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Old 24.04.2021, 02:30
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hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

So, we were using hostpoint.ch (keeping to the straight facts so mentioning them by name) for years, for a website+emails hosting and it was all ok, from a technical point of view, pretty much zero outages.
Now we sold the website to a new owner in France, canceled our contracts with hostpoint, and sent the new owners the domain transfer code.
Which they managed to forget about until it was too late, and everything was unavailable due to the domain name getting deleted.
Once this happened the new owners panicked, and tried to transfer the domain with the now invalid code. And of course it didn't work.
And so they sent an email to hostpoint. An email of which I am not sure of the content, but it seems to have been effective. Hostpoint reactivated the domain, and sent _us_ invoices for the "reactivate half dead account" fee, and for the fee for a whole new year.
They also seem to have sent the control panel login ID to the French, by email, which I am not too happy about. We later (but before knowing about this, and before getting the invoices) got email warnings that someone was trying to use this ID to log into the control panel.

And I am still flabbergasted that a random stranger could just write and create a new contract in somebody else's name, just like that.
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Old 24.04.2021, 07:24
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

I know it's a totally different scenario but I'm also surprised at the same principle where I can drop my car into the garage with a bit of damage and they will call my insurance, fix the car, get paid etc without as much as a signature from me or me talking to my insurer at all. No questions.
How does the insurer even know it's the garage and I took the car there..


Where privacy is such a big thing it feels a bit strange.. Although super convenient.
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Old 24.04.2021, 09:05
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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I know it's a totally different scenario but I'm also surprised at the same principle where I can drop my car into the garage with a bit of damage and they will call my insurance, fix the car, get paid etc without as much as a signature from me or me talking to my insurer at all. No questions.
How does the insurer even know it's the garage and I took the car there..


Where privacy is such a big thing it feels a bit strange.. Although super convenient.
In the OP case I suspect it's just a mistake, they probably forgot to change the ownership details when they reactivated the account and it triggered a bunch of emails and invoices.

A random stranger absolutely can't create a contract in your name, and unless you authorised something no contract has been created.

In the case of car insurance, why would this be a problem? The car is insured, not the person, and it seems reasonable for the insurers to assume that it wasn't stolen (maybe by the garage !?) with the specific purpose of getting it fixed.

The garage does talk to the insurer of course, and normally they send photos of the damage etc, plus they're in possession of the grey card and the vehicle and the number plate. Seems like pretty reasonable proof to me.
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Old 27.04.2021, 12:10
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

Nope, not just a mistake.
I asked hostpoint support very kindly, and the lady there was, in my opinion, very rude:

Quote:
Das müssen Sie direkt mit der entsprechenden Partei klären/die Rechnung so übergeben. Der Domainname lautet auf diesen Besitzer und somit kann die Rechnung nur so ausgestellt werden, was dann genau abgelaufen ist, steht für uns ausser Frage.
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You have to clarify this directly with the relevant party / hand over the invoice. The domain name is for this owner and therefore the invoice can only be issued in such a way, what exactly has happened is not our problem.
So it seems like people can just create new contracts in other people's name by writing to hostpoint, hostpoint will happily write the bills, and then "oh, well, deal with it, not our problem."

They also have in their general terms and conditions:
Quote:
2.4 No duty to verify authority of the Customer
Hostpoint is not obligated to verify the authority of the Customer to register, transfer or transmit the domain name. (etc)
So it seems to me like a free for all, whatever allows them to create new bills.

Such injustice makes me feel so sick and angry.
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Old 27.04.2021, 12:15
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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I know it's a totally different scenario but I'm also surprised at the same principle where I can drop my car into the garage with a bit of damage and they will call my insurance, fix the car, get paid etc without as much as a signature from me or me talking to my insurer at all. No questions.
How does the insurer even know it's the garage and I took the car there..


Where privacy is such a big thing it feels a bit strange.. Although super convenient.
Interesting. What kind of insurance do you have?
In my experience I had to first notify the insurance of what happened, they would analyse it and check if they would cover it, and if yes, would send a letter saying "ok, get it fixed and send us the bill" or, one time they wanted a second opinion, wrote something like "ok, bring it to this garage, at this address, and they will take a look at it".
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Old 27.04.2021, 12:33
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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So, we were using hostpoint.ch (keeping to the straight facts so mentioning them by name) for years, for a website+emails hosting and it was all ok, from a technical point of view, pretty much zero outages.
Now we sold the website to a new owner in France, canceled our contracts with hostpoint, and sent the new owners the domain transfer code.
Which they managed to forget about until it was too late, and everything was unavailable due to the domain name getting deleted.
Once this happened the new owners panicked, and tried to transfer the domain with the now invalid code. And of course it didn't work.
And so they sent an email to hostpoint. An email of which I am not sure of the content, but it seems to have been effective. Hostpoint reactivated the domain, and sent _us_ invoices for the "reactivate half dead account" fee, and for the fee for a whole new year.
They also seem to have sent the control panel login ID to the French, by email, which I am not too happy about. We later (but before knowing about this, and before getting the invoices) got email warnings that someone was trying to use this ID to log into the control panel.

And I am still flabbergasted that a random stranger could just write and create a new contract in somebody else's name, just like that.
I'm with hostpoint for like ever. They were always flexible and friendly.
This problem seems rather complicated und unusual. So I would not try to solve it by phone but send a registered letter, listing all the events, so they get a clear overview of the situation. You got proof of when you sold the domain-name (you can still do that?? LOL, I thought those days are over) to whom and it will be the same people who contacted hostpoint. You also have proof of when you cancelled your contracts with hospoint (got domain and webspace with them? Did you cancel both? It's two different things).

I imagine once they see through this fog, they will solve the problem for you. They may just write it off or charge the new owners but that won't be for you to worry about.
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Old 27.04.2021, 12:53
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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I'm with hostpoint for like ever. They were always flexible and friendly.
This problem seems rather complicated und unusual. So I would not try to solve it by phone but send a registered letter, listing all the events, so they get a clear overview of the situation. You got proof of when you sold the domain-name (you can still do that?? LOL, I thought those days are over) to whom and it will be the same people who contacted hostpoint. You also have proof of when you cancelled your contracts with hospoint (got domain and webspace with them? Did you cancel both? It's two different things).

I imagine once they see through this fog, they will solve the problem for you. They may just write it off or charge the new owners but that won't be for you to worry about.
We've been with them forever as well, privately and also for business.
Will be moving all of my accounts somewhere else, and yes they will be getting a registered letter. Not to solve anything, if they can't be bothered by e-mail, they won't be bothered by paper mail, but to explain why they lost a few customers.
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Old 27.04.2021, 14:16
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

Hostpoint are ok and good value if you stack up a load of domains on their service. They also write in English, at least to me.

It seems the new owners dropped the ball. Get them to pay the bill and complete the transfer, you ahould also have monitored it going out too.

Will they do that, pay the costs they caused? Otherwise, refuse the costs (you cancelled according to terms and conditions, right?) and let the process go that way.
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Old 27.04.2021, 14:49
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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It seems the new owners dropped the ball. Get them to pay the bill and complete the transfer, you ahould also have monitored it going out too.

Will they do that, pay the costs they caused? Otherwise, refuse the costs (you cancelled according to terms and conditions, right?) and let the process go that way.
Obviously (although I do not agree on the "you should also have monitored it" bit, I did monitor it, the new owners took two years to pay their first bill for the contract in the first place, not going to run after them when they were boasting how they were the best and so professional and what not, and they could do everything better and cheaper in France, and on top of it I am not quite sure yet whether it was malicious on their part to wait just a few days after the delay was over or if they were just incompetent)

but this is not about that, it is about hostpoint creating new contracts out of the blue when some others write them an email, and then on top of it not caring about anything when asking kindly what was happening.

It's like you rent a car, and give the keys back, and a month later you get a bill for a whole year of car rental, plus a new set of keys, because they couldn't find the keys when they wanted to give them to the next customer. And when you dispute it, they answer "ah, just figure it out with the other customer, they asked for it, not our problem".
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Old 27.04.2021, 14:58
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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...... It's like you rent a car, and give the keys back, and a month later you get a bill for a whole year of car rental, plus a new set of keys, because they couldn't find the keys when they wanted to give them to the next customer. And when you dispute it, they answer "ah, just figure it out with the other customer, they asked for it, not our problem".
Just a thought but it sounds a bit like you returned the license (domain) and then figured it had to be obvious to hostpoint you no longer need the rental car (webspace).
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Old 27.04.2021, 15:19
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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Just a thought but it sounds a bit like you returned the license (domain) and then figured it had to be obvious to hostpoint you no longer need the rental car (webspace).
Apologies if I was not clear enough.
The webspace+email and the domain were two separate contracts, as you said, and both were cancelled at the same time once the sales contract was signed. The domain contract had a 1 month delay during which the transfer was possible.
The webspace contract was cancelled, but is still running until the end of the yearly billing period, and it was agreed with the new owner that they could just point their name servers to that host while it was still serving content, while they were preparing everything on their side, and then make the switch once they were ready.
The transfer end date was also clearly visible in the WHOIS information, but I am not too sure if they had even heard of that, or checked it, or what they did for a whole month apart from twiddling their thumbs.
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Old 27.04.2021, 15:24
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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It's like you rent a car, and give the keys back, and a month later you get a bill for a whole year of car rental, plus a new set of keys, because they couldn't find the keys when they wanted to give them to the next customer. And when you dispute it, they answer "ah, just figure it out with the other customer, they asked for it, not our problem".
Except that in this case the rental company does not own the car, one of you do, so why should it give a toss how how you sort it out as long as it get's it's slice?
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Old 27.04.2021, 15:31
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

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Except that in this case the rental company does not own the car, one of you do, so why should it give a toss how how you sort it out as long as it get's it's slice?
Eh, we were paying them regularly (yearly) for "ownership" of the domain name, in my eyes that is a rental situation. But ok, they wouldn't own it either, they're just somewhere in the middle.
And yeah, obviously they're not giving a toss about the situation.
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Old 16.06.2021, 21:26
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Re: hostpoint automatically charging us because somebody else wrote them an e-mail

This is unbelievable!

I am sorry, and such a reply! Well indeed it should seem as their problem if they have such a clause that, ultimately, allows 3rd parties to sign a contract on your behalf. Is this even legal? You may have a case if you fight that clause, because it would seem to clash with higher laws, isn t criminal impersonation a felony in France?

In my view just not paying would create a big problem.

Good think to know your case, at least others may check those clauses before contracting...


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Nope, not just a mistake.
I asked hostpoint support very kindly, and the lady there was, in my opinion, very rude:



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So it seems like people can just create new contracts in other people's name by writing to hostpoint, hostpoint will happily write the bills, and then "oh, well, deal with it, not our problem."

They also have in their general terms and conditions:


So it seems to me like a free for all, whatever allows them to create new bills.

Such injustice makes me feel so sick and angry.
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