22  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:11
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I think it is unjust to charge before some kind of contract has been clearly established between two parties. So any engagement needs to immediately start with "before I read this email / continue this conversation, please accept that the cost will be CHFxxx per minute...and so on:

The onus should on the professional to introduce this to the (prospective)client at the very point they wish to start charging, and allow time for said client the opportunity to consider it.
You are an adult, we assume you are capable of action in your own interests, you could start with asking for an estimate of the costs.... or how you are going to be charged.
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  #23  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:21
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I think it is unjust to charge before some kind of contract has been clearly established between two parties. So any engagement needs to immediately start with "before I read this email / continue this conversation, please accept that the cost will be CHFxxx per minute...and so on:

The onus should on the professional to introduce this to the (prospective)client at the very point they wish to start charging, and allow time for said client the opportunity to consider it.

The onus should be on the person contacting a professional to realise that the professional is not the citizen advice bureau but someone who makes their living by charging out their time and expertise.
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  #24  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:26
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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You are an adult, we assume you are capable of action in your own interests, you could start with asking for an estimate of the costs.... or how you are going to be charged.
The lawyer would probably charge for that too.
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Old 25.06.2020, 16:32
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I got a bill from a lawyer, he charges me for reading my email and doing one
phone call with me.

I did not hired him, because the current situation in my workfield is very bad since march (covid), to become his client , he wanted more then 1000 sfr.

Now i got a bill for nothing.......
it sucks

If you asked this lawyer a question requiring a legally qualified response you did hire him.
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  #26  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:51
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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The onus should be on the person contacting a professional to realise that the professional is not the citizen advice bureau but someone who makes their living by charging out their time and expertise.
Why only professionals? Why can't others do it too?

If someone goes to an ice cream seller and asks for a raspberry ice cream, the seller may say, that's 5 CHF, bitte.

However, if the customer asks the seller to explain what each flavour is and then chooses raspberry, I guess, in your eyes the seller could say, that's 20 CHF.

5CHF for the ice cream and 15 CHF to explain what the flavours are - because in the time he could have been explaining, he may have lost a couple of sale, and time is money.


As I've explained this quite clearly to you and Jim-bob, please could you both PM me so I can provide my IBAN details so I can bill you for the explanation.
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  #27  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:54
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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The onus should be on the person contacting a professional to realise that the professional is not the citizen advice bureau but someone who makes their living by charging out their time and expertise.
I agree nobody should expect such advice for free. But as someone else mentioned here, it shouldn't cost to ask how much it costs.
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Old 25.06.2020, 16:57
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I agree nobody should expect such advice for free. But as someone else mentioned here, it shouldn't cost to ask how much it costs.

How do we know that it did cost to ask that? As per my previous post, I had asked if the email was the first contact OP had, was it a brief introductory email or an in-depth report, and what was the scope of the phone call. Did the lawyer spend an hour giving legal opinion or a 2 minute chat. Without that information impossible to judge who is in the right.
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  #29  
Old 25.06.2020, 17:21
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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How do we know that it did cost to ask that?

I don't know.



However, I am a professional that makes a living by charging money for my time and expertise, and will charge you for responding to your question.


Where can I send my bill of 453.75 CHF?
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  #30  
Old 25.06.2020, 18:28
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I think both extreme points of view that appear in this thread are unrealistic and unhelpful:
- on one hand it is obvious that we can not function as a society where every single charge is announced and explicitly agreed upon, sometimes it is too much of a burden, other times the price is unknown. Life is made of common sense and assumptions: if I bother my car mechanic for something small, I assume that the price will be small or otherwise they will tell me that. If you believe that everything should have a contract - try to go on a train without a ticket and then say "you did not require me to sign a contract before getting on the train, so the ride is free".
- on the other hand the claim that every single second of your time can be billed is ridiculous: once again, we try to exist with common sense and assume people are not dicks. Next time bill someone for calling the wrong number, or a person on the street asking you for directions.

OP is claiming that, in their opinion, lawyers's action was against common sense - it happens and it's their right to think that. Why making unrealistic statements instead of giving some piece of advice?
And you piece of advice is? I must have missed it.
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  #31  
Old 25.06.2020, 18:31
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

Back in 1996 I had a temp job in the billing department of a major City law firm in London. It involved spending all day adding the hours, minutes and seconds up on lawyers' timesheets so clients could be billed for their services. And I can assure you they charged for everything, even if a call only lasted 10 seconds. They kept clocks on their desks like the ones chess players use.
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  #32  
Old 25.06.2020, 18:48
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

Today got another brick coming my way, the tax closing bill for 2019 , so another 4 figure sum to be paid.
The tax office sent 3 updated invoices this year in 2 weeks (after i handed in my tax resume for 2019)


life is a bitch........

The bill from the lawyer sucks really bad.
it is rediculous to have a timer running to charge customers without telling them.
Will not contact a lawyer again.
He is not happy , i am not happy , so loose, loose, there was nothing to win, especially in times like these (corona again).

Last edited by blackbird; 25.06.2020 at 19:26.
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Old 25.06.2020, 18:59
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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Today got another brick coming my way, the tax closing bill for 2019 , so another 4 figure sum to be paid.
The tax office sent 3 updated invoices this year in 2 weeks (after i handed in my tax resume for 2019)
life is a bitch........

The bill from the lawyer sucks really bad.
You have a lawyer for that too?

You live in Thurgau. Before I moved there I was told to be ready to take half a day off work every year to go and discuss their bill. And that's exactly how it was.
I'd walk in there, year after year and pluck their arguments apart. I always came out better (bill cheaper = correct) than before. That's just how it works in Thurgau, no lawyer needed.
Since I moved back to canton Zurich those afternoons are mine again.
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  #34  
Old 25.06.2020, 19:07
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

No , i had a long conversation on the phone (corona) about the arguments i think were right.
He told me, he can't follow my executions, even my ticket for the sbb for 3 months wasn't honored, they honored a local ticket (1400 sfr) for a year, because i took the bicycle from march to december.
I moved there in march last year.
I work in 7km distance (one way) from my flat.

The basis for the tax bill was 55k last year, now it is 75k (after deductions), before tax and deductions it is close to 100k.

Hope due to the short time work since march, i will get money returned next year.
The tax office in zurich is much better, they accept more deductions then that one here.

Last edited by blackbird; 25.06.2020 at 19:32.
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  #35  
Old 25.06.2020, 22:36
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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Today got another brick coming my way, the tax closing bill for 2019 , so another 4 figure sum to be paid.
The tax office sent 3 updated invoices this year in 2 weeks (after i handed in my tax resume for 2019)


life is a bitch........

The bill from the lawyer sucks really bad.
it is rediculous to have a timer running to charge customers without telling them.
Will not contact a lawyer again.
He is not happy , i am not happy , so loose, loose, there was nothing to win, especially in times like these (corona again).
People here have been trying to figure out if the lawyer's bill was justified based on whether the email and phone conversation was just to ask how much the lawyer's time would cost or whether professional advice was offered in them. They have been speculating but you didn't come back to explain. Did you come back to have a rant or to find a solution?

The tax bill is another matter. You earned the money and now you need to pay the taxes. I am sorry the corona situation made things worse for you. Hope things get better.
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  #36  
Old 26.06.2020, 01:08
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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Back in 1996 I had a temp job in the billing department of a major City law firm in London. It involved spending all day adding the hours, minutes and seconds up on lawyers' timesheets so clients could be billed for their services. And I can assure you they charged for everything, even if a call only lasted 10 seconds. They kept clocks on their desks like the ones chess players use.
There is a very big difference between staff charging their time on their timesheet and what actually gets billed to clients. I know this because back in the 90s I used to do the accounts and tax returns for a few well known solicitors firms.

I also know it because I used to lead a team of six at a big four firm of accountants and every month I used to go through the billing records and write off time that would not be charged, usually between two and four weeks of time, depending on the time of the year.
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  #37  
Old 26.06.2020, 01:20
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I agree nobody should expect such advice for free. But as someone else mentioned here, it shouldn't cost to ask how much it costs.
Except that is not what the OP did...

I have no doubt that if the OP contacted a lawyer and asked for information on how much the lawyer charges for their services he’d have been told and that is where it would have ended, if he had decided not to proceed.
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  #38  
Old 26.06.2020, 07:55
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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And we wonder why everyone hates lawyers...
I actually think they're the coolest badasses.

You want services - legal advice, accounting, therapy, dentistry, cleaning, dog walking, you pay every freaking minute involved. Nobody has the duty to accommodate your needs.

Btw, this is coming from someone who worked for free an awful lot of time on various projects....never again.
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Old 26.06.2020, 08:55
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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I got a bill from a lawyer, he charges me for reading my email and doing one
phone call with me.

I did not hired him, because the current situation in my workfield is very bad since march (covid), to become his client , he wanted more then 1000 sfr.

Now i got a bill for nothing.......
it sucks
Do not pay, he is trying to intimidate you. It looks like a fraud attempt to me, he is probably a crook.
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  #40  
Old 26.06.2020, 09:13
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Re: Lawyer Bill for reading my email/phone conversation

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Do not pay, he is trying to intimidate you. It looks like a fraud attempt to me, he is probably a crook.
The only thing your post does is demonstrate the dangers of failing to read a thread before posting....
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