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  #61  
Old 08.04.2021, 18:32
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

On another related note, for all the folks who read and understand contracts carefully - Can someone point where they have mentioned in the contract or T&C's that the 4-month trial subscription will be converted into an annual subscription?

It was a 4-month trial subscription. On what basis was it extended for 12 months? Why not 4 months again or 1 month?
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  #62  
Old 08.04.2021, 18:53
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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On another related note, for all the folks who read and understand contracts carefully - Can someone point where they have mentioned in the contract or T&C's that the 4-month trial subscription will be converted into an annual subscription?

It was a 4-month trial subscription. On what basis was it extended for 12 months? Why not 4 months again or 1 month?
Because the standard subscription is annual, notwithstanding the four month free trial. Their logic would be that this is all they offer, so the contract clause about automatic 'indefinite' renewal must refer to that.

The more I read it the more I think that a decent lawyer could drive a coach and horses through that contract, though...
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  #63  
Old 08.04.2021, 19:44
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Because the standard subscription is annual, notwithstanding the four month free trial. Their logic would be that this is all they offer, so the contract clause about automatic 'indefinite' renewal must refer to that.

The more I read it the more I think that a decent lawyer could drive a coach and horses through that contract, though...
Agreed. And let's not start on the clumsy translations and turns of phrase in the contract as well as the website. There are even blatant typos.
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  #64  
Old 08.04.2021, 21:24
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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The more I read it the more I think that a decent lawyer could drive a coach and horses through that contract, though...
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Agreed. And let's not start on the clumsy translations and turns of phrase in the contract as well as the website. There are even blatant typos.
Why exactly do you think a lawyer could do that?

The termination clauses are:

"The Mobility agreement for private customers remains valid for an indefinite period, provided that neither of the contracting parties provides notice of termination."

"Both contracting parties may terminate the Mobility agreement for private customers at any time at the end of the term of the offer in question, with a period of notice of four weeks."

So the repeating nature of the agreement is clear, and the notice period at the end of the offer is clear.

Some of the other parts are a bit dubious, like the unilateral right to amend the contract without the corresponding right of the customer to cancel if they don't like them, but that doesn't invalidate the termination parts.

Typos etc are irrelevant unless they make the meaning unclear.
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  #65  
Old 08.04.2021, 21:41
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Why exactly do you think a lawyer could do that?

The termination clauses are:

"The Mobility agreement for private customers remains valid for an indefinite period, provided that neither of the contracting parties provides notice of termination."

"Both contracting parties may terminate the Mobility agreement for private customers at any time at the end of the term of the offer in question, with a period of notice of four weeks."

So the repeating nature of the agreement is clear, and the notice period at the end of the offer is clear.
Is there a repeating nature in fact? The point being made is what "offer" applies after the four-month trial offer?
In fact it could be argued the trial period has not ended as it states it's indefinite until terminated, which hasn't happened. It's all very poorly done, which is not unusual.

If it were me I'd be writing to say I wouldn't be paying or perhaps making an offer for the four week's notice.
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Old 08.04.2021, 22:02
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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It was a 4-month trial subscription. On what basis was it extended for 12 months? Why not 4 months again or 1 month?
I pointed it to you already in first replies in this thread https://www.englishforum.ch/3293684-post5.html


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The advise - "this is standard in Switzerland, you messed up, just pay up" does not solve the problem either. It just tells the business to continue with their misleading tactics without bothering to make the process better, transparent and upfront for customers.
Sue them. If you say signup screen did say something like "four months without any obligation", you *might* just a have leg to stand on here thanks to Art 8 UWG, even despite your apparent lack of english skills not allowing you to comprehend a simple one pager. If judge agrees with you that what they're doing here is bullshit, they'll be punished, you'll get your money and lawyers costs back. If not, likewise, you will owe them the subscription fee AND lawyers money. If you're chicken, just shut up and pay.
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  #67  
Old 08.04.2021, 22:39
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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I pointed it to you already in first replies in this thread https://www.englishforum.ch/3293684-post5.html
Clause 9 in the contract just mentions contract is valid for an indefinite period unless terminated. It can be interpreted to be renewed as a monthly subscription, a quarterly or an annual one. Where does the contract specify that it will be an annual one going forward?

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even despite your apparent lack of english skills not allowing you to comprehend a simple one pager.
In my initial post, I have mentioned the issue and pointed out the relevant clause in the contract which is possibly why it is immediately clear to a lot of folks that is where the screw up happened. In real life, while signing up, there are details one is reading on the website, a 10-pager T&C, the contract, fair play rules that they have referenced in the contract and other personal/work stuff to attend to.

Amongst all this, every one on the 'read the contract carefully' side here seems to think they would have absolutely nailed that very point on the termination and taken care to unsubscribe couple of months down the line.
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  #68  
Old 08.04.2021, 22:48
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

This condition seems to give them carte blanche to do whatever they like. *which is of course total BS)

Mobility is entitled, unilaterally and at any time, to amend this agreement with all its component parts, in particular the “GTC and Privacy Policy”, “Fair Play and Fees”, “This is how Mobility works” and the rates. The customer will be notified of any amendments in an appropriate form and they shall be regarded as approved by the customer from this date onwards.
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  #69  
Old 08.04.2021, 22:56
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Clause 9 in the contract just mentions contract is valid for an indefinite period unless terminated. It can be interpreted to be renewed as a monthly subscription, a quarterly or an annual one. Where does the contract specify that it will be an annual one going forward?
Probably in one of: “GTC and Privacy Policy”, the “This is how Mobility works” and “Fair Play and Fees” [that] form integral parts of [your] agreement, and provide the necessary clarifications to the plain english one-pager you didn't bother to read.

It's not really that important. You're fully on the hook here under contract law
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  #70  
Old 08.04.2021, 23:00
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Amongst all this, every one on the 'read the contract carefully' side here seems to think they would have absolutely nailed that very point on the termination and taken care to unsubscribe couple of months down the line.
I think you're assuming one thing potentially wrong - if I like the service I've signed up for, I leave it be and continue paying.
If I don't like - I terminate immediately.

I don't NEED 4 months / waiting until the last second usually, and IF I do, then I have an alarm/reminder to make it on time.

For many things you just know in a few minutes / days / uses if the service is something you want or not. If I don't want it, I go and check termination details. I can't remember if I ever saw 'you have to cancel exactly on this date', it's usually 'by this date'.

Hell, on google play if I want to use something for a month, I subscribe and unsubscribe immediately. I'm to lazy to put reminders for 30 days from now if I can avoid it.
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  #71  
Old 08.04.2021, 23:03
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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I think you're assuming one thing potentially wrong - if I like the service I've signed up for, I leave it be and continue paying.
Continue paying what? i.e how much? How long for? It's easy when that's written down, less so when it isn't.
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Old 08.04.2021, 23:06
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Continue paying what? i.e how much? How long for? It's easy when that's written down, less so when it isn't.
If you don't know for which service you subscribed to at all, I'm not sure that anyone can help you decipher that....
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  #73  
Old 08.04.2021, 23:12
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Why exactly do you think a lawyer could do that?

.
Dispute the automatic renewal for a year, given that the initial contract was for four months, for a start.
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  #74  
Old 08.04.2021, 23:22
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Probably in one of: “GTC and Privacy Policy”, the “This is how Mobility works” and “Fair Play and Fees” [that] form integral parts of [your] agreement, and provide the necessary clarifications to the plain english one-pager you didn't bother to read.
I could not find any mention of the extension duration in any of those documents also.

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I think you're assuming one thing potentially wrong - if I like the service I've signed up for, I leave it be and continue paying.
If I don't like - I terminate immediately.
In my case, like or dislike the service does not matter. I was using the trial subscription for a specific purpose of the driving test for my license for which a 4-month period suffices. As that is done, I do not need the subscription further.

I have also cancelled other subscriptions immediately or at a later date before the renewal. Usually, my experience has been that it has been clearly called out on the website upfront making it easier to make a mental note (see the Linkedin example in post#53).
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  #75  
Old 08.04.2021, 23:25
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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If you don't know for which service you subscribed to at all, I'm not sure that anyone can help you decipher that....
I subscribed to a 4-month trial. It was converted to a 12-month annual subscription without informing me, without it being mentioned in the contract or anywhere else.
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  #76  
Old 10.04.2021, 09:40
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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It was a 4-month trial subscription. On what basis was it extended for 12 months? Why not 4 months again or 1 month?
To all those who are wondering what happened next, I again requested them politely to cancel the subscription. When they again refused, I had to ask this question.

The customer service rep offered to change the subscription to 4 months on the spot (with additional admin fees ) and send me a new invoice. The way they didn't budge earlier and offered to reduce it immediately based on my question suggests this is standard operating procedure.

Not acting in good faith right from the outset
- not mentioning the auto renewal explicitly on the website during the sign-up process
- advertising the trial as 'no obligation', 'not binding' and then adding the termination clause in the contract
- converting a 4-month trial into 12-month annual subscription without information
- outright refusal to do anything until I asked the above

Still want to defend Mobility, eh?

Last edited by hyper; 10.04.2021 at 09:55.
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  #77  
Old 10.04.2021, 11:24
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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What a good reasonable business practice would look like -

Digital Newspaper - FREE for 1 month with automatic monthly extension of $xx/month 2nd month onwards. Cancel 1 week in advance if you do not wish to continue.

Mobility -
Hop in with our trial subscription: you can try Mobility for four months without any obligation for a subscription fee of CHF 43 – complete flexibility at an affordable drive rate.

For your convenience, we will extend automatically for 1 year 4 weeks before the trial period ends. If you do not wish to continue, feel free to notify us anytime 4 weeks before the end of the trial.

I remember something similar very clearly laid out when I took the Linkedin Premium subscription.
Sure, that would be a possibility. It just doesn't mean they have to, or that your rant is justified.
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Old 10.04.2021, 11:32
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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Still want to defend Mobility, eh?
Was anyone trying to defend them? I don't think so.

What I find amusing is that having failed to read the contract in the first place, you then, seemingly, failed to read it properly even after you started this thread, only realising the flaw in their 12-month extension after it was pointed out to you.

Still, you managed to salvage something tangible out of it, and hopefully you won't get caught out like this again.
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  #79  
Old 10.04.2021, 13:06
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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To all those who are wondering what happened next, I again requested them politely to cancel the subscription. When they again refused, I had to ask this question.

The customer service rep offered to change the subscription to 4 months on the spot (with additional admin fees ) and send me a new invoice. The way they didn't budge earlier and offered to reduce it immediately based on my question suggests this is standard operating procedure.

Not acting in good faith right from the outset
- not mentioning the auto renewal explicitly on the website during the sign-up process
- advertising the trial as 'no obligation', 'not binding' and then adding the termination clause in the contract
- converting a 4-month trial into 12-month annual subscription without information
- outright refusal to do anything until I asked the above

Still want to defend Mobility, eh?
Hopefully you'd become part of the crazy ones that read every page of contracts and avoids signing for anything for curiosity
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  #80  
Old 10.04.2021, 17:34
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Re: Automatic extension of trial subscription by Mobility

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To all those who are wondering what happened next, I again requested them politely to cancel the subscription. When they again refused, I had to ask this question.

The customer service rep offered to change the subscription to 4 months on the spot (with additional admin fees ) and send me a new invoice. The way they didn't budge earlier and offered to reduce it immediately based on my question suggests this is standard operating procedure.

Not acting in good faith right from the outset
- not mentioning the auto renewal explicitly on the website during the sign-up process
- advertising the trial as 'no obligation', 'not binding' and then adding the termination clause in the contract
- converting a 4-month trial into 12-month annual subscription without information
- outright refusal to do anything until I asked the above

Still want to defend Mobility, eh?
No one is defending Mobility.

I personally reacted to the entitled tone of your message as if it's the world's fault and you are a poor victim.

Is Mobility's marketing of the offer misleading? Maybe - for sure it's not clear.

Did you make a mistake not reading the T&C's and abiding to them? Yes 100%

Could Mobility have spoon fed you? Yes

Issue here is you made a mistake.

And you came all guns blazing saying Mobility is unethical.

You could have come saying - Mobility's offer is misleading and now I have missed the deadline to cancel, any tips how to get out of this?

You go plenty of tips, all involving a good dose of humility which you rejected.

So suit yourself.

Mobility immediately saying yes to 4 months is not necessarily an admission of guilt. Like all companies they will weight cost and benefit and if making you go away quickly to avoid one of their operator spending a long time on your case for a yearly fee of a couple of hundred francs, well they will do so. Not because they are guilty but because it plays in their favour to do so, it's a business decisions.

So continue and you may get more - wheel that creaks get oil and all. I have fought my own share of Battles, especially when I was younger and "principles" and making "bad companies pay" was more important than my time and rest. Now I step back more and use the 5 second, 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 months and 5 years rule. If something will not matter in 5 years it's definitely not worth fighting for.

Good luck.
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