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Old 16.10.2020, 21:49
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I had to go to our neighborhood Migros this evening, which is a small-ish store, and one of the workers in there was not wearing a mask, as usual (I never see her wear a mask in there anymore). She was walking around coughing all over the place. And it was that deep kind of cough, like you know something is not right.

Does anyone know why some workers in the grocery stores do not have to wear masks right now?

At my local Lidl and Aldi, 90% of the workers have their masks down.
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  #282  
Old 16.10.2020, 22:10
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Re: Mask dodgers

I found an outfit for FMF The link said that it is Corona proof


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  #283  
Old 16.10.2020, 22:17
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Really, I would have asked to see the Manager.
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At my local Lidl and Aldi, 90% of the workers have their masks down.
Yeah, I know it must really suck to have to wear masks all day at work. But with the way that woman was walking around coughing all over the place AND not wearing one, I just couldn't help but 'raise an eyebrow' to it. There are a lot of elderly people who go into that Migros.
I admit, I had considered writing Migros about it. And to be honest, the last few times that I've been in that store and she was working, I've heard her coughing without a mask. It was just particularly bad today, I guess. I just have no idea why she isn't wearing one.
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  #284  
Old 16.10.2020, 22:46
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I had to go to our neighborhood Migros this evening, which is a small-ish store, and one of the workers in there was not wearing a mask, as usual (I never see her wear a mask in there anymore). She was walking around coughing all over the place. And it was that deep kind of cough, like you know something is not right.

Does anyone know why some workers in the grocery stores do not have to wear masks right now?
Last time I went to a local store (which was a few days ago), not all the staff was wearing a mask, well at least not those who were arranging goods on shelves.

As for that kind of bad cough, I also used to cough "inconsolably" if there was a lot of dust, one time to the point that an old lady told recommended me to run some tests for asthma... I'm not asthmatic, but if I come across with dust and a few other allergens it can be bad. Sometimes.

Maybe she had a similar problem.
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Old 16.10.2020, 22:49
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Re: Mask dodgers

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What do you propose? I understand it's for my own safety and for the safety of other people too. Since I don't want a second lockdown, this is a really small price to pay. What is all this fuss about?
Most of Europe has had a mandatory mask requirement for months now, yet in spite of this numbers are rising fast and they're introducing second lockdown measures.

The evidence that masks work in a lab is weak at best, the evidence they work within populations is non-existent. It's not that it's a small price to pay, it's rather that it is a pointless exercise that is clearly having no effect.
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  #286  
Old 16.10.2020, 22:54
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Most of Europe has had a mandatory mask requirement for months now, yet in spite of this numbers are rising fast and they're introducing second lockdown measures.

The evidence that masks work in a lab is weak at best, the evidence they work within populations is non-existent. It's not that it's a small price to pay, it's rather that it is a pointless exercise that is clearly having no effect.
Most of these new infections have been contracted within communities i.e. when people socialised without masks. Schools have been open, larger gatherings of people permitted, there are other causes or explanations.
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  #287  
Old 16.10.2020, 22:59
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Most of these new infections have been contracted within communities i.e. when people socialised without masks. Schools have been open, larger gatherings of people permitted, there are other causes or explanations.
In Malta 50% of cases come back to family gatherings, hugging & kissing multi generations.
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  #288  
Old 16.10.2020, 23:08
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Last time I went to a local store (which was a few days ago), not all the staff was wearing a mask, well at least not those who were arranging goods on shelves.

As for that kind of bad cough, I also used to cough "inconsolably" if there was a lot of dust, one time to the point that an old lady told recommended me to run some tests for asthma... I'm not asthmatic, but if I come across with dust and a few other allergens it can be bad. Sometimes.

Maybe she had a similar problem.
Yeah, I wondered if there could be a different reason for her coughing (and not virus-related). But still, considering the amount of people she comes into contact with every day, working with the public, when she's coughing like that, she should really be wearing a mask.
I actually did once notice a cashier in Denner a few weeks ago, who wasn't wearing a mask. I asked her why she didn't have to and she said it was because she had tested negative a few days prior. I found that a bit odd.
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Old 16.10.2020, 23:11
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Re: Mask dodgers

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In Malta 50% of cases come back to family gatherings, hugging & kissing multi generations.
I wonder if the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here in Switzerland will end up disappearing into the past, even after the pandemic has ended. People will get use to not doing it anymore, perhaps. I never liked it, to be honest. It felt fake and awkward.
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  #290  
Old 17.10.2020, 12:01
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I wonder if the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here in Switzerland will end up disappearing into the past, even after the pandemic has ended. People will get use to not doing it anymore, perhaps. I never liked it, to be honest. It felt fake and awkward.
Yes. And its always a problem with which cheek to start with. If you get that wrong you are in deep water!
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  #291  
Old 17.10.2020, 14:16
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I wonder if the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here in Switzerland will end up disappearing into the past, even after the pandemic has ended. People will get use to not doing it anymore, perhaps. I never liked it, to be honest. It felt fake and awkward.
I don't think it will, I don't think they stopped, I got plenty in June in Geneva.
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Old 17.10.2020, 14:23
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I wonder if the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here in Switzerland will end up disappearing into the past, even after the pandemic has ended. People will get use to not doing it anymore, perhaps. I never liked it, to be honest. It felt fake and awkward.
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I don't think it will, I don't think they stopped, I got plenty in June in Geneva.
I noticed, when the French had reopened in July, that the non-brit patrons of our real-ale pub in Abondance were mostly all doing it still. At the time I thought it was just that they thought once lockdown was finished it was all over, but then again maybe they were just being stupid and ignoring the advice on principle.

I think now that it's been around a while this behaviour has diminished - certainly you don't see it in informal settings like supermarkets. I'd hope so, anyway, otherwise I just despair.
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  #293  
Old 17.10.2020, 14:34
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Most of Europe has had a mandatory mask requirement for months now, yet in spite of this numbers are rising fast and they're introducing second lockdown measures.

The evidence that masks work in a lab is weak at best, the evidence they work within populations is non-existent. It's not that it's a small price to pay, it's rather that it is a pointless exercise that is clearly having no effect.
And here you fall into one of the versions of "Prevention Paradoxes". Why do you call this pointless? Do you know what the numbers and situation would be if people would not wear masks? No one ever stated that masks -especially the ones used today and used as lashly- are panacea, this is one of the measures that are here to slow down spread of the epidemics.

I am amazed at the level of utter stupidity and arrogance some people show when they cry out about "my freedom is violated when I am forced to wear a mask", those are well on the the same level as ass**les who would come to the office coughing and sneezing or enter grocery store and sneeze around without even covering their mouth. This is valid not only in Corona times btw.

As of people who have to work in masks: Main issue with simple surgery masks is that they get wet rather quickly and become very inconvenient. This issue is resolved by frequent mask swaps, better yet in combination with valve equipped masks that let out most of moisture through dedicated valve. Employers must be required by law (sadly) to provide their employees such equipment.
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  #294  
Old 17.10.2020, 16:05
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Most of Europe has had a mandatory mask requirement for months now, yet in spite of this numbers are rising fast and they're introducing second lockdown measures.

The evidence that masks work in a lab is weak at best, the evidence they work within populations is non-existent. It's not that it's a small price to pay, it's rather that it is a pointless exercise that is clearly having no effect.
Not actually true - there is plenty of research on this, and the overall result is that in both healthcare and close-proximity public settings there is a reduction in transmission when masks are worn.

For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253999/

The reduction is not that big, but across a whole population it can be significant.
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  #295  
Old 17.10.2020, 16:15
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I wonder if the "kiss, kiss, kiss" greeting here in Switzerland will end up disappearing into the past, even after the pandemic has ended. People will get use to not doing it anymore, perhaps. I never liked it, to be honest. It felt fake and awkward.
I think it's weird when you hardly know the people. 3 is one too many though.

It's not OK now (and much less done hopefully), but I don't think it will disappear. I think many people are missing that kind of closeness.

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Old 17.10.2020, 16:21
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I think it's weird when you hardly know the people. 3 is one too many though.
South of France can be 4
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Old 17.10.2020, 17:42
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Re: Mask dodgers

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I think it's weird when you hardly know the people. 3 is one too many though.

It's not OK now (and much less done hopefully), but I don't think it will disappear. I think many people are missing that kind of closeness.
I still prefer a hug. Maybe it's just a matter of what you're use to... a cultural thing. But I have noticed before that Swiss friends often like to give me a hug instead of doing the kiss-kiss-kiss thing. I remember I once accidentally ended up kissing my best friend's husband on the neck while doing that, because he had moved his head. Oops.
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Old 17.10.2020, 22:28
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Re: Mask dodgers

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And here you fall into one of the versions of "Prevention Paradoxes". Why do you call this pointless? Do you know what the numbers and situation would be if people would not wear masks? No one ever stated that masks -especially the ones used today and used as lashly- are panacea, this is one of the measures that are here to slow down spread of the epidemics.

I am amazed at the level of utter stupidity and arrogance some people show when they cry out about "my freedom is violated when I am forced to wear a mask", those are well on the the same level as ass**les who would come to the office coughing and sneezing or enter grocery store and sneeze around without even covering their mouth. This is valid not only in Corona times btw.

As of people who have to work in masks: Main issue with simple surgery masks is that they get wet rather quickly and become very inconvenient. This issue is resolved by frequent mask swaps, better yet in combination with valve equipped masks that let out most of moisture through dedicated valve. Employers must be required by law (sadly) to provide their employees such equipment.
I call it pointless because it is pointless!

We reduced the rate of infection across Europe without the use of masks. Infections started to rise after masks have been made mandatory. There is no correlation between the rise in the infection rate in countries that use masks and those that don't. There is no correlation either within Switzerland for the infection rate with Cantons that have mandatory masks and those that don't.

You can call it stupidity, but I'll tell you what's really stupid, is the blind faith people have in masks that are clearly having absolutely no effect in keeping the Covid infection rate in check!

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Not actually true - there is plenty of research on this, and the overall result is that in both healthcare and close-proximity public settings there is a reduction in transmission when masks are worn.

For example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7253999/

The reduction is not that big, but across a whole population it can be significant.
Yes, this is just a glorified literature review. It's been posted before, and I've posted scientific papers on these pages that show masks to be ineffective. I can't be bothered to dig them out anymore, it's not like anyone changed their mind anyway.

Masks have been in use long enough across Europe that we should be seeing some sort of benefit by now. As it is, we've seen nothing. Zilch. Rien. The reduction across the whole population is so small, that is it is imperceptible. So what's the point in wearing them again?!
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:53
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You can call it stupidity, but I'll tell you what's really stupid, is the blind faith people have in masks that are clearly having absolutely no effect in keeping the Covid infection rate in check!

You might be right or you might be wrong, we will know once the crisis is over and careful analysis is done.


For now I will disagree with "if brings nothing" argument. If there is a chance that some measure reduces transmission risk AND this measure is as simple and unobtrusive as wearing a mask then it should be done.
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:56
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Re: Mask dodgers

I think it's selfish and ignorant to not wear a mask. Obviously this isn't going to just go away so we need to take sensible precautions. Those people are not sensible and are increasing the potential that things get much, much worse before they get better.
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