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  #41  
Old 08.04.2021, 13:59
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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So, welcome to the concept of personal responsibility in CH. Adults are treated like adults. You can base jump from any mountain ridge you want or contact EXIT for assisted suicide and there's no nanny state telling you No, that's too risky. Same for contracts, there's the freedom to contract almost anything. But, all the freedom has a price, which is to read contracts like a lawyer.
I must say that I'm surprised to see in 2021 and on the internet someone being so confused by having to read contracts, like, 'it's first time I've seen that'?

My personal rule of thumb is that I skim through many 'terms of x', but sometimes I'm lazy to do that for random sites (which don't involve payment). However, if there's money involved, then I definitely reread a bunch of times (and probably check reviews as well). Unless I decide that I'm willing to take a risk.

I'm currently on the lookout for various CH contracts, and when I compare them to the German ones I had to do in the recent few years, so far those CH ones I've seen are a breeze to read through. Clear, concise, awesome.
Like, up to 5 pages (mostly just 2) vs 30+ in Germany.
For things like pet insurance and similar non trivial stuff.


It's a proven fact that people stay by default, and from the company perspective, it's financially wise to put default that works for them, and they've been doing it for ages.
You're the one who needs their service, their goal is to get the maximum profit from you, your goal is to get the best service for your money, you both have to look for own interests.

BTW, that's also why is wise default to put everyone as an organ donor and offer an opt-out, since people are too lazy to do the opt-in.
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  #42  
Old 08.04.2021, 14:13
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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So how did you conclude that it was misleading?

To be fair it's not explicitly mentioned when you sign up, but you do have to click the box saying you've read and understood the contract, which is, as previously mentioned, a single page, and contains the following clause:
I've seen the contract now and sure there should have been an "aha" moment. It's not like it's pages of legal jargon. I don't particularly want to look into the sign-up process but I would suppose it would/should have said something there also about the indefinite unless cancelled nature. To many (perhaps naive) people a 'trial' means a set period of time but it's the same set-up with almost every trial period - amazon prime etc. Once you know you know I guess.
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  #43  
Old 08.04.2021, 14:16
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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It keeps the interest of both the business and customer by making things more transparent and upfront. Less headache for all involved.
You'd be surprised how many people would object if they HAVE to do more clicks.
People are used to renewals, they're counting on it.

It's "set and forget until you need it" type of approach.

What you might now see as a transparency (because you didn't check properly what you're signing for, let's be honest about that too), is actually a big hurdle for both sides - just imagine if your health insurance would NEED your confirmation every year for the consequent year, and that letter/email gets lost and you forget to ask for it specifically because you were sick or on vacation. And new year comes, you get sick and what then? Who will cover the cost?
Or pet insurance which isn't obligatory.
Or hausrat, haftpflicht, and others....

Opt-out is giving you the freedom while keeping the system running.

And you had opt-in - at the very beginning when you asked for a service.
Why would you have two opt-ins?

Which is basically your complaint - you asked for a service, agreed to its terms (that's opt-in, you just did your choice there), and now complaining that they don't have opt-in.

I think it all boils down to this:

If that would be a service that is not by default a subscription but then 'automagically' becomes one, I'd be more inclined to agree with you, since in that situation opt-in for the subscription wasn't done.

However, that doesn't hold for a service that functions on a subscription model, and that part wasn't misleading at all in your case. Trials are for 'testing the service' and if you're happy with it - you'll continue using it, and if you're not happy with it - you'll cancel it.
I mean, that's the core purpose of trials.

How on the earth should company know that you aren't happy with the service you've signed up for if you don't tell them?

Trials are just specially allocated time for you to test the service and get out of it easily if you want that.

Of course you have right to complain later if service isn't what you've signed up for, but the process is different than in the trial periods when it's enough to say 'yeah don't want it anymore, please cancel it'.

And yes, trials are usually limited in nature, they don't run indefinitely.
But they are not a separate products with fixed duration.
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  #44  
Old 08.04.2021, 14:32
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

Usually, I am not very lenient if one does not read the terms of the contract one enters into. However, if one reads the advertising on the Mobility page:
https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...l-subscription which states "Hop in with our trial subscription: you can try Mobility for four months without any obligation for a subscription fee of CHF 43 – complete flexibility at an affordable drive rate."

The phrase "without any obligation" could give the impression that there is no automatic renewal...
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  #45  
Old 08.04.2021, 14:34
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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I don't particularly want to look into the sign-up process but I would suppose it would/should have said something there also about the indefinite unless cancelled nature.
It doesn't.

TIS, where "reasonable" business practice could be said to include: "we could never imagine anyone signing the agreement without having read the contract".
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  #46  
Old 08.04.2021, 14:55
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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It doesn't.

TIS, where "reasonable" business practice could be said to include: "we could never imagine anyone signing the agreement without having read the contract".
Or rather, we'll advertise one thing and try to catch you out with different terms and conditions in the contract.
In particular I hate the Salt advertising - get internet for xx.xx per month! Then in the fine print "only if you have other subscriptions with us for x y and z". Or of course the infamous UPC cable rental fee.

While it's not difficult to see the disparity in the mobility stuff I still say it's misleading. You don't know what you're signing up for exactly without also explicitly looking at the main subscription. i.e. how much it would cost after the trial, the duration of the contract etc.
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  #47  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:02
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

It can be cancelled... Just be nice

My daughter had the same situatrion - no notification

On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 at 14:59 <office@mobility.ch> wrote:
Dear Mobility customer

Sure it has escaped your attention, to pay the amount due – please find
attached the details. We look forward to a fast payment of the open
invoice(s). We inform you, that you can also settle the amount easily
with your credit card on our customer portal* under the register
“account”.

Yours sincerely

Mobility Cooperative


------------------------------------------------


Thank you for driving with Mobility – it is a pity our ways part!

Your cancellation will take effect on 13 December 2017 – any Policy Deductible 300 will lapse at the same time. If you have received an invoice for your subscription, please ignore it.

Are you a Mobility cooperative main or co-member? If yes, we kindly ask you to send us your bank or post details to office@mobility.ch. Your share certificate will be reimbursed 14 days after the expiration of your membership. Thank you if you have already informed us about your bank details.

We wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

Yours sincerely

Mobility Cooperative
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  #48  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:27
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Of course, one dedicates more attention to an apartment rental contract, a mortgage, job contract or an EXIT contract. Smaller things are treated like smaller things otherwise one goes crazy.
Exactly.

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So, not only did you sign on for a yearly subscription, you also signed on for the optional insurance!
That is because the trial subscription had the insurance as well.

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Put yourself in the other position, all subscriptions auto-cancel unless you do something to renew them. You get on a train with an invalid ticket because you failed to renew your 1/2 price abo and then blame the inspector because you failed to renew your abo. As one of the other posters said, you need to take responsibility for your actions (or inactions in this case). You can't have it both ways.
In this case, you cannot rent a vehicle on the app unless you have a subscription. So, it should be completely fine when the subscription auto-cancels at the end of the term. When the customer wants to book the vehicle, they can do an opt-in.
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  #49  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:28
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Usually, I am not very lenient if one does not read the terms of the contract one enters into. However, if one reads the advertising on the Mobility page:
https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...l-subscription which states "Hop in with our trial subscription: you can try Mobility for four months without any obligation for a subscription fee of CHF 43 – complete flexibility at an affordable drive rate."

The phrase "without any obligation" could give the impression that there is no automatic renewal...
Let's say you subscribe for a digital newspaper trial. Cost for one month is $0, to sign up you have to provide your credit card data.

Hence there's zero cost for the trial subscription. Is it Ok to adertise it as free? And with no obligation to extend?

What would you expect in terms of automatic extension?
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  #50  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:32
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Several years ago they apparently had a policy that they would let you retroactively cancel if you had not used the new subscription (but this policy might have changed):
https://www.reklamation.ch/complaint.php?id=439
Thanks for the link; this is useful and a probable solution - what I was looking for when I posted initially.

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It can be cancelled... Just be nice

My daughter had the same situatrion - no notification
This was in 2017. Not sure if they still do the same. I can try again.
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  #51  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:43
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Let's say you subscribe for a digital newspaper trial. Cost for one month is $0, to sign up you have to provide your credit card data.

Hence there's zero cost for the trial subscription. Is it Ok to adertise it as free? And with no obligation to extend?

What would you expect in terms of automatic extension?
What a good reasonable business practice would look like -

Digital Newspaper - FREE for 1 month with automatic monthly extension of $xx/month 2nd month onwards. Cancel 1 week in advance if you do not wish to continue.

Mobility -
Hop in with our trial subscription: you can try Mobility for four months without any obligation for a subscription fee of CHF 43 – complete flexibility at an affordable drive rate.

For your convenience, we will extend automatically for 1 year 4 weeks before the trial period ends. If you do not wish to continue, feel free to notify us anytime 4 weeks before the end of the trial.

I remember something similar very clearly laid out when I took the Linkedin Premium subscription.
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  #52  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:47
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Thanks for the link; this is useful and a probable solution - what I was looking for when I posted initially.
Will just require you ask them nicely. But feel free to go in guns blazing and see where that takes you!
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  #53  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:54
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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I remember something similar very clearly laid out when I took the Linkedin Premium subscription.
I just tried upgrading Linkedin to check.

Review your order
- Your new subscription will cost CHF xx (plus tax) per month.
- Since you already paid for your current subscription, a prorated credit of CHF xx (plus tax refund) will be applied towards your new subscription. As a result, your payment method will be charged only CHF xx this month.
- Starting May 8, 2021, you will be charged CHF xx (plus tax) per month.

This is what comes up - most important payment info. What I would say is an excellent business practice. Not hidden in a link to a contract for which you tick a box. Being customer-friendly, upfront and transparent.
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  #54  
Old 08.04.2021, 15:59
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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If that is the process then the contract sent after you sign up would not be legally binding, only the information provided before signing.

But actually their signup process says the following on a check-box that you have to tick with links to the contracts:

I accept the general terms and conditions and the privacy policy (read as PDF) as well as the Mobility contract (read as PDF)

Which seems completely standard to me, maybe you should have noticed / mentioned this instead of implying you didn't get given the contract?
Why not put another check-box saying that you agree to an auto renewal at the end of the trial?

Or at least, make it clear like Linkedin that your next charge will be xx on dd-mm-yy.
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  #55  
Old 08.04.2021, 16:02
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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I am surprised you expect every consumer to read contracts like a lawyer while not expecting Mobility to take any responsibility whatsoever on the the misleading business practice.
I don't - the contract is one page of plain English.

It isn't even in German, French or Italian which would be normal in Switzerland.

IMO you messed up and are now too embarrassed to accept your own mistake, so you blame everyone else. This may help your feeling of self-righteousness, but won't solve the problem or help you learn from your mistake.
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Old 08.04.2021, 16:10
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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what my version of a good reasonable business practice would look like -
FTFY
"reasonable" and "common sense" are very subjective. At least nowadays.
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  #57  
Old 08.04.2021, 16:25
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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IMO you messed up and are now too embarrassed to accept your own mistake, so you blame everyone else. This may help your feeling of self-righteousness, but won't solve the problem or help you learn from your mistake.
On the contrary, I have accepted that I missed that point due to which we are discussing this whole thing in the first place.

The advise - "this is standard in Switzerland, you messed up, just pay up" does not solve the problem either. It just tells the business to continue with their misleading tactics without bothering to make the process better, transparent and upfront for customers.
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  #58  
Old 08.04.2021, 16:27
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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FTFY
"reasonable" and "common sense" are very subjective. At least nowadays.
I'd say they always have been, but overly divergent or maladaptive interpretations had very different outcomes in past centuries.
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  #59  
Old 08.04.2021, 17:49
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Usually, I am not very lenient if one does not read the terms of the contract one enters into. However, if one reads the advertising on the Mobility page:
https://www.mobility.ch/en/private-c...l-subscription which states "Hop in with our trial subscription: you can try Mobility for four months without any obligation for a subscription fee of CHF 43 – complete flexibility at an affordable drive rate."

The phrase "without any obligation" could give the impression that there is no automatic renewal...
But it's SUBSCRIPTION by definition.

Why anyone would assume that something called subscription will just stop out of the blue, that's the part that baffles me here in this discussions.
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Old 08.04.2021, 18:28
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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But it's SUBSCRIPTION by definition.

Why anyone would assume that something called subscription will just stop out of the blue, that's the part that baffles me here in this discussions.
I have covered most points which I believe are reasonable good business practices to extend/renew subscriptions in my posts. See Linkedin one for example. Your mileage may vary.
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