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Old 28.08.2020, 11:18
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Re: Mask dodgers

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And yes, maybe mask-wearing has devastating effects we don't know yet, I'd say its a safe bet though.

Is that really a possibility? Tons of people have to wear masks every day because of their profession - for decades. It's not like 3M was founded yesterday. I would expect that we would have figured out by now if masks were somehow dangerous to them...
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Old 28.08.2020, 11:24
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Is that really a possibility? Tons of people have to wear masks every day because of their profession - for decades. It's not like 3M was founded yesterday. I would expect that we would have figured out by now if masks were somehow dangerous to them...
I can't think of one either. Of course it has an impact on social interactions but so has other stuff.

Tony is bugged that we the government mandates something which annoys or even harms people without conclusive scientific proof. I can relate to that, I just don't see much harm either. Masks aren't 100% effective and may in some cases even account for some infections
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Old 28.08.2020, 12:56
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Is that really a possibility? Tons of people have to wear masks every day because of their profession - for decades. It's not like 3M was founded yesterday. I would expect that we would have figured out by now if masks were somehow dangerous to them...
i think the main one is that people end up touching their face more and end up contracting the disease.

everything seems to have now gone to a discussion of masks as if it was a magic bullet. all the emphasis on not touching face, washing hands seems to have faded.

i expect very few people are using masks as recommended. taking off without touching. disposing of them after use and using a fresh one each time.

i have an unlimited supply of free disposible masks at work and i still use the same one each time for convenience (i wear it only for compliance rather than the belief it will actually help).
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  #204  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:26
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Re: Mask dodgers

I, on the other hand, have noted a marked improvement of compliance with the mask rules since the schools reopened.
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  #205  
Old 28.08.2020, 13:37
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Re: Mask dodgers

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No sir, we two have already established that there is a benefit. Don't you dare taking that away from us.

Discussions with my father in law about CO2 lvls, bill gates and how the srf is manipulating us, are causing me anxiety. If he starts with adenochrome I guess I have to file for divorce

We clearly see risks and benefits differently.

True story, I was worried at the beginning, but I am glad that you don't compare the introduction of ecdemic poisonous animals to an ecosystem with wearing a mask...

And yes, maybe mask-wearing has devastating effects we don't know yet, I'd say its a safe bet though.
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Is that really a possibility? Tons of people have to wear masks every day because of their profession - for decades. It's not like 3M was founded yesterday. I would expect that we would have figured out by now if masks were somehow dangerous to them...
We just don't know, what seems perfectly harmless now can have such severe effects in the future that we're just not aware of. How would ever have imagined that insulating with asbestos could have caused so many problems 50 years ago? Or that encouraging people to buy diesel motors for their cars to combat climate change would have such a drastic effect on air quality?

In Paris today they've announced people now have to wear masks in the street! Whilst one can see the possibility of masks in helping in enclosed spaces, where is the logic or indeed the science behind that?!
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Old 28.08.2020, 13:51
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Re: Mask dodgers

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We just don't know, what seems perfectly harmless now can have such severe effects in the future that we're just not aware of.
You'd have a case if it weren't for the fact that the use of masks in medical settings and industry have been assessed, studied and reviewed for decades. They're not 'new'. I was part of a union action to increase the availability and issue of masks in the workplace to allow colleagues to change them every 2hrs instead of being issued one per 9hr shift. We achieved it using large scale, peer reviewed studies. That was 25yrs ago.
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  #207  
Old 28.08.2020, 14:02
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Re: Mask dodgers

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We just don't know, what seems perfectly harmless now can have such severe effects in the future that we're just not aware of. How would ever have imagined that insulating with asbestos could have caused so many problems 50 years ago? Or that encouraging people to buy diesel motors for their cars to combat climate change would have such a drastic effect on air quality?

In Paris today they've announced people now have to wear masks in the street! Whilst one can see the possibility of masks in helping in enclosed spaces, where is the logic or indeed the science behind that?!
First of all - you are really not that special. Accept that fact and stop fumbling for inadequate comparisons that only further highlight your inadequate understanding.

As for wearing masks in the street, it is a pain but there is a simple explanation in my view: If we accept that touching and half-assedly wearing the mask is likely to reduce effectiveness, then making people just keep it on all the time seems logical. The number of people who don't put it on before getting on the tram is still pretty high here in Zurich and of those, a pretty high percentage doesn't put it on at all or not properly. Again, if you simply have to wear it all the time, this should be reduced.

Surely, this development should motivate people to put in more effort to stop a further spread that may warrant even more restrictions? Especially here in Switzerland where we are still pretty much free to do what we want considering the circumstances?
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  #208  
Old 28.08.2020, 14:06
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Re: Mask dodgers

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If we accept that touching and half-assedly wearing the mask is likely to reduce effectiveness, then making people just keep it on all the time seems logical.
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:11
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Re: Mask dodgers

Many people practically rip off the masks as if they had just run the gauntlet of Hades to save a lost puppy the moment they leave public transport. Or they fumble about with their not recently disinfected hands to put it on before/during alighting. If you have to put it on as soon as you leave your house, you have a higher chance of your hands being clean. Furthermore, it would curb the idiotic chinstrap approach, which effectively only serves to gather any nasties that have made it on to your exposed skin while the mask was on and then push them firmly over your mouth and nose when you pull it back up. Delightful.
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:14
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Re: Mask dodgers

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The fact that you don't understand something fairly simple doesn't make it wrong, nor illogical.

It says more about you, to be honest.
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:21
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You'd have a case if it weren't for the fact that the use of masks in medical settings and industry have been assessed, studied and reviewed for decades. They're not 'new'. I was part of a union action to increase the availability and issue of masks in the workplace to allow colleagues to change them every 2hrs instead of being issued one per 9hr shift. We achieved it using large scale, peer reviewed studies. That was 25yrs ago.
Just wait until the first pictures of hedgehogs tangled up in discarded masks, or great balls of masks that look like jellyfish start washing up on beaches. Or when they discover that wearing masks incorrectly has actually exacerbated the spread of the virus. There is virtually zero studies on the effects of imposing masks on entire populations!
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Old 28.08.2020, 14:35
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Re: Mask dodgers

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The fact that you don't understand something fairly simple doesn't make it wrong, nor illogical.

It says more about you, to be honest.
It's really funny to still see some of you on EF how you refuse to switch on your brains when confronted with coronavirus topic. I guess being scared under the blanket is still comfortable place to be
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Old 28.08.2020, 15:28
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Re: Mask dodgers

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It's really funny to still see some of you on EF how you refuse to switch on your brains when confronted with coronavirus topic. I guess being scared under the blanket is still comfortable place to be
You're projecting again.
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Old 29.08.2020, 11:57
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Just wait until the first pictures of hedgehogs tangled up in discarded masks, or great balls of masks that look like jellyfish start washing up on beaches. Or when they discover that wearing masks incorrectly has actually exacerbated the spread of the virus. There is virtually zero studies on the effects of imposing masks on entire populations!
Which leaves it to be tried out. Unknown situations demand trial and error. I hate these masks and avoid when ever possible to go places they want me to wear one but if that's what they want to try, I will go along with it in shops until we might find out it's an error.
I voted the politicians in to do something when a problem occurs, not to sit back and list all the things that are not proven to function. As we had no corona-situation so far, there is likely not to be proof for what works and what doesn't. We might as well figure it out for the next generation.

I'm actually quite confident that the moment these masks would proof counter productive, the rule will be rescinded her in CH. At the moment the idea is not totally illogical so worth a try I guess.

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You're projecting again.
So did the poster he replied to. So fair enough.
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Old 29.08.2020, 12:44
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Re: Mask dodgers

France is now seeing an exponential rise in Coronavirus cases. Now I was in France in late June and July (West Coast, Bourges, Paris and Alsace) and EVERYWHERE I saw far greater adherence to the Covid recommendations than here in Switzerland. More interestingly, despite masks having not been mandated at this time almost everyone was wearing them (like 99% of people in shops and restaurants). In spite of the masks, there is now exponential rise in cases.

Anders Tegnell, the lead Swedish epidemiologist has said that Sweden will not be making masks mandatory. The reasons being that the science for their medical benefit is lacking, furthermore, Mr Tegnell argues that wearing masks actively makes the situation WORSE! Mr Tegnell pointed at countries that have introduced masks (like Spain and Belgium) and said that where there has been introduction of mandatory masks cases have now increased. I guess he can add France to that list too.

Sweden got it right on the lockdown, it wouldn't surprise me if they are right on masks too!
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Old 29.08.2020, 14:03
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Re: Mask dodgers

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France is now seeing an exponential rise in Coronavirus cases. Now I was in France in late June and July (West Coast, Bourges, Paris and Alsace) and EVERYWHERE I saw far greater adherence to the Covid recommendations than here in Switzerland. More interestingly, despite masks having not been mandated at this time almost everyone was wearing them (like 99% of people in shops and restaurants). In spite of the masks, there is now exponential rise in cases.
They obviously weren't wearing them in restaurants otherwise how did they get the food and drink into their mouths?

Going into restaurants, yes. In them - not.

Have you considered that rates are going up in spite of masks, not because of them?

Obvious reasons:

People are no longer in lock down, which stopped the first wave.
Idiots who were too stupid to stay in their own country were in France in late June and July (West Coast, Bourges, Paris and Alsace).

You ought to wear a mask - to stop that sh1t constantly coming out of your mouth from contaminating others.
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Old 29.08.2020, 14:05
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Re: Mask dodgers

Gloves were recommended in the beginning of coronavirus - now they are absolutely not recommended.

Chances are in 6 months same could be said for masks.
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Old 29.08.2020, 14:13
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Gloves were recommended in the beginning of coronavirus - now they are absolutely not recommended.

.
There was nothing wrong with gloves for protection.
The problem was that people did not know, or understand, or have the capabilities to use them effectively and safely.

Hand washing is more efficient and easy to understand and was part of the glove solution anyway.
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Old 29.08.2020, 14:30
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Re: Mask dodgers

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The problem was that people did not know, or understand, or have the capabilities to use them effectively and safely.
Absolutely the same can be said about the masks
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Old 29.08.2020, 14:53
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Absolutely the same can be said about the masks
I disagree. Masks seem to be most effective in preventing others catching COVID from you.

Even if you contaminate your own mask by constantly fiddling with it, or removing and replacing it, or not using a new or clean one frequently enough, you are unlikely to pass on COVID-19 through nasal or oral exhalations - as long as you are wearing one.
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