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  #41  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:34
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Im from Newcastle with parents from Liverpool and Staffordshire. I like it that that's your idea of incomprehensible lol.

Absolutely not- I am saying you have to make the effort to 'get it'. My OH is from Surrey and grew up with a totally flat RP accent- and he could not cope with Stoke speak- I had to translate for him, lol. I remember being in the Peak District and one kid at the YHA was shouting 'I'm stochhh on a rochhhh and I wanna get bachhhhhh' - I had to get a social worker to explain that 'she was stuck on a rock and wanted to get back' - sounded so Swiss German . I can imitate lots of UK accent, but can't for the life of me imitate Geordie.
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  #42  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:46
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Re: Swiss German in School

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But in schools not in the sticks people there will generally change the way they speak and few would speak dialect although they will of course have an accent. Accent is different to dialect.


We had a Chinese lecturer at university once, it was difficult to understand him but after a while we got used to it. He was a really nice guy. One miserable cow (Hi Joanna) decided to start a petition to get him fired. He would give us all photocopied notes at the start of the class - we didn't even need to be thereand in fact several of us would simply turn up take the notes and go away again. Sometimes you've got to take things into your own hands. If you're not learning in lectures then you have to find an alternative way of learning, although I acknowledge that's not really right when you're paying for the courses.

Ouf poor guy.
That reminds me of mathematics professor that I had many many years ago. A Czech or a Czech Jew, something like that. He was quite willing to assemble a string of words in French but the boring stuff like grammar and conjugations escaped him almost completely.

Thankfully we had someone more local for the 'travaux pratiques'.
It was a shame because, like your Chinese, this prof was a pretty interesting and smart fellow.
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  #43  
Old 30.10.2020, 16:13
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Re: Swiss German in School

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This.

I have NEVER heard a Swiss refer to Hochdeutsch!

I once said to a Swiss-German girlfriend that I spoke Swiss-German. "No, you don't, you speak Schriftdeutsch with a Swiss accent!"

Tom
*unhides post to pull him up on his nonsense*

Und ich känne niemer, wo Schriftdüütsch statt Hochdüütsch seit, Härzli. Which of the two of us is the more reliable source of this, the one who was born and bred in Zurich or the chap living in what is effectively an outsourced region of Italy?
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  #44  
Old 30.10.2020, 16:20
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Re: Swiss German in School

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*unhides post to pull him up on his nonsense*

Und ich känne niemer, wo Schriftdüütsch statt Hochdüütsch seit, Härzli. Which of the two of us is the more reliable source of this, the one who was born and bred in Zurich or the chap living in what is effectively an outsourced region of Italy?
I think it’s more of a generation thing. Older people say Schriftdeutsch and the younger call it Hochdeutsch.
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  #45  
Old 30.10.2020, 17:10
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Re: Swiss German in School

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...but can't for the life of me imitate Geordie.
Oh, it's not so hard. I could do it well enough to fool southerners. Funny thing, the Norwegian for "I'm going home" is extraodinarily close to the Geordie. "Ahs gannin yem".

And one time (in our early days there), my wife wanted to write a cheque at the supermarket.
"Who do I make it payable to"
"Bu-aye-ker Tesco".
"Sorry"
"Bu-aye-ker Tesco" (louder)
"How do you spell that?"
"Bu Aye Kay Eeeee Aaaar". (Rolling her eyes)

It wasn't until the lady at the checkout point to the sign did my wife get that it was:
"Byker Tesco". As in the area we were in. "Byker".

(A few years later she did teacher training there and the accent was quite comprehensible by then - shortly after Byker Grove came on TV).
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  #46  
Old 30.10.2020, 18:19
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Oh, it's not so hard. I could do it well enough to fool southerners. Funny thing, the Norwegian for "I'm going home" is extraodinarily close to the Geordie. "Ahs gannin yem".

And one time (in our early days there), my wife wanted to write a cheque at the supermarket.
"Who do I make it payable to"
"Bu-aye-ker Tesco".
"Sorry"
"Bu-aye-ker Tesco" (louder)
"How do you spell that?"
"Bu Aye Kay Eeeee Aaaar". (Rolling her eyes)

It wasn't until the lady at the checkout point to the sign did my wife get that it was:
"Byker Tesco". As in the area we were in. "Byker".

(A few years later she did teacher training there and the accent was quite comprehensible by then - shortly after Byker Grove came on TV).
I would also like to point out that there are actually different dialects in the North East, we are not all Geordies, Flower...

However, we are all fond of adding extra vowels and the Norwegian influence is strong, a few terms I can think of: a child is a bairn, (Norsk: barn), a brook or small stream is a beck (Norsk: bekken), waterfall is force, such as High Force (Norsk: foss) and our hills are usually referred to as fells (Norsk: fjell).
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  #47  
Old 30.10.2020, 23:06
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Many Swiss aren't capable of speaking Proper German Hochdeutsch.
Because officially we don't speak "German Hochdeutsch" in Switzerland, but Swiss Standard German.
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  #48  
Old 31.10.2020, 12:01
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Re: Swiss German in School

Which Swiss German is standard though? lol ahahaha. That depends if you live in Zurich, Bernese Oberland or Upper Wallis, etc.
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  #49  
Old 31.10.2020, 18:12
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Re: Swiss German in School

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The rules of education in Switzerland (German speaking) that education must be done in Schriftsprache (as they most like to call it around here). That covers Primary to Tertiary and further education.
That's interesting, and perhaps I have a blind spot and need to learn something about such rules. Certainly, I've heard of such rules with regard to obligatory primary and secondary school. But I've never heard of it's being a rule or law with regard to tertiary education of any kind.

In any adult education I've ever attended in Switzerland, no matter the type, the norm - in practice - was that most of the time most of the people quite naturally spoke Swiss German dialect. I can't recall ever having attended a course in which everyone remained true to High German the whole time. This, even when the lecturer had commenced by asking whether anyone needed High German, and declared that it would be used. And similarly, most of the time, upon request, anyone who had become forgettfully and lapsed into Swiss German immediately apologised, and the lecturer and the group instantly moved back to High German, until the next slip. Repeat.

I've never found this arrangement to be problematic, in any way at all, except that the person who needs the special measure (High German) is the one who has to make the effort, over and over again, to remind the others to please accommodate them. But then the Swiss German speakers comply, politely, aplogetically, and instantly.

Which authority would be in charge of defining such rules to make High German compulsory? Do you have a link, please?
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  #50  
Old 31.10.2020, 18:27
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Which Swiss German is standard though? lol ahahaha. That depends if you live in Zurich, Bernese Oberland or Upper Wallis, etc.
Swiss German is the dialects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_German. Swiss Standard German is the standard German of Switzerland, which isn't the same as that north of the border https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Standard_German.

@dropfiz - not law, but certainly around Basel, it's the rules in most schools beyond secondary or gym/bms etc. Other cantons may of course vary!

My biggest problem with dialect is not the language but that so often speakers mumble so I can't even hear the words.
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  #51  
Old 01.11.2020, 23:57
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Re: Swiss German in School

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I had to get a social worker to explain that 'she was stuck on a rock and wanted to get back' - sounded so Swiss German . I can imitate lots of UK accent, but can't for the life of me imitate Geordie.

That sounds more scouse than geordie.
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  #52  
Old 02.11.2020, 00:41
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Re: Swiss German in School

Yes indeed, it was, from a childrens' home in Liverpool. Just went on to say Geordie is one accent I have never been able to imitate.
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  #53  
Old 02.11.2020, 12:07
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Re: Swiss German in School

Education in further education is usually profit-based. Although teachers are obliged to teach in Schrift/Hochdeutsch, most don't due to:

1) the market prefers Schweizerdeutsch
2) the teacher prefers Schweizerdeutch
3) there's an expectancy that if you live in the German part of Switzerland, it is up to you to learn Schweizer Deutsch. No one expects you to speak it but it is culturally-accepted that you must learn to understand it. If you don't, you're a jack ass.
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  #54  
Old 02.11.2020, 12:27
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Re: Swiss German in School

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If you don't, you're a jack ass.
Or new, and/or haven't yet attuned your ear and/or haven't yet realised that this is important, and how liberating it is.

But I agree with you that learning to understand Swiss German is a very, very important skill, while living in these parts. The world opens up, once one does.
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  #55  
Old 19.01.2021, 13:06
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Re: Swiss German in School

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I am just very upset with the fact that I pay a school, I am going to the 3ed year of Management BWL with a lot of effort, financially and emotionally.
I am tired of asking the teatchers alllll the time to switch to High German.
I dont know how to deal with that anymore, I have one more year to go, well a bit more, the end of this year and next.

I will write the school about it, but I feel really sad and desappointed at the moment. My new class are a bunch of spoiled kids ( I am already 37) and they confront me and support the teatcher speaking dialekt, which is wrong, since is written in the guidelines of the course that the official languge is German.

Sorry for the emotional msg. Thanks for tipps and constructive messages, maybe it helps me going through a few more months.
@flubber03,

I have discussed this issue with a few born-and-bred Swiss some years ago. Their unanimous opinion was to always, always ask the teacher, the speaker, the trainer, whoever is at whatever is that I'm attending to speak in High German.
And, talking from personal experience when I attended a course where I was the only foreigner in a class of 10 adults, people will understand. I was actually asked by our instructor which language I'm more comfortable with - and he did teach his class in High German, although some questions from the class were coming in Swiss-German. It was fun, embarrassing at times but we all made it through. Of course I felt bad, but that was the only option back then.

It may be useless for OP now, but maybe someone else will encounter the same problem one day.
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Old 20.01.2021, 12:29
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Their unanimous opinion was to always, always ask the teacher, the speaker, the trainer, whoever is at whatever is that I'm attending to speak in High German. And, talking from personal experience when I attended a course where I was the only foreigner in a class of 10 adults,....
Oh course the alternative is that they just don’t invite you to the meeting...

A one point I found myself being invited to meetings instead of my German team lead, who always seemed to have conflicts. When I questioned it I was told they did not want to have to speak high German and the conflicts were planned!

Don’t confuse Swiss people being polite as an indication that they are happy with the situation.
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Old 20.01.2021, 12:40
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Don’t confuse Swiss people being polite as an indication that they are happy with the situation.
I don't.

The alternative would have been to exclude me from the course, as it would have been pointless to attend it, which wasn't what that programme aimed at. I know not everyone was happy, and I wasn't that happy either.

I didn't think these Swiss were particularly polite, that's why I asked them. You seem to believe the Swiss would have hesitated to tell me their true opinion, trust me it's not the case.
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Old 21.01.2021, 01:06
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Re: Swiss German in School

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The rules of education in Switzerland (German speaking) that education must be done in Schriftsprache (as they most like to call it around here). That covers Primary to Tertiary and further education. According to my daughters who've been through the full gamut and are currently at the FHNW:

In primary, the teachers are not supposed to use dialect when teaching. But given that the children only know dialect (usually) when they start, they often switch. My experience was that during parents' evenings, if you requested Schriftssprache, the teachers would honour that. Other parents not (during Q&A), but that's to be expected.

In secondary and on, it's far more expected not to teach in dialect. Some teachers permit it, others will pull students up for speaking dialect.
[/LIST]
I‘m Swiss and I also think OP has every right to ask for German. Primary school probably differs by region. In districts with a high proportion of immigrants like ours, the primary school teachers absolutely insist on German. All ours did, though all but one were Swiss and more comfortable with dialect in private. It‘s doable and shouldn‘t be a pronblem.
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  #59  
Old 21.01.2021, 08:45
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Re: Swiss German in School

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I didn't think these Swiss were particularly polite, that's why I asked them. You seem to believe the Swiss would have hesitated to tell me their true opinion, trust me it's not the case.
I would not trust you.... I’ve been here for over thirty years and I’ve heard all the feel good excuses for expecting groups of locals to conduct business in a foreign language from people who have been here for the best part of a decade and could not be bothered to learn the language. It’s acceptable for a while, but if you are not making an effort, it becomes tiresome at best and many will just minimize there interaction with you.
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Old 21.01.2021, 12:01
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Re: Swiss German in School

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Education in further education is usually profit-based. Although teachers are obliged to teach in Schrift/Hochdeutsch, most don't due to:

1) the market prefers Schweizerdeutsch
2) the teacher prefers Schweizerdeutch
3) there's an expectancy that if you live in the German part of Switzerland, it is up to you to learn Schweizer Deutsch. No one expects you to speak it but it is culturally-accepted that you must learn to understand it. If you don't, you're a jack ass.
I had an English friend who went to live in Wales and totally refused to either try to learn or speak any, and would refuse to even try to understand when spoken to. She also complained bitterly that the Welsh were not very friendly!
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