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  #221  
Old 29.08.2020, 15:32
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I disagree. Masks seem to be most effective in preventing others catching COVID from you.

Even if you contaminate your own mask by constantly fiddling with it, or removing and replacing it, or not using a new or clean one frequently enough, you are unlikely to pass on COVID-19 through nasal or oral exhalations - as long as you are wearing one.
So with that logic, one should wear a mask and increase the chances of infection with the goal not to spread the disease further?

While by not wearing a mask and keep a simple distance the chances of infection are virtually non existent?
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  #222  
Old 29.08.2020, 15:46
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Gloves were recommended in the beginning of coronavirus - now they are absolutely not recommended.

Chances are in 6 months same could be said for masks.
I don’t actually think gloves were ever really recommended..
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  #223  
Old 29.08.2020, 16:21
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Re: Mask dodgers

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So with that logic, one should wear a mask and increase the chances of infection with the goal not to spread the disease further?
Not washing your hands increases the chance of getting yourself infected - especially if you persist in touching your face, your phone, etc etc irrespective of whether you are wearing a mask or not.

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While by not wearing a mask and keep a simple distance the chances of infection are virtually non existent?
Difficult to do, especially on public transport, without a lock-down, - which you didn't want.
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:24
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I don’t actually think gloves were ever really recommended..
They were mandatory during some period on most UK airports...

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Passengers travelling through some UK airports are being told to cover their faces and wear gloves due to Covid-19.

The new rules will apply to those travelling through Manchester, Stansted and East Midlands airports from Thursday.

Manchester Airports Group (MAG), which owns the sites, said the measure will show "one way in which air travel can be made safe".
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Old 29.08.2020, 16:31
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Re: Mask dodgers

Masks just became mandatory here in the canton of Zurich on Thursday. I was in a rather crowded Migros this morning (Saturday), and while I was grabbing something from a shelf, a guy standing right next to me started coughing. I was thankful that at least we were both wearing masks.

I asked the cashiers at both Migros and Denner if they feel a bit more comfortable now that the customers have to wear masks and they both said that they do.
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  #226  
Old 29.08.2020, 16:48
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Re: Mask dodgers

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They were mandatory during some period on most UK airports...
A trial at three UK airports does not equate to them being mandatory at most airports.
It has always been known that wearing gloves is not really a good idea so even those trials were pretty stupid.
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  #227  
Old 29.08.2020, 17:29
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Re: Mask dodgers

From a study published this week in the British Medical Journal. It's important to note that this is 'considering only asymptomatic individuals'.

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  #228  
Old 29.08.2020, 17:50
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Re: Mask dodgers

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There is virtually zero studies on the effects of imposing masks on entire populations!
Perhaps this analysis of 21 studies which met the criteria set, might be of interest to you... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...649v1.full.pdf

'Conclusions: This study adds additional evidence of the enhanced protective value of mask we stress that the use masks serve as an adjunctive method regarding the COVID-19 outbreak.'
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  #229  
Old 29.08.2020, 18:41
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Perhaps this analysis of 21 studies which met the criteria set, might be of interest to you... https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...649v1.full.pdf

'Conclusions: This study adds additional evidence of the enhanced protective value of mask we stress that the use masks serve as an adjunctive method regarding the COVID-19 outbreak.'
This is basically a sexed up literature review and not the smoking gun you were hoping for I'm afraid.

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The present meta-analysis still has several limitations. First, well-designed high-quality prospective studies and studies of masking in the general public are still insufficient.
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  #230  
Old 29.08.2020, 18:43
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Re: Mask dodgers

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France is now seeing an exponential rise in Coronavirus cases. Now I was in France in late June and July (West Coast, Bourges, Paris and Alsace) and EVERYWHERE I saw far greater adherence to the Covid recommendations than here in Switzerland. More interestingly, despite masks having not been mandated at this time almost everyone was wearing them (like 99% of people in shops and restaurants). In spite of the masks, there is now exponential rise in cases.

Anders Tegnell, the lead Swedish epidemiologist has said that Sweden will not be making masks mandatory. The reasons being that the science for their medical benefit is lacking, furthermore, Mr Tegnell argues that wearing masks actively makes the situation WORSE! Mr Tegnell pointed at countries that have introduced masks (like Spain and Belgium) and said that where there has been introduction of mandatory masks cases have now increased. I guess he can add France to that list too.

Sweden got it right on the lockdown, it wouldn't surprise me if they are right on masks too!
Finally a scientifically founded and peer reviewed strong argument against masks, with a sample size of 1. Congrats!
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  #231  
Old 29.08.2020, 19:10
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Finally a scientifically founded and peer reviewed strong argument against masks, with a sample size of 1. Congrats!
People like you still don't get it, it's not for mask sceptics to prove that masks don't work. We're not asking people to cover their faces, something that is both unnatural and uncomfortable. If rights and freedoms are to be imposed upon, then it is up to those doing making these changes to prove that what they're proposing works!
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  #232  
Old 29.08.2020, 20:08
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Re: Mask dodgers

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People like you still don't get it, it's not for mask sceptics to prove that masks don't work. We're not asking people to cover their faces, something that is both unnatural and uncomfortable. If rights and freedoms are to be imposed upon, then it is up to those doing making these changes to prove that what they're proposing works!
Just what exactly would satisfy your need for "proof?"

Also, let me ask you this... If you were in the grocery store and a stranger standing 50 cm away from you coughed or sneezed, and they had the virus but didn't know it, would you rather they were wearing a mask or none?
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  #233  
Old 29.08.2020, 21:09
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Re: Mask dodgers

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People like you still don't get it, it's not for mask sceptics to prove that masks don't work. We're not asking people to cover their faces, something that is both unnatural and uncomfortable. If rights and freedoms are to be imposed upon, then it is up to those doing making these changes to prove that what they're proposing works!
Then why do you keep writing your "proofs" here? We got it already you think masks don't help. There's no need for tales of how you firsthand experienced (well actually you thought you did) that they don't.

On the other hand, the previous poster is right: what proof would actually satisfy you? I'd think anyone who took one look at a particle simulation of droplets dispersal patterns would need no further proof that having the sneezer wear a mask can only help, yet you are proof (heh!) it doesn't. So, what actual proof do you need?
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  #234  
Old 29.08.2020, 21:19
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Re: Mask dodgers

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People like you still don't get it, it's not for mask sceptics to prove that masks don't work. We're not asking people to cover their faces, something that is both unnatural and uncomfortable. If rights and freedoms are to be imposed upon, then it is up to those doing making these changes to prove that what they're proposing works!
You've writing like one of my kids when they want to go out in the rain and they don't want to put on their waterproof jacket.

"It doesn't look right"

"It's uncomfortable!"

"It's not cool!"

"I don't need it"

"I'm going to get wet anyway"
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  #235  
Old 29.08.2020, 23:06
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You've writing like one of my kids when they want to go out in the rain and they don't want to put on their waterproof jacket.
He's just being contrary and tiresome. Spent good money stocking up on masks back in Feb, but now that it's mandatory, he doesn't want to wear them anymore. I bet your kids do that too
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  #236  
Old 30.08.2020, 08:40
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Re: Mask dodgers

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He's just being contrary and tiresome. Spent good money stocking up on masks back in Feb, but now that it's mandatory, he doesn't want to wear them anymore. I bet your kids do that too
Only the oldest needs to wear a mask regularly - the others seldom but none of them complain.
I guess they're a bit more mature than a few of the forum members on this thread.
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Old 30.08.2020, 08:51
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Just what exactly would satisfy your need for "proof?"

Also, let me ask you this... If you were in the grocery store and a stranger standing 50 cm away from you coughed or sneezed, and they had the virus but didn't know it, would you rather they were wearing a mask or none?
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Then why do you keep writing your "proofs" here? We got it already you think masks don't help. There's no need for tales of how you firsthand experienced (well actually you thought you did) that they don't.

On the other hand, the previous poster is right: what proof would actually satisfy you? I'd think anyone who took one look at a particle simulation of droplets dispersal patterns would need no further proof that having the sneezer wear a mask can only help, yet you are proof (heh!) it doesn't. So, what actual proof do you need?
The proof I'm looking for is the kind that used to be required for public health announcements before governments around the world took leave of their senses. You know, things like high salt intake increases the chances of higher blood pressure, or obesity increases the likelihood of type 2 diabetes, smoking leads to heart disease, alcoholism can result in liver damage etc. You know, the type of research that results in a finding that is undeniably accurate, fact-based and verifiable.

Just look at what was said at the beginning of the pandemic. There has been no ground breaking findings or research between then and now!

https://twitter.com/RichieToon1984/s...39297381830656
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Old 30.08.2020, 09:00
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Re: Mask dodgers

From the above linked BMJ study;
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Short range still imaging of stages of sneezing, revealing the liquid droplets from the 1942 Jennison experiment.


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Long range video imaging over 8 m of the multiphase turbulent cloud (gas cloud containing liquid droplets of all sizes) from natural human violent emission such as a sneeze, revealing a range of the cloud, and its droplet concentrated payload, of up to 7-8 m
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Old 30.08.2020, 09:11
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Re: Mask dodgers

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The proof I'm looking for is the kind that used to be required for public health announcements before governments around the world took leave of their senses. You know, things like high salt intake increases the chances of higher blood pressure, or obesity increases the likelihood of type 2 diabetes, smoking leads to heart disease, alcoholism can result in liver damage etc. You know, the type of research that results in a finding that is undeniably accurate, fact-based and verifiable.

Just look at what was said at the beginning of the pandemic. There has been no ground breaking findings or research between then and now!

https://twitter.com/RichieToon1984/s...39297381830656
I guess you're not aware that face masks were intentionally being discouraged at the beginning of the pandemic because people were buying them up and causing a shortage of them for the medical world?

Here is a good article about the efficacy of face masks that mentions many of the various studies and experiments that have been done and also discusses the reason why they were initially discouraged:

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

But I think you've already made it quite clear that no matter what studies you are shown and no matter what facts and evidence you are given, you are going to stick with your cognitive bias against wearing masks, because well... altering your cognitive bias would require admitting to yourself and to anyone else that you're wrong.
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  #240  
Old 30.08.2020, 09:30
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Re: Mask dodgers

You can maintain your cognitive bias, just perform the3Ws.

Wash your hands,
Watch your distance, and
Wear a mask.

If not for you, for your friends and neighbours.
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