Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.04.2021, 16:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 506
Groaned at 41 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 610 Times in 187 Posts
makeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputation
Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Hello everyone,

There seems to be the perfect ripoff business model commonly accepted and getting worse, particularly in Switzerland (and probably most of Europe).

It's where a company sells you a product which has problems, doesn't work as advertised or won't deliver what you needed from the purchase but the nature of the challenge requires you to call customer service at a charge to find this out.

They charge you .08 or .15 or .30 rappen per minute, don't incur the cost of hiring enough agents so you are kept on hold forever (all of which you must pay for per minute) and then when you finally get an agent, you find out that they can not deliver what was promised, the product can't do what you want or need or it doesn't currently work (so they incur less costs actually providing the service) and the agent says they don't have any way of refunding you the cost of the call required to find this out.

It is absolutely brilliant: Charge people for not delivering anything of value.

Create a crappy product and charge them for all the time it takes to get it working.
Amp up the call charges by making them wait a long time to tell them they won't get what they need.
Save costs by not having to deal with the costs of actually providing the value that was advertised.
Be vague and don't spell out the gotcha's in the advertising so people have to pay money to call, find out the details and sort out problems.
Outsource the call center to some cheap remote location.

While charging per minute for customer service is used around the world, I have never seen it used to such an extent as CH.

How is this legal? If they state a product does X, how can they charge you to tell you that they can't deliver what they stated?

I don't want to dive into all the specifics but I have had many situations with lots of different companies in CH where I had to pay per minute for the privilege of waiting a long time and receiving the information that they have messed up or I will not get some aspect of the service purchased.

Even more generally, I am amazed at how often I have to pay for a call where the answer is lame or does not provide any value.

Curious if anyone has any thoughts, knowledge of tricks or the legalities around this.

MakeABigSmile
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.04.2021, 16:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 6,563
Groaned at 390 Times in 286 Posts
Thanked 9,159 Times in 4,281 Posts
bowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond reputebowlie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Go on their facebook page and tell everyone about their crap products and crap customer service. But be aware you may be liable for such comments. Tell the truth, don’t exaggerate.

But post that in the local language.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 22.04.2021, 16:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 8,714
Groaned at 317 Times in 244 Posts
Thanked 20,043 Times in 6,989 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

What kind of product is it?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,612
Groaned at 103 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 13,362 Times in 5,430 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

  1. Don't call helplines, in general.
  2. Especially avoid helplines with a charge because, yes, they are a source of business revenue for the company.
  3. If at all possible, make your enquiries by mail. That way, you have a trail of the responses, of the solutions they suggested, of your reply to them once you had tried out the steps, etc.
  4. If there is no advertised mail address, google one.
  5. If you can't find one googling, just try out all the usuals: "info@", "service@", "customer@", etc.
  6. If you cannot find any way to mail to make your enquiry, write a letter in an envelope.

In any case, if you get to a point beyond making enquiries and go on to make a formal complaint, do this in a letter in an envelope, which you register at the post office.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 8,612
Groaned at 103 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 13,362 Times in 5,430 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
Be vague and don't spell out the gotcha's in the advertising so people have to pay money to call, find out the details and sort out problems.
This part adds a point Pre-1., to my list above:
Don't buy any product about which you haven't been able to first find out the details - unless you're willing to take the risk and just experiment.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:11
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,907
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Twitter often works well too, as a communication channel to the company. Often staffed by call centre workers eager to please you to get a high feedback score. That or I use skype to call if it's cheaper.


If it say it does X and doesn't, then you can return it. I guess you want to get confirmation from them that it doesn't do X.

If you think it should do X but was never actually stated then it's a different story.

But yes exorbitant call charges don't seem fair when there is a genuine problem with an item.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:12
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,255
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,937 Times in 2,796 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
What kind of product is it?
This is a good question. doesn't work as advertised implies a machine or furniture. What else? If that's the case, why not by from local reputable sellers?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:18
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 13,131
Groaned at 218 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 15,264 Times in 7,847 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

I rarely have problems with products I ordered. When I do I never call suppliers on the phone.
<<They charge you .08 or .15 or .30 rappen per minute>> never saw such low fees. Shouldn't it be something like 2 franks/minute?

I understand the rage of the moment but <<getting worse, particularly in Switzerland (and probably most of Europe).>> ? If it happens to you all the time, what/where do you shop?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 22.04.2021, 17:25
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,255
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,937 Times in 2,796 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

As millenial, what's this calling customer service thing? What is the business model?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 22.04.2021, 18:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 506
Groaned at 41 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 610 Times in 187 Posts
makeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputationmakeabigwish has an excellent reputation
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

No matter how long I live here, I continue to be amazed at what people tolerate in prices, charges, fees, fines, poor customer service, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22.04.2021, 18:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
No matter how long I live here, I continue to be amazed at what people tolerate in prices, charges, fees, fines, poor customer service, etc.
No matter how long I post here, I continue to be amazed at how little people are prepared to go into detail about whatever is irking them...

Without details, your complaint makes it sound like it's something you're ashamed to admit, just like the petrol muppet who wanted his thread deleted 'cos he only got sarcastic replies (he didn't).

If not, then why not share it?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 22.04.2021, 18:51
hoover1
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
No matter how long I post here, I continue to be amazed at how little people are prepared to go into detail about whatever is irking them...

Without details, your complaint makes it sound like it's something you're ashamed to admit, just like the petrol muppet who wanted his thread deleted 'cos he only got sarcastic replies (he didn't).

If not, then why not share it?
When you are fascinated by the ad and get a product with money back guarantee and you realise it doesn't do what it promised - you learn quickly what the ads are for ... and most likely by the age of 6 you know what to trust and what not when there wasn't money back either .

"Internet never lies and is always right" - so google company details you buy from prior ordering , check whenever its just "internet company"or real one and make your mind in case you want to complain - that for the second one you can just show up at the desk of the owner and have a conversation there and then .

Yes - you need to pay a bit more in that case - however consider it as "risk mitigation fee" or "regular phone call fee".
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22.04.2021, 19:09
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: CH
Posts: 172
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 137 Times in 68 Posts
besmegenis has made some interesting contributions
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

maybe that product is some sex toy and OP is a bit shy to explain in more detail Or, maybe it is one of those things you stick on your belly and train muscles while watching TV on the sofa? Both things might be embarrassing

Quote:
No matter how long I post here, I continue to be amazed at how little people are prepared to go into detail about whatever is irking them...

Without details, your complaint makes it sound like it's something you're ashamed to admit, just like the petrol muppet who wanted his thread deleted 'cos he only got sarcastic replies (he didn't).

If not, then why not share it?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank besmegenis for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 22.04.2021, 20:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,907
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
No matter how long I post here, I continue to be amazed at how little people are prepared to go into detail about whatever is irking them...

Without details, your complaint makes it sound like it's something you're ashamed to admit, just like the petrol muppet who wanted his thread deleted 'cos he only got sarcastic replies (he didn't).

If not, then why not share it?
My my experience, the forum tends to ignore or simply misunderstand OP questions and instead focus on judging them, belittling their issue and often accusing them of making the whole thing up. You don't need to know what the OP bought or didn't and he already stated that he didn't want to go into it.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 22.04.2021, 20:36
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,034
Groaned at 308 Times in 263 Posts
Thanked 23,191 Times in 9,417 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
...and he already stated that he didn't want to go into it.
Oh. Is that like that episode of "Not going out" where he inadvertantly picked up a lonely neighbours mail order product? Flashlights (or whatever they're called) are a bit embarrasing.

To be serious though. If the OP is reluctant to share what the product was, that implies it was something embarrassing. And that implies further that he bought it from less than reputable dealers. I think galaxus sell fleshlights, but he could have pretended it was a pair of glasses, for example. No need to be coy, unless the coyness is relevant.

Anyway for balance. I bought a dishwasher last year. After 12 hours, it would have water in it. We went through the customer service channels (no premium), and eventually they decided it wasn't worth looking at, and so refunded all the money.

A plumber friend came round and fitted a 20fr filter into the drain pipe and it works fine.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 22.04.2021, 20:37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 343
Groaned at 21 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 404 Times in 187 Posts
Sinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of manySinking has earned the respect of many
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Most stores now have several channels where you can reach them: email, facebook, twitter, chat box ... Hell, many stores have free customer service number or even snail mail.

Have you tried any of those?

If product was falsely advertised, you should get your money back. Again, more info would be welcome ... type of product? advertisement? expectations?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 22.04.2021, 21:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,907
Groaned at 76 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 2,025 Times in 1,178 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
Oh. Is that like that episode of "Not going out" where he inadvertantly picked up a lonely neighbours mail order product? Flashlights (or whatever they're called) are a bit embarrasing.
Flashlights are things you can use to see in the dark. You're thinking of something of a similar shape but considerably more fleshy.
Quote:
To be serious though. If the OP is reluctant to share what the product was, that implies it was something embarrassing.
It doesn't but that's what you choose to infer. If that is the case then you could understand he doesn't want to mention it. The fact is, it doesn't matter what it was.
Quote:
And that implies further that he bought it from less than reputable dealers.
Again just your inference and depends on how you define "reputable". The OP seems to complain that there are many sellers here who use irreputable (in his eyes) practices so a reasonable assumption by definition.
Quote:
Anyway for balance. I bought a dishwasher last year.

Last edited by Landers; 22.04.2021 at 22:12.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 22.04.2021, 22:53
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 4,255
Groaned at 72 Times in 67 Posts
Thanked 5,937 Times in 2,796 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

Quote:
View Post
No matter how long I live here, I continue to be amazed at what people tolerate in prices, charges, fees, fines, poor customer service, etc.
If I understand well the passive-aggressiveness, we're a band of idiots for not sharing the indignation against high prices, charges, fees, fines and poor customer service. So, it's a general thing, all shops are bad. The world is against OP.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 23.04.2021, 01:50
blacky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: ~ Affoltern a.A, ZH
Posts: 222
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 280 Times in 125 Posts
blacky has a reputation beyond reputeblacky has a reputation beyond reputeblacky has a reputation beyond reputeblacky has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

I'm inclined to go with the folks who say 'nope, not everyone in the road drives in the wrong direction, you're the one in the wrong lane'.

Let me explain - in my close to 20 years of experience of shopping online I've never had to CALL someone, in so far two countries in Europe.
Be it weird ebay sellers, ok ebay sellers, various amazon sellers.... but granted, in my country of origin I never bought from a shop I wasn't familiar with, form those online I'd read a bunch of those reviews and then either went away or decided I'll risk and see what happens.
When I came in Germany, I was very happy to find out about trustedshop service which I happily paid and made my investigation easier - if shop has that seal, it's legit shop.

So, I guess by that strategy I mitigated a bunch of opportunities where I'd even need to escalate thing above e-mail.

Also, I sent inquiry to wingo.ch about something I couldn't find in the FAQ and they called me. So yeah, I was talking, but for free And they called me on my german number and I'm in germany, so it wasn't free for them either.

I really can't remember if I ever saw a site that sells a real product (which might be faulty) that isn't a bank or internet provider that has paid customer support line (and not for all things). And you know, reading three times before ordering from those is generally advised...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank blacky for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 23.04.2021, 03:45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 385
Groaned at 26 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 191 Times in 122 Posts
Gravity has an excellent reputationGravity has an excellent reputationGravity has an excellent reputationGravity has an excellent reputation
Re: Ripoff: Charging per minute to be told products won't work

100% thumbs up, never be so impatient to buy first than think. Once you bought it it's your business, but if you are a potential customer it's their business


Quote:
View Post
Also, I sent inquiry to wingo.ch about something I couldn't find in the FAQ and they called me. So yeah, I was talking, but for free And they called me on my german number and I'm in germany, so it wasn't free for them either.

Adding my rant to the topic, sadly the world is moving to mobile apps. I hate it, but more and more can be achieved only via the silly mobile apps. I think I even understand why, because you cannot type much on the phone and it takes you forever so the call center "chat" person can service many clients at the same time (if it's a person at all, as 99% you chat with a robot first, even when you are switched to a human they just get robot hints of replies so chatting with them is also dense seeing those brainless responses not taking into account what was being said or asked a few lines above).

It just occurred to me that the new macbook might the secret weapon to survive in the upcoming century. You can install iOS apps on macbook with the M1 chip. Then voila, keyboard, multitasking, etc ekhhm, albite butterfly keyboard sucks as hell
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Last minute work experience McTAVGE Employment 2 12.06.2016 15:46
[UK] Incontinent woman told to ‘wear nappy’ to work Castro International affairs/politics 5 22.01.2013 16:28
Told to 'look' for new apartment (LOOK, not necessarily FIND) - how does it work? Vlh22 Housing in general 3 25.08.2011 10:34
Have you been told not to apply for work in CH ? BaselLife Employment 20 19.07.2011 20:32
EU-8 arrival for study or work - what I was told runway Permits/visas/government 1 25.07.2009 00:40


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0