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  #41  
Old 09.04.2021, 11:37
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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You: rant about the outdated Swiss banking system
Others: point out your rant is not fully justified
You: rant about how not everybody agrees with you
I: applaud your standing up for your own not fully justified ranting and hope you’re happy now
Not justified? I can actually google outdated swiss banking system and come up with statistics.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/snb-sur...ptake/45188310

And yes, its not the banking system that is outdated, its the population. So basically everyone is arguing that its not justified is arguing that people like it here. What if for a second that what people like here is not modernized compared the the rest of the developed economies?
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  #42  
Old 09.04.2021, 11:40
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I still very much miss the UK/US online banking systems because they're made for "everyone"
I remember in the 90s using scratchlists to ensure there was no simple username/password login for my ebanking but rather multi-factor authentication. That certainly was not the case in the US and UK and I think it's only because of EU-wide banking regulations and initiatives like PSD2 that MFA has become the norm (in Europe at least).

Maybe you want a banking service where you can post your login details to bugmenot?
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  #43  
Old 09.04.2021, 11:42
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I would almost ask when was the last time you lived outside of Europe, because if you haven't done that in the last decade I would really like to what perspective are you offering.
I have. What difference does that make?

And through my job I work with a multitude of online banking systems and banking structures.
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  #44  
Old 09.04.2021, 11:52
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I mean sure, if that's what you want to think. Everyone who has a negative experience is badly informed! I mean this forum is incredibly helpful with information, but when it comes to "Switzerland Bad" it is quite amusing how everyone gets so defensive. I would almost ask when was the last time you lived outside of Europe, because if you haven't done that in the last decade I would really like to know what perspective you are offering.
Rather ironic... in your case you seem to just complain about anything that's different without looking in any real depth.

So actually pretty much everything is available in Switzerland banking, but maybe not so obvious because many Swiss don't use it.

Similarly on your complaints about the food - it's different, but that doesn't make it bad.

And the complaint about the "random" charge because you ignored perfectly normal reminder letters? Which were in German, wow that's odd in Switzerland.
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  #45  
Old 09.04.2021, 11:57
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Not justified? I can actually google outdated swiss banking system and come up with statistics.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/snb-sur...ptake/45188310

And yes, its not the banking system that is outdated, its the population. So basically everyone is arguing that its not justified is arguing that people like it here. What if for a second that what people like here is not modernized compared the the rest of the developed economies?
Honest question, what's the measuring rule for modernity? Which are the criteria being evaluated? What are we missing? Shinny metal cards?

Fintech may have helped the poor and the people that cannot even read a 1 page contract, but that is not a problem in first place.
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  #46  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:07
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I have no problem with them adding new features; what I object to is them removing the other options so you can only use them via a mobile phone.

I used to set up my post hold on PostFinance online, but now can't do it because it requires a phone; e-mail isn't good enough any more. If I did it early enough it was free. Now I have to go into the post office in person and pay CHF22 because I don't have/want a mobile phone.

Can't make some payments via credit card now because you must have a phone so I'm locked out of shopping that way or have to use PayPal which I'm not that keen on.

I get that they say it's extra security, though I've yet to be convinced of that since every time I query why they can't keep the old options the answer is "it's on a separate device so it's more secure". Well hello Authy desktop which happily sits on my PC and gets round that problem a lot of the time.

Don't remove the other options for people who don't want to have to get a phone just to continue to do their day to day stuff as they did before. Keep all the options and simply make it part of the T&C that if you don't go for 2FA then if you lose money/goods you can't get a refund. Us boomers will die off eventually, but please let us continue to have access to other ways to do stuff in our daily lives than restrict everything to mobile phone use.
I agree with you (yet I do have a smart phone). They keep ranting about how much safer things are - in between the news of great data leaks.
The last Kassensturz reportet about Travel-Cash card by Swiss Bankers. Never heard of it before but it can be used even if you lock it into a bank-safe. And that's all on you, Swiss Bankers says you have to check your balance regularly (they don't send you one though) even if you don't use it.
Great fun - if you don't have one and you love sarcasm.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of like hackers, we wouldn't have most the stuff we have today without them. But I admit I prefer them to try their skills on other people's back.

As to the credit-card I was the same as you and started using paypal. Had no problems with it but I only use it to pay, not to receive.
Last week I gave in though. With mastercard you don't need to use their app, the codes come via standard sms (and bloody fast too). They already used the phone-no. to send me an sms I didn't need. I simply deleted it. I'll see how it goes.

edit: Just saw Chuff's post: Do you not have a smart phone or no mobile phone at all?
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  #47  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:07
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Now I have to go into the post office in person and pay CHF22 because I don't have/want a mobile phone.
You choosing to not have a mobile phone, a device that has been around for literally decades and that for whatever inexplicable reasons that you have convinced yourself are valid for not having one, is 100% your problem and not the banks.

Even suggesting that banks should weaken their own security as part of their T&C, to accommodate people like yourself who are in fact the most vulnerable but don't even realise it, is evidence of why they need to continue to enforce banking security.

Either move with the times or continue to suffer the penalty of paying a ridiculous 22chf every time you do your banking... it's your money to throw away.

Last edited by Chuff; 10.04.2021 at 06:21.
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  #48  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:09
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Honest question, what's the measuring rule for modernity? Which are the criteria being evaluated? What are we missing? Shinny metal cards?

Fintech may have helped the poor and the people that cannot even read a 1 page contract, but that is not a problem in first place.
The contactless payment chip in our fingertip, of course.
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  #49  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:11
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Not justified? I can actually google outdated swiss banking system and come up with statistics.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/snb-sur...ptake/45188310

And yes, its not the banking system that is outdated, its the population. So basically everyone is arguing that its not justified is arguing that people like it here. What if for a second that what people like here is not modernized compared the the rest of the developed economies?
I wrote “not fully justified” twice. As to your “statistics”, all I glean from the quoted article is that newish digital banks have not made much inroads here as yet. I personally would certainly hesitate to commit to an entity which specifically does away with previously physical (barred) doors. Does make it a tad difficult for the enraged mob to gather outside and rant during a bank run.
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  #50  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:12
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Rather ironic... in your case you seem to just complain about anything that's different without looking in any real depth.

So actually pretty much everything is available in Switzerland banking, but maybe not so obvious because many Swiss don't use it.

Similarly on your complaints about the food - it's different, but that doesn't make it bad.

And the complaint about the "random" charge because you ignored perfectly normal reminder letters? Which were in German, wow that's odd in Switzerland.
LOL, you did a background check on OP?
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  #51  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:14
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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You choosing to not have a mobile phone, a device that has been around for literally decades and that for whatever inexplicable reasons that you have convinced yourself are valid, is 100% your problem and not the banks.

Even suggesting that banks should weaken their own security as part of their T&C, to accommodate people like yourself who are in fact the most vulnerable but don't even realise it, is evidence of why they need to continue to enforce banking security.

Either move with the times or continue to suffer the penalty of paying a ridiculous 22chf every time you do your banking. I guess it's your money to throw away.
Oh c'mon, it's a negligeable sum payed for the privilege of not owning a mobile phone...

It's funny, but to each their own.
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  #52  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:22
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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The contactless payment chip in our fingertip, of course.
Maybe marketing causes some confusion too. RFID cards were working for years around here, one day I crossed the Atlantic and Apple pay was the next big thing. The same communication protocol than VISA/MC cards, but since it was Apple it was cooler.
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  #53  
Old 09.04.2021, 12:36
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I wrote “not fully justified” twice. As to your “statistics”, all I glean from the quoted article is that newish digital banks have not made much inroads here as yet. I personally would certainly hesitate to commit to an entity which specifically does away with previously physical (barred) doors. Does make it a tad difficult for the enraged mob to gather outside and rant during a bank run.
Also you have to define "here" - most of the older Swiss folks are perfectly happy with their banking but this is no different to the UK where people also still go into branches to pay their bills.

Whereas if you look at younger people there's a lot with Revolut and Transferwise and "new" banks with online online presence.

A lot of this is also historically driven - countries with high uptake of new technology often have little old infrastructure; young people do stuff online, older people just use cash, there never were many bank branches anyway.
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  #54  
Old 09.04.2021, 13:06
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I agree with you (yet I do have a smart phone). They keep ranting about how much safer things are - in between the news of great data leaks.
The last Kassensturz reportet about Travel-Cash card by Swiss Bankers. Never heard of it before but it can be used even if you lock it into a bank-safe. And that's all on you, Swiss Bankers says you have to check your balance regularly (they don't send you one though) even if you don't use it.
Great fun - if you don't have one and you love sarcasm.

Don't get me wrong, I kind of like hackers, we wouldn't have most the stuff we have today without them. But I admit I prefer them to try their skills on other people's back.

As to the credit-card I was the same as you and started using paypal. Had no problems with it but I only use it to pay, not to receive.
Last week I gave in though. With mastercard you don't need to use their app, the codes come via standard sms (and bloody fast too). They already used the phone-no. to send me an sms I didn't need. I simply deleted it. I'll see how it goes.

edit: Just saw Chuff's post: Do you not have a smart phone or no mobile phone at all?
No, I don't. Husband has one which we use if we must for 2FA stuff, but part of our problem is we - for unknown reasons - have very bad phone reception where we are and it's often very difficult to receive something like an SMS message. Also not all 2FA authenicators work properly. Last year I needed to use it for Discord and it took us several attempts over 3 days to finally manage it since Google's thing just didn't want to know so we used Authy instead.

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You choosing to not have a mobile phone, a device that has been around for literally decades and that for whatever inexplicable reasons that you have convinced yourself are valid, is 100% your problem and not the banks.

Even suggesting that banks should weaken their own security as part of their T&C, to accommodate people like yourself who are in fact the most vulnerable but don't even realise it, is evidence of why they need to continue to enforce banking security.

Either move with the times or continue to suffer the penalty of paying a ridiculous 22chf every time you do your banking... it's your money to throw away.
I remember when mobile first started being used chum. Another point is why should I be expected to purchase a mobile phone when I have absolutely no need for one? I rarely make any calls so a landline is fine for me. Why should I be expected to fork out around CHF30 a month for something I'll rarely, if ever, use when the old options work perfectly well and it's just this thing called "progress" that makes everyone want to change to that and nothing else?

As said I'm fine with introducing new features, but don't restrict them to mobile phone access only. Let people have a choice.
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Old 09.04.2021, 13:19
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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No, I don't. Husband has one which we use if we must for 2FA stuff, but part of our problem is we - for unknown reasons - have very bad phone reception where we are and it's often very difficult to receive something like an SMS message. Also not all 2FA authenicators work properly. Last year I needed to use it for Discord and it took us several attempts over 3 days to finally manage it since Google's thing just didn't want to know so we used Authy instead.



I remember when mobile first started being used chum. Another point is why should I be expected to purchase a mobile phone when I have absolutely no need for one? I rarely make any calls so a landline is fine for me. Why should I be expected to fork out around CHF30 a month for something I'll rarely, if ever, use when the old options work perfectly well and it's just this thing called "progress" that makes everyone want to change to that and nothing else?

As said I'm fine with introducing new features, but don't restrict them to mobile phone access only. Let people have a choice.
When I still had a landline, my phone was able to take and send sms from the landline number.
Did you ever check on that possibility? Your land-line provider can tell you whether they support sms on landline but I guess these days they all do.

I still got two Gigaset phones including manuals in German, French and Italian (gosh I have to stop hoarding things ) I would happily donate to you.

Last edited by curley; 09.04.2021 at 13:30.
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Old 09.04.2021, 13:24
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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I remember when mobile first started being used chum. Another point is why should I be expected to purchase a mobile phone when I have absolutely no need for one? I rarely make any calls so a landline is fine for me. Why should I be expected to fork out around CHF30 a month for something I'll rarely, if ever, use when the old options work perfectly well and it's just this thing called "progress" that makes everyone want to change to that and nothing else?
You aren‘t expected to fork out anything for a subscription. You can get a pay as you go SIM for free from plenty of the operators. I haven‘t heard of incoming SMS being charged for outside of the US decades ago and all phones connect to Wifi, so you don‘t need a data connection.
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Old 09.04.2021, 13:40
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Re: Swiss payment systems

Totally agree.As an Australian living in Schweiz for 3 months l am quite shocked with banking system here.Not only with payment methods but also their cards,fees,twint vs...

Opened a csx digital banking account recently and to active it jump into a laptop scan securesign code register your device bla bla.l know it might be piece of cake for who already here for long but my Australian card would perform better than Swiss bank cards and it is FREE.That wasnt what l expected from a country called banking paradise.Well it is what it is.
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Old 09.04.2021, 13:51
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Re: Swiss payment systems

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Hello,

Just ranting here but I am seriously tired of the Swiss banking system and how outdated they are for a "Banking" country. Like seriously...Orange slips and wire transfers for most payments? Were living in 2021, and all the mobile payments and so called online banking is just an extension of these strangely outdated methods.

The reality is that Switzerland is only known for its private banking, not its actual banking service. Please modernize it! And I already know people are going to come in say this is how its done in Switzerland bla bla bla. All I see is an out dated system.

All in all, my hypothesis is that Switzerland adopts change very slowly (for the better and for the worse). It involves its strong national identity, and interpreting change as attacks towards its sovereignty.
Many years ago, before moving here I was driving trough Switzerland for the first time in my life. I was stopped at Basel to buy vignette. I asked for a 1 day or 1 week vignette. She said, we only have for 1 year, 38 francs please. I said, that is crazy, I'm in Switzerland for 3-4 hours. She said, if you don't like it - go back.

I'm happy with the banking here.
I'm happy with the on time payment by my clients.
I'm happy with Twint.
I'm happy when a client asks specifically for orange payment slip.
It is their way of life and I respect that. I need to change - not them.
I'm happy because Swiss support small business and I have good life.
If I need to choose between super functional banking system and culture with a lot of late payments, folded companies etc, I will choose Swiss system every day.
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Old 09.04.2021, 13:55
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Re: Swiss payment systems

Silly old-fashioned Swiss banking - I still have the name and direct phone number on every bank statement, which I download as needed from the ZKB.

Ever tried phone a UK bank? Been with Lloyds for 50 years and am now routed via India and told I cannot speak with my branch any longer.

When I first came here in 1980s, the Autobahn services at Glanerland only took credit cards in one direction, the other side took only cash for petrol. I could never remember which was which...
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Old 09.04.2021, 14:01
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Many years ago, before moving here I was driving trough Switzerland for the first time in my life. I was stopped at Basel to buy vignette. I asked for a 1 day or 1 week vignette. She said, we only have for 1 year, 38 francs please. I said, that is crazy, I'm in Switzerland for 3-4 hours. She said, if you don't like it - go back.
I've spent that much in as many hours of driving toll roads in Italy.

Tom
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