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  #21  
Old 30.11.2020, 10:56
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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maybe they were busy with something?
They can be busy, fine, 1-2-3 hours but after that what? Who can expect to stay all night there with no food/water in a below 0 temperature?
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  #22  
Old 30.11.2020, 11:24
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

What is it, I wonder, that makes a human being more concerned about being stuck in stationary traffic for a couple of hours than with the fact that someone died in a road accident?

We've all been in similar situations, I'm sure, but as frustrating as it can be most normal people will reflect on the fact that their own inconvenience is as nothing compared to what's happened to the victim(s) of accidents and accept that the police have certain responsibilities to fulfil before treating the poor people stuck in traffic as a priority.
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  #23  
Old 30.11.2020, 11:28
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

Although I certainly don't condone degrading the police in general, in this case I would say five hours is excessive. If you want this situation to be noticed, call 20 Minuten for an interview or write a letter to the police station or the newspaper.

Personally, I'd write a letter to the police station issuing a complaint but if you want more direct action, write a letter to a local newspaper for it to be published.
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  #24  
Old 30.11.2020, 11:31
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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What is it, I wonder, that makes a human being more concerned about being stuck in stationary traffic for a couple of hours than with the fact that someone died in a road accident?

We've all been in similar situations, I'm sure, but as frustrating as it can be most normal people will reflect on the fact that their own inconvenience is as nothing compared to what's happened to the victim(s) of accidents and accept that the police have certain responsibilities to fulfil before treating the poor people stuck in traffic as a priority.
From 19:30 until midnight, hundreds of cars wait patiently, now that is almost 5 hours, only to be told the motorway isn't being open until the next morning and in less than 3 minutes people find a way to to make a U turn on the motorway and join the opposite direction. 3 minutes, that is all it took some random guy to demolish the barricade and people to start doing U turns. It was not safe, not by any means.

Why the police couldn't send 2 guys in these 5 hours to exit safely the cars? If it took 3 minutes in completly disorganized way, how long would have taken if it was a coordinated action?

We are talking about 5 hours people, not 20 minutes, 1 hour or 2 hours - 5 hours.
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Old 30.11.2020, 11:34
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

I get V's point, the accident is terrible, but it should not be up to the people stuck to figure their way out motorway jam. You can't reverse on an autobahn without police permission, yet you can't go forward as it's blocked.

An hour, yeah sure it happens, 2 hours, ok. When you get to 3-4 hours where they couldn't spare a single officer to open the gate and wave people through to the other side (also closed) then there's someone who missed an item on the to-do list.

If you had an appointment, crap one you missed it. If you had a kid at home you'd want to hope you have someone available to mind them.

The whole thing ought to act as a reminder to include a blanket in your car for winter so when you're car heating says no more you don't freeze your bollox off.
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Old 30.11.2020, 12:38
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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We are talking about 5 hours people, not 20 minutes, 1 hour or 2 hours - 5 hours.
I understand. But how many times did you try to contact the authorities once the 3 h mark passed?
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Old 30.11.2020, 12:50
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

One of the victims was 'ejected'. Sounds like they were not wearing their seat belt.

Darwin was right.
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  #28  
Old 30.11.2020, 12:52
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

It's not a Swiss police specialty. On three occasions in the UK over the years, I've been locked in motorway hold-ups due to accidents.

Each was at least 3 hours with little or no direct information except the radio telling me the motorway is blocked. There was no chance of doing a U-turn with crash barriers. A few tried reversing back down the hard shoulder but gave up when they blocked emergency vehicles.

It's the downside of modern highway driving - when it goes wrong, it goes very wrong...
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  #29  
Old 30.11.2020, 12:58
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

I think all agree that the authorities' priority would be the accident, but being practical, after a point people get restless and they start acting stupidly (i.e. going backwards in the highway etc). That means potentially more accidents, and even bigger problems, so they have to find a balance.


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The whole thing ought to act as a reminder to include a blanket in your car for winter so when you're car heating says no more you don't freeze your bollox off.
In that situation, keep the engine running. Even the largest oldest cars will consume something like 2-3lt/hr at idle, and if it's between staying warm* and emissions or a fine, it's no contest. The situation gets harder if you're in a tunnel and if the fans don't adjust their speed** you can have an issue.



*or stay cool in the summer when sitting at Gotthard traffic with 30+ degrees and the sun baking the car is not an impossibility

**the tunnel fans operate taking into consideration the traffic flow that actually helps move the air in the tunnel - I don't know how advanced these control systems actually are though
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  #30  
Old 30.11.2020, 13:18
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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In that situation, keep the engine running. Even the largest oldest cars will consume something like 2-3lt/hr at idle, and if it's between staying warm* and emissions or a fine, it's no contest. The situation gets harder if you're in a tunnel
It is explicitly forbidden to idle engine in a tunnel traffic jam.
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3 Fahrzeugführer dürfen in Tunneln nur in Notfällen halten. Der Motor ist unverzüglich abzustellen.
Verkehrsregelnverordnung

I can hardly imagine there were no police resources to organise an orderly emptying of the blocked highway stretch at that time (or do they only police at office hours?). It is just either ignorance, incompetence or mentality. Think about people with young kids or sick person needing medication or even another person with some medical emergency travelling in a private car to a hospital. With the police having cars, communications resources and a command center to take care of the coordination and planning, what else were they missing?
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  #31  
Old 30.11.2020, 13:41
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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I can hardly imagine there were no police resources to organise an orderly emptying of the blocked highway stretch at that time (or do they only police at office hours?). It is just either ignorance, incompetence or mentality. Think about people with young kids or sick person needing medication or even another person with some medical emergency travelling in a private car to a hospital. With the police having cars, communications resources and a command center to take care of the coordination and planning, what else were they missing?
It would appear to be leadership.
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  #32  
Old 30.11.2020, 13:59
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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I understand. But how many times did you try to contact the authorities once the 3 h mark passed?
Being trapped on a highway on a cold night due to a traffic accident sounds like reasonable cause to call the police.
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  #33  
Old 30.11.2020, 19:33
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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One of the most annoying things police have to deal with is wannabees who think they know how to do the job better.
It's not a question to try and do better, that is easy, but you really have to try and do worse, even if you try, it will be difficult. Such incompetent people I haven't seen yet.

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Although I certainly don't condone degrading the police in general, in this case I would say five hours is excessive. If you want this situation to be noticed, call 20 Minuten for an interview or write a letter to the police station or the newspaper.

Personally, I'd write a letter to the police station issuing a complaint but if you want more direct action, write a letter to a local newspaper for it to be published.
And than they will pinch me for driving opposite direction on the motorway or destruction of state property, or something like that. No way I am putting an official complaint. The article in the news which asks for witnesses to come in, while it is standard request, I believe it's to trap whoever overpassed the accident while it was happening or few seconds after, from the talk I heard while the police were interviewing the first cars stopped, there were few cars that simply sped on without stopping.

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I understand. But how many times did you try to contact the authorities once the 3 h mark passed?
I didn't try at all, I wasn't gonna bother them while 5 police cars were still present there. Calling and asking, what good will it do while Police is there?

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One of the victims was 'ejected'. Sounds like they were not wearing their seat belt.

Darwin was right.
What I heard was it was a big sedan slamming into a smaller compact car, but yeah if ejected most likely without seatbelt.

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It is explicitly forbidden to idle engine in a tunnel traffic jam.

Verkehrsregelnverordnung

I can hardly imagine there were no police resources to organise an orderly emptying of the blocked highway stretch at that time (or do they only police at office hours?). It is just either ignorance, incompetence or mentality. Think about people with young kids or sick person needing medication or even another person with some medical emergency travelling in a private car to a hospital. With the police having cars, communications resources and a command center to take care of the coordination and planning, what else were they missing?
Yeah even people idling all the time eventually a battery can be drained especially if you charge your phone or watch TV as the alternator isn't turning

I wasn't that bothered to be honest, I only missed a dinner appointment, but there were lots of small children in cars, can't imagine how it was for parents

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Being trapped on a highway on a cold night due to a traffic accident sounds like reasonable cause to call the police.

Sure...but police was already there
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  #34  
Old 30.11.2020, 20:14
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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I didn't try at all, I wasn't gonna bother them while 5 police cars were still present there. Calling and asking, what good will it do while Police is there?
Making them aware about a situation they might not be aware of? Specially the guys in the command room which will pick up the phone a allocate resources as needed. And apart from the police there are more authorities than just the police. It is actually very likely no body else in the hour long traffic called the authorities. Interestingly people rather risk their driving licenses than making a simple phone call.
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Old 30.11.2020, 20:33
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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What is it, I wonder, that makes a human being more concerned about being stuck in stationary traffic for a couple of hours than with the fact that someone died in a road accident?
It shouldn't be a binary choice between attending to the injured person(s) or managing the traffic build-up. The police should be able to do both.

There's a middle way that wasn't taken here. As someone said, you can respectfully / cooperatively wait in your vehicle for an hour, perhaps two -- and that's what the drivers apparently did. But beyond that, the police should at least be asking how to deal with the 500 or so cars just sitting there. I'm guessing that the first few drivers will need to be interviewed in case they witnessed the accident or had dashcam footage, but surely there must be a procedure for helping the other cars to back up and leave the road at the previous exit?

On balance I'm sympathetic to the OP here whose views seem to be responsible. 5 hours on a cold night is out of order. And that opinion doesn't diminish the seriousness of the accident and the personal tragedy involved.
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  #36  
Old 01.12.2020, 10:22
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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They can be busy, fine, 1-2-3 hours but after that what? Who can expect to stay all night there with no food/water in a below 0 temperature?
fu*k me, talk about entitled, this is switzerland, sort yourself out! someone died the police are pretty busy with an investigation not baby sitting a whining auslander. Seriously, try the M25 when a death has happened!! 6 hours would be considered quick!
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Old 01.12.2020, 10:40
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

So just for some balance, I've been stuck in traffic when the motorway has been closed miles ahead, in the uk granted, after a few hours LOTS of police turned up and started directing people to turn around and drive the wrong way up the m25, I was only about 300m or so from the motorway exit and it was total chaos, people are idiots, impatient, it took a lot of police a lot of time to get people to turn around safely and drive slowly to the exit, and of course you still have all the other motorway traffic trying to leave at that junction or the one before. Then to top it all off every single road anywhere near the motorway is gridlocked as everyone is trying to avoid the motorway, and this was in DAYLIGHT.

So I would assume the police chose to leave you all there as it was the best option for everyone else, sucks for you, but at least you got to see your loved ones again.
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  #38  
Old 01.12.2020, 10:50
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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Sure...but police was already there
Ever heard about the squeaky wheel gets the grease? If you don't call attention of the police to your problem, why do you expect them to solve it?

On the other hand, afraid of human interaction? Better to be seating in silence in the cold night instead of......talking to the police already there? That suits really well the online bravado

PS. I'm a lazy guy but my wife would have sent me to talk to the police after one hour
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Old 01.12.2020, 10:51
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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yes sort yourself out, no water in your car? nothing to snack on? where you at any risk of starving to death or dehydration?? thought not, so you're just a whining dick


I should have had a tent, fuel canister, bbq and wood in my trunk. That way I could overnight easily on a below 0 temperature 15km away from Lausanne
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Old 01.12.2020, 10:55
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Re: Swiss (traffic) police - what a joke

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I should have had a tent, fuel canister, bbq and wood in my trunk. That way I could overnight easily on a below 0 temperature 15km away from Lausanne
do you need someone to tell you your arse is dirty and needs a wipe too? maybe now you'll include a coat, blanket and a bottle of water in your car, if only someone like TCS recommended people do that
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