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  #401  
Old 20.11.2020, 13:48
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Re: Mask dodgers

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A basic right of the human is fresh clean air and when people are forced to wear a mask outside then this basic right is compromised!
https://www.google.com/search?q=basi...obile&ie=UTF-8
You omitted this bit “ Completely smoke-free indoor environments – with no exceptions – are the only proven way to protect people. 100% smoke-free environments require the elimination of all smoking and tobacco smoke indoors.”

Fresh Clean air can be obtained by wearing masks, although it’s unlikely they get all the tobacco smoke.
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  #402  
Old 20.11.2020, 14:10
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You really have no idea what you are talking about.

It's enough to feel "severe distress" while wearing a face mask and you can be exempt. In the UK you don't even need your GP for this, you can make a self declaration

https://www.burtondocs.co.uk/2020/07...letter-needed/

You guys obsessed with masks are worse than the cult of David Koresh
The "severe distress" is in your head. You don't have the mental maturity/stability to change your mindset and therefore resort to externalising the problem. One of my big fears is suffocating, I wouldn't dream of doing something like deep sea diving. And yet I am fine with wearing a mask because my mindset is that, yes, it feels like I am not getting enough air but it has been repeatedly demonstrated that you do get enough, even with a mask.

It is everyone's responsibility to look after their own health AND ensure that they do not negatively affect other people with their behaviour. If you have a mental health issue that makes you "severely distressed" because you have a bit of fabric over your nose, you should have started seeing someone about that years ago. This low level of resilience is not good. Most importantly, it is never acceptable to have your mental health problems become the problem of someone else without their explicit consent. If you are wondering what qualifies me to make these statements, kindly see further down.

People used to complain about wearing seatbelts, men (and oddly enough, some women) still complain about using condoms and it was actually not that long ago that people rode motorbikes without wearing a helmet. And yet, the benefits hugely outweigh the minor discomfort involved. Is it really that hard to have the level of maturity to say "I disagree with this rule but I am not above the law"? It baffles me that someone can consider themselves to unique and special that the advice of thousands of doctors and experts does not get past their delusions of grandeur.

As for TonyClifton: It was not a personal insult, merely the psychological assessment of someone who actually studied psychology, including four semesters on Psychopathology, Neuropsychology and Behavioural Medicine based on the data you are continuously providing. I would be concerned if any of my friends or family had the misfortune of being in your real-life circle as you strike me as the sort of person who puts others in danger without their knowledge purely for the sense of superiority it affords you.
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Old 20.11.2020, 14:32
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You omitted this bit “ Completely smoke-free indoor environments – with no exceptions – are the only proven way to protect people. 100% smoke-free environments require the elimination of all smoking and tobacco smoke indoors.”
Amen - I wish this was considered by the many many smokers here in Switzerland. I sometimes can't breathe fresh air in my home due to neighbouring smokers...
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  #404  
Old 20.11.2020, 14:56
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Re: Mask dodgers

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As for TonyClifton: It was not a personal insult, merely the psychological assessment of someone who actually studied psychology, including four semesters on Psychopathology, Neuropsychology and Behavioural Medicine based on the data you are continuously providing. I would be concerned if any of my friends or family had the misfortune of being in your real-life circle as you strike me as the sort of person who puts others in danger without their knowledge purely for the sense of superiority it affords you.
A psychological assessment based on the postings on an internet forum are you going to send me a bill next?!

Remarkable how many scientists and experts there are among us, many of whom fail to grasp basic statistics, are unable read a scientific paper properly and are seemingly unable to understand the English language. We are truly blessed!
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  #405  
Old 20.11.2020, 15:36
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Re: Mask dodgers

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From March until June 2020, Switzerland spent more than half a billion francs on importing coronavirus face masks.

Now, that's a lot of masks. Shall I remind you that masks have expiry date?

Somebody needs to wear them otherwise the stock goes to the bin. It's clear why they are mandatory
The expiry date is not that short.

If you take into account the numbers needed for medical personnel plus the general public it wouldn’t actually take that long to get through that many mask if everybody used them as they should.
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  #406  
Old 20.11.2020, 15:42
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Re: Mask dodgers

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A psychological assessment based on the postings on an internet forum are you going to send me a bill next?!

Remarkable how many scientists and experts there are among us, many of whom fail to grasp basic statistics, are unable read a scientific paper properly and are seemingly unable to understand the English language. We are truly blessed!
If anyone is unable to do those things, it is you. You wouldn't be able to identify, much less understand, a peer-reviewed scientific paper if it smacked you in the face. I have read papers from both sides of this discussion, even ones that basically said "not sure, more data needed" and my conclusion is to agree with the generally accepted view. I know this is boring and doesn't give me some misjudged sense of being special but it is what it is. Cherry-picking data to fit what you want to believe is not science.

By the way, you ARE aware that everyone starts studying psychology because they want to find out about people but what they really find out is just how much SPSS slows down your computer when you are running an ANOVA test? Or that selection bias is a real PITA when you are trying to recruit people for your research if you want your results to be representative of the general population? Heck, I love messing about with data so much that I was even doing my own projection stats during the US election. My predictions regarding the approximate time when Biden would take the lead were accurate to within the hour.

Meanwhile, your approach to the subject reminds me of this statisticians joke: It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the oldest.

And yes, my English may not be perfect on account of me growing up in Switzerland, but I have the benefit of being able to read articles and papers on these topics in English, German or French; with each different language comes a different cultural approach to doing this, thus broadening the perspective. Of course, very few papers are published in languages other than English, however, there are interviews where scientists have clarified the results of their research in their own native tongue. So if there is any doubt regarding the intended message of or the data presented in the paper, such interviews offer greater clarity.

I've intentionally been ignoring your obstinate, childish, pretentious drivel for months now but I've had it with you and your little cronies. People like you are not original or brave, yet they have always existed and your antecedents have been forgotten just as you will be forgotten, banished to the back of the box of embarrassing viewpoints once held by parts of humanity. Bravery is overcoming a fear or obstacle at great personal risk - all you are doing is self-aggrandizing yourself at the risk of others.
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  #407  
Old 20.11.2020, 15:52
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Re: Mask dodgers

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If anyone is unable to do those things, it is you. You wouldn't be able to identify, much less understand, a peer-reviewed scientific paper if it smacked you in the face. I have read papers from both sides of this discussion, even ones that basically said "not sure, more data needed" and my conclusion is to agree with the generally accepted view. I know this is boring and doesn't give me some misjudged sense of being special but it is what it is. Cherry-picking data to fit what you want to believe is not science.

By the way, you ARE aware that everyone starts studying psychology because they want to find out about people but what they really find out is just how much SPSS slows down your computer when you are running an ANOVA test? Or that selection bias is a real PITA when you are trying to recruit people for your research if you want your results to be representative of the general population? Heck, I love messing about with data so much that I was even doing my own projection stats during the US election. My predictions regarding the approximate time when Biden would take the lead were accurate to within the hour.

Meanwhile, your approach to the subject reminds me of this statisticians joke: It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the oldest.

And yes, my English may not be perfect on account of me growing up in Switzerland, but I have the benefit of being able to read articles and papers on these topics in English, German or French; with each different language comes a different cultural approach to doing this, thus broadening the perspective. Of course, very few papers are published in languages other than English, however, there are interviews where scientists have clarified the results of their research in their own native tongue. So if there is any doubt regarding the intended message of or the data presented in the paper, such interviews offer greater clarity.

I've intentionally been ignoring your obstinate, childish, pretentious drivel for months now but I've had it with you and your little cronies. People like you are not original or brave, yet they have always existed and your antecedents have been forgotten just as you will be forgotten, banished to the back of the box of embarrassing viewpoints once held by parts of humanity. Bravery is overcoming a fear or obstacle at great personal risk - all you are doing is self-aggrandizing yourself at the risk of others.
Where is the applause emoji???
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  #408  
Old 20.11.2020, 16:09
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Re: Mask dodgers

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If anyone is unable to do those things, it is you. You wouldn't be able to identify, much less understand, a peer-reviewed scientific paper if it smacked you in the face. I have read papers from both sides of this discussion, even ones that basically said "not sure, more data needed" and my conclusion is to agree with the generally accepted view. I know this is boring and doesn't give me some misjudged sense of being special but it is what it is. Cherry-picking data to fit what you want to believe is not science.

By the way, you ARE aware that everyone starts studying psychology because they want to find out about people but what they really find out is just how much SPSS slows down your computer when you are running an ANOVA test? Or that selection bias is a real PITA when you are trying to recruit people for your research if you want your results to be representative of the general population? Heck, I love messing about with data so much that I was even doing my own projection stats during the US election. My predictions regarding the approximate time when Biden would take the lead were accurate to within the hour.

Meanwhile, your approach to the subject reminds me of this statisticians joke: It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the oldest.

And yes, my English may not be perfect on account of me growing up in Switzerland, but I have the benefit of being able to read articles and papers on these topics in English, German or French; with each different language comes a different cultural approach to doing this, thus broadening the perspective. Of course, very few papers are published in languages other than English, however, there are interviews where scientists have clarified the results of their research in their own native tongue. So if there is any doubt regarding the intended message of or the data presented in the paper, such interviews offer greater clarity.

I've intentionally been ignoring your obstinate, childish, pretentious drivel for months now but I've had it with you and your little cronies. People like you are not original or brave, yet they have always existed and your antecedents have been forgotten just as you will be forgotten, banished to the back of the box of embarrassing viewpoints once held by parts of humanity. Bravery is overcoming a fear or obstacle at great personal risk - all you are doing is self-aggrandizing yourself at the risk of others.
Oh dear, still not able to have a sensible discussion without resorting to the childish insults. Here's a book you can read (though I'm sure seeing as you're SO well read in Psychology that you're already well aware of it) that will help you understand how you're feeling. Good bye!

https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy...5881220&sr=8-1
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  #409  
Old 20.11.2020, 16:18
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Good bye!
Bye!
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  #410  
Old 20.11.2020, 16:29
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Oh dear, still not able to have a sensible discussion without resorting to the childish insults. Here's a book you can read (though I'm sure seeing as you're SO well read in Psychology that you're already well aware of it) that will help you understand how you're feeling. Good bye!

https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy...5881220&sr=8-1
To truly have a battle of wits, we would have to be approximate equals, yet I find you to be woefully unarmed. It would simply not be fair.

It is rather amusing that you of all people are trying to school me on cognitive dissonance. I suggest you expand your Internet University Education to include Brehm's studies on reactance. These follow on from Festinger and Schachter's work. Mind you, the most salient piece of research that springs to mind is the Dunning-Kruger effect because you are essentially the poster child for it. Ultracrepidarianism at its finest.
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  #411  
Old 20.11.2020, 18:28
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Re: Mask dodgers

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If anyone is unable to do those things, it is you. You wouldn't be able to identify, much less understand, a peer-reviewed scientific paper if it smacked you in the face. I have read papers from both sides of this discussion, even ones that basically said "not sure, more data needed" and my conclusion is to agree with the generally accepted view. I know this is boring and doesn't give me some misjudged sense of being special but it is what it is. Cherry-picking data to fit what you want to believe is not science.

By the way, you ARE aware that everyone starts studying psychology because they want to find out about people but what they really find out is just how much SPSS slows down your computer when you are running an ANOVA test? Or that selection bias is a real PITA when you are trying to recruit people for your research if you want your results to be representative of the general population? Heck, I love messing about with data so much that I was even doing my own projection stats during the US election. My predictions regarding the approximate time when Biden would take the lead were accurate to within the hour.

Meanwhile, your approach to the subject reminds me of this statisticians joke: It is proven that the celebration of birthdays is healthy. Statistics show that those people who celebrate the most birthdays become the oldest.

And yes, my English may not be perfect on account of me growing up in Switzerland, but I have the benefit of being able to read articles and papers on these topics in English, German or French; with each different language comes a different cultural approach to doing this, thus broadening the perspective. Of course, very few papers are published in languages other than English, however, there are interviews where scientists have clarified the results of their research in their own native tongue. So if there is any doubt regarding the intended message of or the data presented in the paper, such interviews offer greater clarity.

I've intentionally been ignoring your obstinate, childish, pretentious drivel for months now but I've had it with you and your little cronies. People like you are not original or brave, yet they have always existed and your antecedents have been forgotten just as you will be forgotten, banished to the back of the box of embarrassing viewpoints once held by parts of humanity. Bravery is overcoming a fear or obstacle at great personal risk - all you are doing is self-aggrandizing yourself at the risk of others.
It would take a far more cunning linguist than our Tony to find fault with your English! 🙂👏👏👏 (There's the applause emoji Rufus—feel free to steal!)
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  #412  
Old 20.11.2020, 18:45
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Re: Mask dodgers

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The "severe distress" is in your head. You don't have the mental maturity/stability to change your mindset and therefore resort to externalising the problem. One of my big fears is suffocating, I wouldn't dream of doing something like deep sea diving. And yet I am fine with wearing a mask because my mindset is that, yes, it feels like I am not getting enough air but it has been repeatedly demonstrated that you do get enough, even with a mask.

It is everyone's responsibility to look after their own health AND ensure that they do not negatively affect other people with their behaviour. If you have a mental health issue that makes you "severely distressed" because you have a bit of fabric over your nose, you should have started seeing someone about that years ago. This low level of resilience is not good. Most importantly, it is never acceptable to have your mental health problems become the problem of someone else without their explicit consent. If you are wondering what qualifies me to make these statements, kindly see further down.

People used to complain about wearing seatbelts, men (and oddly enough, some women) still complain about using condoms and it was actually not that long ago that people rode motorbikes without wearing a helmet. And yet, the benefits hugely outweigh the minor discomfort involved. Is it really that hard to have the level of maturity to say "I disagree with this rule but I am not above the law"? It baffles me that someone can consider themselves to unique and special that the advice of thousands of doctors and experts does not get past their delusions of grandeur.
You are rambling on for no reason. The law that you quote is very clear, while there is mandatory masks rule, the same rule exempts in certain condition for somebody not to wear a mask. Nobody is above the law here.

Why do you force everybody to wear a mask?

This is what Dr. Roger Hodkinson, Chairman of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons committee in Ottawa says about masks and people like you:

Masks are utterly useless, there is no evidence based for their effectiveness whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling, they’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people and, not saying that in a pejorative sense, seeing these people walking around like lemmings, obeying without any knowledge base, to put the mask on their face.
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  #413  
Old 20.11.2020, 19:22
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Oh dear, still not able to have a sensible discussion without resorting to the childish insults. Here's a book you can read (though I'm sure seeing as you're SO well read in Psychology that you're already well aware of it) that will help you understand how you're feeling. Good bye!

https://www.amazon.com/When-Prophecy...5881220&sr=8-1
Hang in there..Not everyone who's done psy degrees will quickly resort to uncooth name calling and waste time with virtual diagnosis of virtual conflict of virtual personalities. Take it for what it is: just another opinion. There are many here.
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  #414  
Old 20.11.2020, 19:26
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Re: Mask dodgers

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You are rambling on for no reason. The law that you quote is very clear, while there is mandatory masks rule, the same rule exempts in certain condition for somebody not to wear a mask. Nobody is above the law here.

Why do you force everybody to wear a mask?

This is what Dr. Roger Hodkinson, Chairman of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons committee in Ottawa says about masks and people like you:

Masks are utterly useless, there is no evidence based for their effectiveness whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling, they’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people and, not saying that in a pejorative sense, seeing these people walking around like lemmings, obeying without any knowledge base, to put the mask on their face.
Ah yes, pathologists, the doctors who know everything, just sadly too late.

Look closer at your hero, do some unbiased research (confirmation bias is a terrible trap to fall into), he is not quite the hero you make him out to be. I also believe he is the former chairman, would have to check that but have stuff to do.

Ah, yes, MusicChick rushing to ingratiate herself with the poor oppressed free thinkers again. Not all psychologists indeed...
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Old 20.11.2020, 19:39
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Masks are utterly useless, there is no evidence based for their effectiveness whatsoever. Paper masks and fabric masks are simply virtue signalling, they’re not even worn effectively most of the time. It’s utterly ridiculous seeing these unfortunate, uneducated people and, not saying that in a pejorative sense, seeing these people walking around like lemmings, obeying without any knowledge base, to put the mask on their face.
He's implicitly saying there is value in high quality masks though.
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Old 20.11.2020, 20:18
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Hang in there..Not everyone who's done psy degrees will quickly resort to uncooth name calling and waste time with virtual diagnosis of virtual conflict of virtual personalities. Take it for what it is: just another opinion. There are many here.
Fear not, I'm not going anywhere, what I meant is that I won't engage with dinner party bores who have come here to add nothing to the debate and with the sole purpose of being insulting.

Whether it be Kittster who feels that because he/she has read some books it allows them to come up with the hilariously simplified and absurd (can we call it the Chuff diagnosis?) that "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a psychopath", or Tom who prefers to insult my faith having exhausted other avenues.

Perhaps they should ask themselves why they feel the need to be insulting. Use that oh so (allegedly) enormous lexicon of psychology for a bit of self-diagnosis and question what it is that makes one respond to a point of principle with personal attack, something that is both psychologically and philosophically frail.

I remain confident that time will prove me to be correct. Correct on Sweden, correct on lockdowns and eventually correct on how pointless mask mandates are!
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  #417  
Old 20.11.2020, 21:11
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Re: Mask dodgers

Crikey! That escalated!

Now that the weather is cooler, I'm a lot more comfortable wearing one and hardly notice it at all...except for when I sneezed and it splashed back. Summer was a pain. + mask + hot flush = Not fun at all, but you just pull on your big girl/boy pants and crack on with it. If you have a problem with wearing one, and have no medical reason as to why, you're a bit of a wuss to be honest.
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Old 20.11.2020, 21:57
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Re: Mask dodgers

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........


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Fear not, I'm not going anywhere, what I meant is that I won't engage with dinner party bores who have come here to add nothing to the debate and with the sole purpose of being insulting.

Whether it be Kittster who feels that because he/she has read some books it allows them to come up with the hilariously simplified and absurd (can we call it the Chuff diagnosis?) that "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a psychopath", or Tom who prefers to insult my faith having exhausted other avenues.

Perhaps they should ask themselves why they feel the need to be insulting. Use that oh so (allegedly) enormous lexicon of psychology for a bit of self-diagnosis and question what it is that makes one respond to a point of principle with personal attack, something that is both psychologically and philosophically frail.

I remain confident that time will prove me to be correct. Correct on Sweden, correct on lockdowns and eventually correct on how pointless mask mandates are!
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Old 21.11.2020, 00:43
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Re: Mask dodgers

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Ah yes, pathologists, the doctors who know everything, just sadly too late.

Look closer at your hero, do some unbiased research (confirmation bias is a terrible trap to fall into), he is not quite the hero you make him out to be. I also believe he is the former chairman, would have to check that but have stuff to do.

Ah, yes, MusicChick rushing to ingratiate herself with the poor oppressed free thinkers again. Not all psychologists indeed...
Hilarious. I loved the diagonal gaslighting. Hang in there, Kittser.
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Old 21.11.2020, 09:12
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Re: Mask dodgers

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👏👏👏 (There's the applause emoji Rufus—feel free to steal!)
Looks more like a potato with a wig on to me.
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