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  #41  
Old 02.03.2021, 11:00
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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The law says that quiet time is quiet. Exceptions are only made for unavoidable noise such as flushing the toilet (yes, that often touted rule is BS) or kids crying. A grown adult having a loud conversation is not "unavoidable". If they can hear you talking at 1 am, then they are well within their rights to complain.
Yeah and Axa even said his conversation with his brother was "tense", which means that his likely had his voice raised without even realizing it.

Still, if it was a one-off then that's life, we all have our problems and I would certainly not be going down to a neighbour to complain at 1am unless the neighbour was doing it repeatedly night after night and my general sleep was suffering.
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  #42  
Old 02.03.2021, 11:06
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Re: phone conversation too loud

Are we ever gonna figure out why Axa was upset on the phone?

I hope you are doing better!


Last edited by MusicChick; 02.03.2021 at 11:18.
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  #43  
Old 02.03.2021, 13:38
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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The law says that quiet time is quiet. Exceptions are only made for unavoidable noise such as flushing the toilet (yes, that often touted rule is BS) or kids crying. A grown adult having a loud conversation is not "unavoidable". If they can hear you talking at 1 am, then they are well within their rights to complain.
Which law exactly?

AFAIK there is no Swiss law that directly controls this, only generic points like the following, then local custom.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...7/en#art_257_f

"Where the lease relates to immovable property, the tenant must show due consideration for others who share the building and for neighbours."

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...233/en#art_684

"1 In exercising their ownership rights, including in particular the right to run a business on his or her land, landowners are obliged to refrain from any excess detrimental to neighbouring properties.

2 In particular all harmful effects that are not justified by the location and character of the land or by local custom such as air pollution emissions of noxious vapours, noise, vibrations, radiation or the deprivation of sunlight or daylight are prohibited."
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  #44  
Old 02.03.2021, 14:20
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Which law exactly?

AFAIK there is no Swiss law that directly controls this, only generic points like the following, then local custom.

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...7/en#art_257_f

"Where the lease relates to immovable property, the tenant must show due consideration for others who share the building and for neighbours."

https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/2...233/en#art_684

"1 In exercising their ownership rights, including in particular the right to run a business on his or her land, landowners are obliged to refrain from any excess detrimental to neighbouring properties.

2 In particular all harmful effects that are not justified by the location and character of the land or by local custom such as air pollution emissions of noxious vapours, noise, vibrations, radiation or the deprivation of sunlight or daylight are prohibited."
To be fair to Kittster and all the people that "thanked" her post, I think we should give her (or them) the chance to provide a link to the the law that she thinks exists.
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Old 02.03.2021, 14:21
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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I get it. The limit is not some objective quantity of decibels, but "loud enough to be heard".
Loud, and/or frequent, enough to disturb your neighbours. Not quite the same.

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That may work next time, for this one...war has started
Yes, of course, because escalating things with your neighbours is always a good idea. Obviously if you retaliate against them they're going to kowtow down to you and be nice as pie for ever after.
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  #46  
Old 02.03.2021, 14:55
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Here you go. https://www.mietrecht.com/ruhezeiten/
This page sets out nicely which laws there are, and are not, and the general principles of what is customary, and that in any case the rules of the house apply.

During the defined quiet times, sounds are not allowed to be more than "room loud". This, too, has a rough definition, and this page says that, broadly, the court rulings say that if the neighbour is disturbed by the noise, then it is too loud.
https://www.mietrecht.com/zimmerlautstaerke/

.
Thanks for the links to some German laws.
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  #47  
Old 02.03.2021, 15:01
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Re: phone conversation too loud

But, if you insist on going by German laws, the following from your links, translated into English shows that Kittster and you are still so very wrong.

To help you, I've made the important bits bold to show you what is unacceptable (compared with, for example, one telephone call):

Disturbance of the night's sleep: what must be accepted?
In apartment buildings, it is not uncommon for a certain level of noise to become established. Depending on who lives in the house, this level can be higher or lower . The equipment and location of the house also contribute to the noises that reach the neighbors . Every now and then a party or a loud TV shouldn't be an occasion to get into an argument with the neighbors.

As a rule, you should be quiet from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. at room volume.
As a rule, you should be quiet from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. at room volume.
However, if it is a continuous disturbance of the peace , attention should be drawn to the applicable rules on night rest and the landlord should then be brought on board. He must ensure that all tenants can use the rental property in accordance with the contract. This also includes enforcing the night's rest .

The public order office or the police can be called at any time in the event of gross disturbances, such as a loud family party that goes on until well after midnight or booming music after 10 p.m.
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  #48  
Old 02.03.2021, 15:19
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Loud, and/or frequent, enough to disturb your neighbours. Not quite the same.

Yes, of course, because escalating things with your neighbours is always a good idea. Obviously if you retaliate against them they're going to kowtow down to you and be nice as pie for ever after.
We'll know later. For the moment, taking things calmly. I'm just notifying the building management about harassment from neighbors.

Also, I'll try to get some advice and recommendations from the Mieterverband in the following days. Promise to share it.
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Old 02.03.2021, 15:21
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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We'll know later. For the moment, taking things calmly. I'm just notifying the building management about harassment from neighbors.
And you think your neighbour asking you to quieten down 'cos he can't sleep at 1am is an over-reaction?

Are you familiar with the (usually tongue-in-cheek, TBF) social media question IATA? I think the answer may be yes, YTA.
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  #50  
Old 02.03.2021, 15:23
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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We'll know later. For the moment, taking things calmly. I'm just notifying the building management about harassment from neighbors.

Also, I'll try to get some advice and recommendations from the Mieterverband in the following days. Promise to share it.
You think that is "harrassment"... really?

As sensitive as your neighbour may be, it sounds like you are overreacting here. You already said that you "reacted like an idiot"... so why continue trying to escalate the situation?
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  #51  
Old 02.03.2021, 15:53
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Did I link to German laws? Oh, dear, silly me, I thought I'd referred to Swiss ones. Oh, well, here's the Swiss Tenant's Association (Mieterverband) on this topic: https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...chtsnahme.html
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Verletzt der Mieter trotz schriftlicher Mahnung des Vermieters seine Pflicht zu Sorgfalt oder Rücksichtnahme weiter, so dass dem Vermieter oder den Hausbewohnern die Fortsetzung des Mietverhältnisses nicht mehr zuzumuten ist, so kann der Vermieter fristlos, bei Wohn- und Geschäftsräumen mit einer Frist von mindestens 30 Tagen auf Ende eines Monats kündigen.
So, time to improve the German. Thanks for the lead....and maybe look for a new place. I got a letter 2 years ago for a new year party. I will laugh a lot (but not too loud) if being noisy alone was enough to get a contract ended. It will be quite a story.
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  #52  
Old 02.03.2021, 16:00
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Did I link to German laws? Oh, dear, silly me, I thought I'd referred to Swiss ones. Oh, well, here's the Swiss Tenant's Association (Mieterverband) on this topic: https://www.mieterverband.ch/mv/miet...chtsnahme.html
Glad we sorted that one out.

In the Swiss one, translated into English:

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How far do I have to be considerate of the other tenants in the house?

Basically, common sense applies. You can lead a normal life in your home
The OP had a friend smoke on one occasion on the balcony and the neighbour complained.
The OP received (or made) a single telephone call in the night and the neighbour complained.

Remind me again: Who is trying to prevent whom leading a normal life?
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  #53  
Old 02.03.2021, 17:20
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Re: phone conversation too loud

Thanks all for your replies. Thanks to them I see the different perspectives. No need to fight among you.

I made a mistake more than 2 years ago with a New Year's Party. Got a letter from the building management to keep it down. Never made another party since then and all parties are at bars or noise friendly restaurants. I've mentioned this in other threads as a lesson learned.

During the first confinement (April 2020) a fried visited and we had the cigarette smoke incident. A woman was shouting at my door and I had no idea what the issue was, got totally by surprise. I simply conceded, no more smoking in the balcony before sunset, we have dinner inside, and bye.

A year later it's the husband who appears shouting at my door and this time I felt it was a mistake to be so apologetic last time. I conceded once, so no reason to be shouted at. I can shout too.

So, thanks all for your replies but I think there should be a middle ground. No noise, but also not yielding to rude people. I already made that mistake once, so no an option to tell them it's OK to shout at me whenever they want and please have this chocolate bar. Whatever happens, I'll face the consequences and come back to tell the story.
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  #54  
Old 02.03.2021, 19:38
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Re: phone conversation too loud

I remember you posting about NYE before ... this is crazy. Is it an Aargau thing because I have a friend with the same issue....?

We all have to live our lives. Respect others, have a little give & take. I don’t blame you for being upset, your neighbor is 100% unreasonable. I would address it directly with the landlord and with the renters association. Best wishes!
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Old 04.03.2021, 14:17
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Re: phone conversation too loud

OP yesterday
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  #56  
Old 04.03.2021, 14:37
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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OP yesterday
Thanks, never knew the original joke, only seen it as a finance twitter meme for BIG CALLS

I had a walk with a friend yesterday in the woods. Some external perspective is always good.

Cool friend: Did he hit you or hit your wife?
Axa: No
Cool friend: Did you hit him?
Axa: No
Cool friend: Did you damaged his car?
Axa: No
Cool friend: Did he damaged YOUR car?
Axa: No
Cool friend: so...nothing happened. Everyone has a bad day.
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Old 04.03.2021, 14:57
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Re: phone conversation too loud

Talking of phone calls

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  #58  
Old 05.03.2021, 09:08
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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Yeh. Don‘t make phone calls at 1 in the morning...
We share the joy of two of our neighbors, Swiss new parents, right above our bedroom (a baby boy, 8 months) and across the living room (a baby girl, 2 months) of our flat.

I am not Swiss, so, for me, a baby crying at any time is the most normal and natural thing to happen. My hubby is Swiss. He is not of the same opinion, and if I would not have stopped him, he would have gone several times to knocl on the door of the neighbours... so yes, Swiss seem to be very sensitive to this 'noise curfew' ...
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Old 05.03.2021, 19:50
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Re: phone conversation too loud

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We share the joy of two of our neighbors, Swiss new parents, right above our bedroom (a baby boy, 8 months) and across the living room (a baby girl, 2 months) of our flat.

I am not Swiss, so, for me, a baby crying at any time is the most normal and natural thing to happen. My hubby is Swiss. He is not of the same opinion, and if I would not have stopped him, he would have gone several times to knocl on the door of the neighbours... so yes, Swiss seem to be very sensitive to this 'noise curfew' ...
I can imagine some poor, sleep deprived mom or dad having to deal with an angry neighbour on top of their baby's colic and own desperation....
Sometimes a baby will just cry. Nobody wants that, least of all sleep deprived parents.

I remember long time ago I used to think that some parents must be really incompetent if the baby cries for so much time, on and on....As somebody used to say "I was a wonderful parent before I had children."
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Old 05.03.2021, 21:53
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Re: phone conversation too loud

My funniest experience in that aspect was in Korea. We were in a cafe with friends when there was a slight cry from a baby. I would have hardly noticed it if not all Korean friends had turned in that direction. Apparently it is considered to be bad manners if you are taking a child less than 3 years old to cafes or restaurants... So as compared to that I cannot say Swiss are particularly harsh
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