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-   -   Swiss German in School (https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/300947-swiss-german-school.html)

flubber03 29.10.2020 20:31

Swiss German in School
 
I am just very upset with the fact that I pay a school, I am going to the 3ed year of Management BWL with a lot of effort, financially and emotionally.
I am tired of asking the teatchers alllll the time to switch to High German.
I dont know how to deal with that anymore, I have one more year to go, well a bit more, the end of this year and next.

I will write the school about it, but I feel really sad and desappointed at the moment. My new class are a bunch of spoiled kids ( I am already 37) and they confront me and support the teatcher speaking dialekt, which is wrong, since is written in the guidelines of the course that the official languge is German.

Sorry for the emotional msg. Thanks for tipps and constructive messages, maybe it helps me going through a few more months. :msnblush::msnshock:

Marxb 29.10.2020 20:53

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Hi,


2 things from my experience :


- people prefer dialekt to hoch deutsch, because for them hoch deutsch is like a foreign language

- confront with someone speaking dialekt regarding the way to work/speak/etc. and you instantly lose, you become ostracized toward the group, and you then have to deploy a lot of energy to revert the situation


No solutions, maybe joke, maybe knocking the table while telling a little joke, till they get bored and realize the rythm gets slower if they don't stay to hochdeutsch.


Good luck :D

flubber03 29.10.2020 21:10

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Thanks, that helps a bit... I just dont want to have this feeling that I am beeing disrespected. But thank you.

AbFab 29.10.2020 21:17

Re: Swiss German in School
 
You will only resolve this by moving to Germany...

MusicChick 29.10.2020 21:23

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233176)
Thanks, that helps a bit... I just dont want to have this feeling that I am beeing disrespected. But thank you.

While you call local students "a bunch of spoiled kids"?

Do German 37yr old students who don't speak the local language have some kind of a special entitlement to respect?

Good luck and hang in there. At least you speak Hoch Deutch, can't be so foreign after 3 years here. Just give it a try.

doropfiz 29.10.2020 21:30

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233176)
I just dont want to have this feeling that I am beeing disrespected. But thank you.

Yes, I can understand that. Neither do they. This is Switzerland and they're speaking their mother tongue. This is normal behaviour for them, no matter that the rules say otherwise.

I think the following might help. Source: experience.

Whenever you speak to your lecturers and co-students, before, during and after the classes, or in the breaks, do not speak English. Use High German. That way, at least they know you're trying.

Get yourself some lessons in comprehension of Swiss German. You can do this online, or in your own time by concentrating when listening to the radio. If you are open to it, rather than block it, you might find you gradually "get your ears around it". You might amuse them in the coffee-break by telling them of a new word you've learnt to pronounce.

Stand up in front of the class at the next lesson (or the equivalent online) and say something along these lines:
I'm sorry, folks, I need to ask you about Dialekt and High German, again. I realise that, for you, Dialekt comes naturally, and this is your country, after all, so it makes perfect sense that you speak your mother tongue to one another.
For me, though, it makes it really hard to understand, both the lecturers and the students. I don't want to nag you, yet I do want to participate in the group.
I'd like you to know that I'm really working on trying to understand Dialekt. Even so, please, I need to understand in class, so I'm asking you please to try to remember to speak High German. Thank you.
I know it's easy to forget and slip back into Dialekt, especially since I'm the only one, so I think I'll just raise my hand and wave it a bit, each time, to ask you please to switch back into High German. Thank you.

olygirl 29.10.2020 21:37

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Being on the board of the Auslandschweizer Verein, I must protest Flubber's arrogance. I'm afraid you won't be winning

Auslandschweizer of the Year Award

this year. Perhaps with some fine tuning and change of attitude, you might have a chance again next year.

(Edit: Although deleting your scandalous post was a wise move, it wasn't fast enough.)

flubber03 29.10.2020 21:38

Re: Swiss German in School
 
I guess what makes me more sad is that I am acctually Swiss, family is swiss but I grew up as Auslanschweizer. I went to Swissschool where we learn standard German.
And I think yes, any one is entitled of respect regardless of where they come from.

My leve of German is C1, which is very good...otherwise I couldnt be there...anyway..thanks for message.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3233183)
While you call local students "a bunch of spoiled kids"?

Do German 37yr old students who don't speak the local language have some kind of a special entitlement to respect?

Good luck and hang in there. At least you speak Hoch Deutch, can't be so foreign after 3 years here. Just give it a try.


flubber03 29.10.2020 21:40

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by olygirl (Post 3233192)
Being on the board of the Auslandschweizer Verein, I must protest your arrogance. I'm afraid you won't be winning

Auslandschweizer of the Year Award

this year. Perhaps with some fine tuning and change of attitude, you might have a chance again next year.

Dear Board member, I was an Auslandschweizer for 32 years, so I guess you shouldnt call me arrogant, even because was an emotional message. Is it clear the education and Ausbildungen should be taught in Standard German. Is really desappointing to get a message like this from an institution that I highly respect and I am going to write them personally about your message.

Thank you

flubber03 29.10.2020 21:47

Re: Swiss German in School
 
(Edit: Although deleting your scandalous post was a wise move, it wasn't fast enough.)[/QUOTE]

I dont understand your attitude my dear. You have never wrote something emotional and overreacted? I have no problems and retreating and assuming my few mistakes. But you say I am arrogant, so not really worth the talk with you.

olygirl 29.10.2020 21:48

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233197)
Dear Board member, I was an Auslandschweizer for 32 years, so I guess you shouldnt call me arrogant, even because was an emotional message. Is it clear the education and Ausbildungen should be taught in Standard German. Is really desappointing to get a message like this from an institution that I highly respect and I am going to write them personally about your message.

Thank you

Your letter will be awaited with great interest.

doropfiz 29.10.2020 21:49

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233197)
Is it clear the education and Ausbildungen should be taught in Standard German.

I believe you that this was the case in the Swiss School you attended abroad. Yes, that is often the case in Swiss Schools abroad.

However, in the German-speaking parts of Switzerland, it is considered very usual that education, courses, trainings, workshops, university lectures, etc. are all in Dialekt. This is the norm, not the exception.

The lecturers and the students will, typically, make a special effort to accommodate anyone who does not understand Dialekt, as long as they are asked to do so politely and kindly.

Then, usually, they manage to keep to High German for a while, until one of them forgets, and inadvertently reverts to his or her mother tongue, and then the Dialekt triggers them all - before they even realise it - to revert to their natural languages. At that point, in my experience, it became necessary to ask again, and then, typically, the reaction was: "Oh, yes, sorry, we forgot," and they all switched to High German again, until the next slip-up. Repeat. It worked.

olygirl 29.10.2020 21:54

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233200)

I dont understand your attitude my dear. You have never wrote something emotional and overreacted? I have no problems and retreating and assuming my few mistakes. But you say I am arrogant, so not really worth the talk with you.

I am not your dear.

JackieH 29.10.2020 22:00

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3233203)
Then, usually, they manage to keep to High German for a while, until one of them forgets, and inadvertently reverts to his or her mother tongue, and then the Dialekt triggers them all - before they even realise it - to revert to their natural languages. At that point, in my experience, it became necessary to ask again, and then, typically, the reaction was: "Oh, yes, sorry, we forgot," and they all switched to High German again, until the next slip-up. Repeat. It worked.





Agreed, and yet as they say 'it takes two to tango'. I truly believe that all should make an effort, and the OP should also try to learn and adapt to Swiss German- should be able to if at C1. It seems to me s/he is not prepared to adapt - and that will cause resentment and lack of empathy fro fellow students and lecturers.

Landers 29.10.2020 22:02

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3233188)
I'm sorry, folks, I need to ask you about Dialekt and High German, again. I realise that, for you, Dialekt comes naturally, and this is your country, after all, so it makes perfect sense that you speak your mother tongue to one another.
For me, though, it makes it really hard to understand, both the lecturers and the students. I don't want to nag you, yet I do want to participate in the group.
I'd like you to know that I'm really working on trying to understand Dialekt. Even so, please, I need to understand in class, so I'm asking you please to try to remember to speak High German. Thank you.
I know it's easy to forget and slip back into Dialekt, especially since I'm the only one, so I think I'll just raise my hand and wave it a bit, each time, to ask you please to switch back into High German. Thank you.


Ha ha ha ha ha yeah like that's going to work!


German is one of the national languages and dialekt isn't. I agree that it's frustrating.



Better to say Schriftdeutsch than Hochdeutsch. If you ask someone to talk hochdeutsch you can be immediately insulting them - "Your German's not good enough for me". Many Swiss aren't capable of speaking Proper German Hochdeutsch. Put all the blame on yourself. Explain that you're not German but have only ever learnt Hochdeutsch, that you're trying to pick up the local way of talking but in the meantime could they take your situation into account when they talk so that you can understand. What you want them to do is speak so you can understand - it doesn't have to be perfect high-German. Maybe talk to the lecturere directly, face to face, mask to mask? eye to eye. I think you can't dictate how the students speak.



Or as others might say - "piss off to Germany" and enjoy the language being like gentle kisses to your ears. For me it's such a relief to cross the border! To me German German is like a symphony orchestra compared to high-school music class Swiss German.

flubber03 29.10.2020 22:03

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by doropfiz (Post 3233203)
I believe you that this was the case in the Swiss School you attended abroad. Yes, that is often the case in Swiss Schools abroad.

However, in the German-speaking parts of Switzerland, it is considered very usual that education, courses, trainings, workshops, university lectures, etc. are all in Dialekt. This is the norm, not the exception.

The lecturers and the students will, typically, make a special effort to accommodate anyone who does not understand Dialekt, as long as they are asked to do so politely and kindly.

Then, usually, they manage to keep to High German for a while, until one of them forgets, and inadvertently reverts to his or her mother tongue, and then the Dialekt triggers them all - before they even realise it - to revert to their natural languages. At that point, in my experience, it became necessary to ask again, and then, typically, the reaction was: "Oh, yes, sorry, we forgot," and they all switched to High German again, until the next slip-up. Repeat. It worked.


I agree and desagree. I guess in the case of my school, is what you said. My boyfriend graduated in ETH and all the lectures were in Standard German...so, maybe the pretigious schools are a bit more ''by the book''.
But you are right, I normally ask. I was upset today because the teatcher confronted me, but you know, I pay for the lessons too :)
But I will get over it, I am sure.
Thank you for your kind message.

flubber03 29.10.2020 22:06

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3233210)
Ha ha ha ha ha yeah like that's going to work!


German is one of the national languages and dialekt isn't. I agree that it's frustrating.



Better to say Schriftdeutsch than Hochdeutsch. If you ask someone to talk hochdeutsch you can be immediately insulting them - "Your German's not good enough for me". Many Swiss aren't capable of speaking Proper German Hochdeutsch. Put all the blame on yourself. Explain that you're not German but have only ever learnt Hochdeutsch, that you're trying to pick up the local way of talking but in the meantime could they take your situation into account when they talk so that you can understand. What you want them to do is speak so you can understand - it doesn't have to be perfect high-German. Maybe talk to the lecturere directly, face to face, mask to mask? eye to eye. I think you can't dictate how the students speak.



Or as others might say - "piss off to Germany" and enjoy the language being like gentle kisses to your ears. For me it's such a relief to cross the border! To me German German is like a symphony orchestra compared to high-school music class Swiss German.


Just to make clear, I always ask the teacher to speak Standard German when they exaplain theory and content. I dont mind if my colleagues make questions or they talk generally in Swissgerman. Its part of the game. To be honest, depending on the subject I dont even mind the Swissgerman, but Accounting is really hard for me to understand in Swissgerman.
If they feel offendend, I am very sorry, I always try to explain. I wish my native langauge was Swiss German too.... :(

swisspea 29.10.2020 22:17

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Move to Yorkshire....or Scotland.... or Ireland.... and try telling them they don't speak English...



Yes, I get that Dialekt is harder to grab if you are not familiar.... but it is highly impacting your ability to pass the course or simply making it harder for you ?

MusicChick 29.10.2020 22:17

Re: Swiss German in School
 
If you are lost (not angry) during the class, kids will help you..And ask the teacher for help, people are very helpful when you ask. Not so when you get all angry.

I think it is great that you came here to find out what it's like and it is courageous to study here at 37 and integrate when you aren't from here and only know the foreign version of CH.

Landers 29.10.2020 22:22

Re: Swiss German in School
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber03 (Post 3233211)
I agree and desagree. I guess in the case of my school, is what you said. My boyfriend graduated in ETH and all the lectures were in Standard German...so, maybe the pretigious schools are a bit more ''by the book''.


Some might take offense to what you write here, but I don't as I'm not Swiss. :D To me if you learn German it should be German. It perhaps should be taught in Switzerland as a foreign language. That seems to be the message that we're getting here.


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