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  #21  
Old 09.03.2021, 09:10
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I was nieve never the less there needs to be consumer protection against these people. I will not be the first or last unless something is done about it.
Naive indeed. The situation you have found yourself in is entirely your own fault. I am having trouble comprehending how you even managed to buy a property.
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Old 09.03.2021, 09:27
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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...it would be sensible to get more that one valuation on the house or car before deciding which agent to use or which dealer's offer to accept.
I've noticed more and more real estate agents offering no obligation valuations recently so there is no reason not to get at least 3 quotations.
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  #23  
Old 09.03.2021, 09:42
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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The prices were 'too good to be true'. Put bids on several of them (above the asking price). I wispered to my hubby 'we will never get any of these properties'. In all cases 'we were overbid'. In one case, the Makler (yes, that's how you call real state agents in Austria) told us that 'the owner, in order to give the same chance to everybody, suggested a 'second round of offers' (not sure if this is even legal). Bottomline. I have been following on the 'what happened to the property that we lost'. (yes, I am anal for that). And guess what, as Buckie states, in ALL cases, the house has turned into real state development with 4 - 6 cubic flats...
Well, I know the property development market quite well (I work in a related area on the financing side). Broker finds a fool who wants to sell the house but hasn't done any research about the potential market price, and suggests a price which is 20-30% lower. Selects a buyer who is a "friend". Friend buys the property for a very good price, knocks down the old house and build 12 apartments and makes millions. Everyone makes money except the original seller. Note that it is not just the broker who is shady, as possibly you will find someone from the local housing committee who had to approve the development has suddenly moved into the Attikawohnung (the penthouse on top). I'm not saying there is bribery (in other countries it would be outright bribery), but in every project there are multiple favours done... Part of the business evaluation in my job is the ethical side so that we don't get caught in this, and we see this shit all the time, and in some areas, it's the same people involved every time. That being said, I have seen a lot worse in other countries.

OP, you really should have at least a good idea of how much your property is worth before you engage a broker. You've simply made a bad deal in a market full of sharks.
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Old 09.03.2021, 09:43
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

Finally someone agrees with me instead of nit picking what I should have done. It is the point if in these times where there is two options stock market heavy regulated or real estate you may think twice about the later because there is no governance no code of conduct no regulation no feedback system just expensive lawyers. You might think twice about buying or selling if you know the truth what goes on out there between real estate agents and constructors these are the only people buying up land at moment and they if can will get properties at knock down prices where real estate agent is in there side not the client who they represent. No one wants to earn zero interest in a bank account and many dont want to take on the risk of stock markets where hedge funds are waiting to pounce on you. Does anyone know how to kick off a petition to regulate this industry here or is not like UK ?
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Old 09.03.2021, 09:56
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I was nieve never the less there needs to be consumer protection against these people. I will not be the first or last unless something is done about it.
Done about what, exactly?

Tom
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  #26  
Old 09.03.2021, 10:56
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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Does anyone know how to kick off a petition to regulate this industry here or is not like UK ?
Have you ever actually lived in the UK? You seem to be implying that you have experience of "the industry" there, and that it's a highly regulated field, but your evident lack of experience and knowledge of regulations there doesn't support this. It also appears from your writing that English isn't actually your mother tongue.

It's all a bit confusing really, just as it's unclear what exactly you think should be done. The idea of trying to force estate agents to be 100% accurate in setting a selling price at exactly what a house is worth is quite ludicrous when you think about it. How exactly could that be achieved? If you were indeed going to start some sort of petition you'd really need a little more detail about your proposals than "something should be done", which is all you seem to be saying here.
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Old 09.03.2021, 11:08
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

Who is the best person to ask to independently and fairly assess the market price of a property?
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Old 09.03.2021, 11:12
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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Who is the best person to ask to independently and fairly assess the market price of a property?
You can pay for a valuation, probably from an Architect, he will look at what the land is worth, then determine if the building on the land adds or detracts from the land value. House valued by replacement cost with new & how much it would cost to update existing house, often this costs more than replacement. If so you need to deduct the cost of site clearance from land value. Expect to pay in the region of 1% for such an opinion.
Alternatively advertise & sell by auction with a very low reserve, the 1p start prices do very well on EBay as the greed factor comes into the equation as people want a bargain.
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  #29  
Old 09.03.2021, 11:21
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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This part is VERY TRUE. I have been visiting properties as described (old houses of about 120 - 150 m2 built on the '30s, little or only partially renovated, with garden on plots of 300 - 600 m2) for the last year. Eight of them, to be precise. The prices were 'too good to be true'. Put bids on several of them (above the asking price). I wispered to my hubby 'we will never get any of these properties'. In all cases 'we were overbid'. In one case, the Makler (yes, that's how you call real state agents in Austria) told us that 'the owner, in order to give the same chance to everybody, suggested a 'second round of offers' (not sure if this is even legal). Bottomline. I have been following on the 'what happened to the property that we lost'. (yes, I am anal for that). And guess what, as Buckie states, in ALL cases, the house has turned into real state development with 4 - 6 cubic flats...
But in your story, you're saying you were outbid. Not that the houses sold for 20% under market value. Or are you suggesting some conspiracy to defraud the home owner?

Btw - certainly it's my plan to sell my house to a developer for loadsamoney. Of course the new builds are apartments - houses aren't as popular, the developer can make more money from four (six or eight) apartments on a plot than a house, and all over Switzerland there's places with a shortage of housing.

There's no need for estate agent regulation - to prevent a situation the OP describes, you just have to have a bit of ... well, sense. When you're dealing with 100s of 1000s of francs it's crazy not to get multiple valuations.
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  #30  
Old 09.03.2021, 11:26
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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Who is the best person to ask to independently and fairly assess the market price of a property?
There is a professional qualification for this, held by some estate agents, but not limited to them. In my (limited) experience as a buyer and seller the best starting point would be to ask a local bank who they'd recommend.
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Old 09.03.2021, 12:02
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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But in your story, you're saying you were outbid. Not that the houses sold for 20% under market value. Or are you suggesting some conspiracy to defraud the home owner?

Btw - certainly it's my plan to sell my house to a developer for loadsamoney. Of course the new builds are apartments - houses aren't as popular, the developer can make more money from four (six or eight) apartments on a plot than a house, and all over Switzerland there's places with a shortage of housing.

There's no need for estate agent regulation - to prevent a situation the OP describes, you just have to have a bit of ... well, sense. When you're dealing with 100s of 1000s of francs it's crazy not to get multiple valuations.
I am not suggesting conspiracies. I state facts - 1.initial price was too good to be true . 2. Upper bid (yet, lower than what could be the max value) was rejected. 3. Obviously, I cannot see the offers of the other potential buyers. 4. Does the owner know 100% of the offers of everybody who visits? 5. There are still a lot of asymmetries (as much on market balance supply<> demand as in information) in real state in Switzerland, so it is normal that the situations like the ones described occur. 6. The posting of Axman describes it well - from inside....

Of course, there is absolutely no problem in selling your plot to a real state developer - but, sometimes, people do not mind so much about the money, and more about maintaining historical locations...call me sentimental - yet, without sentiment, our ancestors would not have preserved the center of towns like Paris, Prague, Vienna or Dubrovnik......
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Old 09.03.2021, 12:12
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I am not suggesting conspiracies. I state facts -
I don't think anyone's suggesting otherwise, simply that what you're describing is quite a different scenario than what the OP is complaining about.
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Old 09.03.2021, 13:09
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I am not suggesting conspiracies. I state facts - 1.initial price was too good to be true . 2. Upper bid (yet, lower than what could be the max value) was rejected. 3. Obviously, I cannot see the offers of the other potential buyers. 4. Does the owner know 100% of the offers of everybody who visits? 5. There are still a lot of asymmetries (as much on market balance supply<> demand as in information) in real state in Switzerland, so it is normal that the situations like the ones described occur. 6. The posting of Axman describes it well - from inside....

Of course, there is absolutely no problem in selling your plot to a real state developer - but, sometimes, people do not mind so much about the money, and more about maintaining historical locations...call me sentimental - yet, without sentiment, our ancestors would not have preserved the center of towns like Paris, Prague, Vienna or Dubrovnik......
It is relatively easy to buy properties here I have found. I went to see one property as you describe, same auction situation, multiple rounds of bids. I went back several years later and saw the large old house preserved but now a flat on each level. Trees cut down for car parking. I bet you can now spot those type of faux auction adverts a mile off. Steer clear unless you have cash and are happy to pay a small premium as finance will not be easy. When finance is difficult it could be a sign you are being ripped off.

If you really want a house with garden, you will know from the price, which is about right or 10% low for the area, lets say right next to or convenient for work, you have been looking for 3 years, up it pops on your automated search. Walk up at the first viewing the agent arranges for the property 1 hour early, having not seen the place until that day, with a letter from a bank offering finance on that named building at the asking price. Your bank will do this if it has everything about you, maybe you tried with another property and your bid was rejected. Just a letter saying you are good for credit on that very building at a sale price of the asking price. You don't need to see inside, it won't tell you that much more above photos and seeing outside, location, Bahnhof, etc. The agent will almost certainly put you to the buyer. There will be the usual crowd with low ball offers, and maybe dreamer with a higher offer but no finance letter, but the agent hopefully thinks you are "best". Quite often you can talk to a tenant and ask if it is for sale, would they want to stay on if it sold, etc, in the hour before the viewing. They will have been cleaning their apartment. They want to chat to prospective new landlords. Yes, turn up an hour before the viewing. People are often buzzing about. I got a friend to do this for a place they really wanted. All went really quick and smoothly. Have got 3 or 4 properties for friends now like this. Variations on the theme. It is quite a buzz and fun, especially when it is not your money!
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:04
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I don't think anyone's suggesting otherwise, simply that what you're describing is quite a different scenario than what the OP is complaining about.
I was suggesting that Izzt89 is implying conspiracy.

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4. Does the owner know 100% of the offers of everybody who visits?
Implication: the agents are in collusion with the developers to keep the price low.
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:09
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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Underpricing usually results in a bidding war so a higher price is achieved due to demand.
AbFab writes about underreporting, not underpricing. Underreporting was pretty common here, too, albeit mostly for tax reasons (less capital gain thus less tax due) until perhaps two decades ago.
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:15
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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AbFab writes about underreporting, not underpricing. Underreporting was pretty common here, too, albeit mostly for tax reasons (less capital gain thus less tax due) until perhaps two decades ago.
Well paying 100k in cash under the table was common. In France we paid €50,000 for some furniture, similar game but via the Notaire with a Bank transfer.
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:19
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

Cash is still king.

Tom
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:23
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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I was suggesting that Izzt89 is implying conspiracy.

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Tongue-in-cheek: I will only comment on Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theories, in which I am well versed. Any other is not at the level
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Old 09.03.2021, 19:50
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

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Well paying 100k in cash under the table was common. In France we paid €50,000 for some furniture, similar game but via the Notaire with a Bank transfer.
Yup, something like that. Buy the defunct clunker you can't wait to get rid of for $xyz. Variations of the same game.
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4. Does the owner know 100% of the offers of everybody who visits?
Why would you want to know if you can't be bothered with selling it yourself? Offer 20% premium of every 1k it is sold above your price, but gradually reduce that if the sale takes longer than what you agreed on.
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Old 10.03.2021, 10:41
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Re: Warning tricks makler large real estate agents beware when selling property.

In the UK you start a petition if you want something done about injustices. How does it work in Switzerland to kick something off ? Who would you write to with respect to behavior of real estate agents being unregulated and no code of conduct ?
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