Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 23.09.2020, 13:26
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,964
Groaned at 23 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,202 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

A woman was fined because the bought a ticket using the mobile app at 19h33m38s before boarding the train. The train was scheduled to depart at 19h33m00s but it was late, otherwise she could have not boarded. WTF?
https://www.20min.ch/story/wegen-38-...n-745001528921

How different is this to buy a ticket in the automat after the scheduled departure time but you can board the train because it is 10 min late? I'm sure I've been in this situation more than once. Risking a 100CHF fine for this?


PS. If I remember well the tickets sold by automats and multiple-travel & day-long tickets that you time stamp don't include seconds.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 23.09.2020, 13:46
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,806
Groaned at 204 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 18,519 Times in 7,560 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Maybe I read the article incorrectly, but it seems it's her word against SBBs. She says that she bought before boarding. SBB say she didn't. The fine was reduced from 130CHF to 30CHF.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 23.09.2020, 13:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,034
Groaned at 291 Times in 220 Posts
Thanked 18,178 Times in 6,369 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

It would fit perfectly in this clip
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 23.09.2020, 13:57
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,761
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,521 Times in 8,661 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I read the article incorrectly, but it seems it's her word against SBBs. She says that she bought before boarding. SBB say she didn't..
Also read it like this. Only enter the train when the app processed the ticket purchase and the ticket is listed in the app. The same as with the ticket automat: Only enter the train once the ticket is has been printed and you grabbed it from the tray.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 23.09.2020, 14:22
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,964
Groaned at 23 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,202 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
Also read it like this. Only enter the train when the app processed the ticket purchase and the ticket is listed in the app. The same as with the ticket automat: Only enter the train once the ticket is has been printed and you grabbed it from the tray.
English FAQ says "Until what point can I buy tickets through SBB Mobile? Up to the beginning of the journey or just before the train departs" Nothing about entering the train. https://www.sbb.ch/en/timetable/mobi...obile/faq.html

What just before the train departs means? I'd assume it's when the train starts moving. Lots of times I've boarded a train that is there 15 min before departure, and they buy the ticket in the app. Much better than freezing outside.

But English is just a translation, not legally enforceable, so let's see French. https://www.sbb.ch/fr/horaire/horaires-mobiles/mobile-cff/faq.html" Jusq'à quel moment puis-je acheter mes billets sur Mobile CFF? Jusqu'au debut de votre voyage, ou just avant le départ du train." It seems boarding the train is irrelevant, what matters is the definition of train departure. My layman interpretation is when the train moves, but maybe it's when the doors close or perhaps it is the scheduled departure time? Which one?
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 23.09.2020, 14:23
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,981
Groaned at 240 Times in 203 Posts
Thanked 23,058 Times in 9,792 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post

PS. If I remember well the tickets sold by automats and multiple-travel & day-long tickets that you time stamp don't include seconds.
Neither do the public versions of SBB timetables include seconds.

I don't think internal ones do either, but they certainly do have half minutes.

So I wonder how any non insider can claim to know a train was scheduled to depart on 00 seconds.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 23.09.2020, 14:31
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,288
Groaned at 343 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 18,795 Times in 9,785 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
Maybe I read the article incorrectly, but it seems it's her word against SBBs. She says that she bought before boarding. SBB say she didn't. The fine was reduced from 130CHF to 30CHF.
Which is just a fee for non-legal processing her claim, so no fine I assume.

CFF and Post are one of those local institutions to go out of their way to correct a situation for a customer, in my experiences.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 23.09.2020, 14:39
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,732
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,790 Times in 10,600 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post

CFF and Post are one of those local institutions to go out of their way to correct a situation for a customer, in my experiences.
I would expect compensation if the train departed 38 seconds late
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 23.09.2020, 15:15
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,288
Groaned at 343 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 18,795 Times in 9,785 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
I would expect compensation if the train departed 38 seconds late
They sometimes give away their Linz cookies in the shape of a train
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MusicChick for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 23.09.2020, 15:35
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,964
Groaned at 23 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,202 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
They sometimes give away their Linz cookies in the shape of a train

Once I got a cookie after the nuisance caused by some work in the Lenzburg station ended
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23.09.2020, 15:43
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,761
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,521 Times in 8,661 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
What just before the train departs means
You can hardly board a train which has departed. Thus, if buy before you actually board (and check that purchase was successful) you will never run in the above mentioned problem.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 23.09.2020, 15:47
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,288
Groaned at 343 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 18,795 Times in 9,785 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
Once I got a cookie after the nuisance caused by some work in the Lenzburg station ended
I got one when they expired that day. Giant cookie How did they know that I had no dina?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23.09.2020, 16:53
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,186
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 2,434 Times in 844 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
You can hardly board a train which has departed. Thus, if buy before you actually board (and check that purchase was successful) you will never run in the above mentioned problem.
The train was late, she bought the ticket 30+ seconds after the originally scheduled time had already past. SBB therefore expects you to sit and wait for the next scheduled train even though the train you would like to take is right in front of you. I had something similar happen to me where I ran to catch the train just in time and jumped on out of breath in front of the conductor. The car I landed happened to be in first class (have 2nd class GA)...therefore I paid for my upgrade as soon as I sat down and the train had just departed. The conductor tried to fine me then despite witnessing the entire circumstance. I was able to negotiate my way out of it...the attempt was totally preposterous.

Typical SBB nonsense, where the high paying customer is never considered and rules are just rules. (Or just a way to gouge more money from you.)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Susie-Q for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at Susie-Q for this post:
  #14  
Old 23.09.2020, 17:08
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 1,964
Groaned at 23 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,202 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
The train was late, she bought the ticket 30+ seconds after the originally scheduled time had already past. SBB therefore expects you to sit and wait for the next scheduled train even though the train you would like to take is right in front of you. I had something similar happen to me where I ran to catch the train just in time and jumped on out of breath in front of the conductor. The car I landed happened to be in first class (have 2nd class GA)...therefore I paid for my upgrade as soon as I sat down and the train had just departed. The conductor tried to fine me then despite witnessing the entire circumstance. I was able to negotiate my way out of it...the attempt was totally preposterous.

Typical SBB nonsense, where the high paying customer is never considered and rules are just rules. (Or just a way to gouge more money from you.)
Once the ticket controller could not validate with SwissPass containing the AG info. The card reader could not read my card, nothing more. I requested him to search my AG info with my name of the number printed on the Pass. He denied my requested and made the fine anyway. Next day I had to go to the SBB office in the train station to cancel the fine. They refused to take my complain on the ticket controller.

I got a car a year ago, almost 20K happy km on it =)
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 23.09.2020, 17:20
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,761
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,521 Times in 8,661 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
The train was late, she bought the ticket 30+ seconds after the originally scheduled time had already past. SBB therefore expects you to sit and wait for the next scheduled train even though the train you would like to take is right in front of you.
Just that this is not the case and not the reason why the person got an extra bill (according the SBB). SBB said the ticked was bought and delivered to the mobile app after the train departed. And it does not make it right when you repeat this false and wrong information. Original schedule does not matter, actual departing time is relevant and that you are in possession of a valid ticked before the actual departure.

T600, Section 3.1.4 "Die Kundinnen und Kunden müssen vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Kurses) im Besitz des E-Tickets sein."
https://www.allianceswisspass.ch/de/...feVorschriften
It doesn't get more official than that. Those are the actual tariff regulations as in force.

So my advice still stands: You can hardly board a train which has departed. Thus, if bought before you actually board (and check that purchase was actually successful as it needs some processing time) you should never run in the above mentioned problem.
__________________
"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 23.09.2020 at 17:34.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 23.09.2020, 17:48
komsomolez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ausserschwyz
Posts: 1,105
Groaned at 33 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 2,113 Times in 817 Posts
komsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond reputekomsomolez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

How does EasyRide via the SBB app do this then? Doesn't that whole concept there imply you need to start travel first before you can get billed?

I once got a 100 CHF fine when (not entirely sober) getting on a S-train during night, had bought a ticket but did not think of the Nachtzuschlag. Conductor treated this like me having no ticket at all. Complained to Ombudsman and fine got reduced to 30 as well.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank komsomolez for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 23.09.2020, 20:04
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,186
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 2,434 Times in 844 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
I got a car a year ago, almost 20K happy km on it =)
Oh man I’d love to... but it would be over 3 hours per day in the car.

Another great customer service story ... I went to upgrade my GA to 1st class permanently due to overcrowding. The man at the customer counter told me that I was “breaking the contract” and treated me with contempt. He then told me I needed to show a new proof of my marriage despite just providing it a few months prior (on a family plan). Since I would have to take a day off to do this (to give them a lot more money per month), in total exasperation, I told him that they would soon lose many customers to cars and he said “That’s OK, the Swiss government will take care of us.”

I really don’t know what the heck has happened to SBB in the past years, or perhaps I was in an happy immigrant bubble before, but I really dislike giving them my hard earned money these days.

Edit: There really are some lovely people working for SBB, primarily the very young employees. It is the 45-65 age group that seem to be the most difficult to deal with - I hope the job didn’t do that to them.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Susie-Q for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 23.09.2020, 20:11
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,186
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 2,434 Times in 844 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
Just that this is not the case and not the reason why the person got an extra bill (according the SBB). SBB said the ticked was bought and delivered to the mobile app after the train departed. And it does not make it right when you repeat this false and wrong information. Original schedule does not matter, actual departing time is relevant and that you are in possession of a valid ticked before the actual departure.

T600, Section 3.1.4 "Die Kundinnen und Kunden müssen vor Antritt der Reise (tatsächliche Abfahrt des Kurses) im Besitz des E-Tickets sein."
https://www.allianceswisspass.ch/de/...feVorschriften
It doesn't get more official than that. Those are the actual tariff regulations as in force.

So my advice still stands: You can hardly board a train which has departed. Thus, if bought before you actually board (and check that purchase was actually successful as it needs some processing time) you should never run in the above mentioned problem.
If she bought a ticket, why does it matter? I really don’t understand the Swiss tendency to being so pedantic about rules that they don’t ever question if they make sense in the first place. Not everyone shows up to the train station 1 hour before departure time and have lives that are so well planned and thought out...
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Susie-Q for this post:
  #19  
Old 23.09.2020, 20:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,184
Groaned at 53 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,390 Times in 818 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
If she bought a ticket, why does it matter?

It's to stop people riding without a ticket but then quickly pressing "buy" if they see an inspector.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 23.09.2020, 20:25
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Bern
Posts: 1,186
Groaned at 215 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 2,434 Times in 844 Posts
Susie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond reputeSusie-Q has a reputation beyond repute
Re: SBB fine for 38 seconds late ticket

Quote:
View Post
It's to stop people riding without a ticket but then quickly pressing "buy" if they see an inspector.
Why would you do that? Inspectors always show up in my experience except on those quick Zurich city trains.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Susie-Q for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Late payment of a simple speeding fine brontozaur Transportation/driving 15 21.04.2020 01:00
Excessive fine for late tax return in Bern ecosse_011172 Finance/banking/taxation 14 21.06.2018 09:35
Late for School-have to pay 160 Frank fine! omtatsat Daily life 25 18.11.2017 18:55
Fine for late payment Penelopy Finance/banking/taxation 8 19.05.2014 13:16
Incorrect ticket/fine fifty-six Transportation/driving 4 01.09.2012 00:50


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0