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Old 16.01.2023, 17:52
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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There is some bitching about the same problem here in the Fatherland. Trains being overfilled. Not quite Indian and Japanese levels of overfilling but slowly getting there.
Seems that the Deutsche Bahn did the sums and came to the conclusion that as most people work from home these days, the trains donīt need to have that many carriages. Probably the same in CH as well. Just that the suits havnīt cottoned on to the reality that workin from home as a trend is over.
That’s why the Deutsche Bahn currently looks to the Swiss example to help resolve their issues
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  #42  
Old 16.01.2023, 17:58
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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That’s why the Deutsche Bahn currently looks to the Swiss example to help resolve their issues
DB urgently needs that. I am already happy with the SBB, DB is nowhere near their league....!
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  #43  
Old 16.01.2023, 19:00
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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And re 2) I completely disagree. Of course I can find housing in the middle of nowhere but the truth is if I want to live in Geneva or Zurich, it's almost impossible to find a place, regardless of how much I am willing to pay.
So what. There's no such thing as a right to cheap central urban living space.

"I want everything, cheap, and I want it now."
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  #44  
Old 16.01.2023, 19:46
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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Maybe in Ticino. But in big cities and suburbs it's never been this bad.
You didn't live in Canton Zurich back in the mid '80s it seems.

Tom
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  #45  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:00
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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So what. There's no such thing as a right to cheap central urban living space.

"I want everything, cheap, and I want it now."
I agree. I find the complaints a bit weird. Many of us would like the most beautiful apartment at the best location but it is not possible. Should we just all live in the one same building in the city center, maybe like here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxha9T-eScc

Still even in the above example which floor is the best, which view from the window

As the cities get bigger it is natural that there will be price differences. We have different budgets but also different preferences on how to spend money. People who don't have enough money for "basics" in Switzerland are rare. Sending kids to riding course is a luxury almost everywhere in the world. I have a comfortable budget and do not intend to buy a place in city center because I don't consider it is worth the price for me. Yes, I'd like to be in a bigger, prettier and more central apartment but I am not willing to pay for it, many things I cannot afford either, and I am fine with that. I am not OK with complaints that certain housing is "unaffordable" when it is not possible to be affordable for everybody anyways. If someone manages to design such bigger cities I will be happy to see that

Another thing is that cities and countries should be designed and incentivised so that job opportunities are widespread and most have decent job opportunities nearby. What I mean here: In case you have a city of size of London and all the jobs were just in the central 1km radius that would have been ill thought and difficult for many because there wouldn't be enough alternatives.

From my perspective unaffordable housing is when people are living in poor conditions, not enough heating, not enough water, mould, damaged walls, unsafe structures, etc.
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  #46  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:02
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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And do you think there will be more and more civil unrest?

There certainly will be here if you continue posting fake news !
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  #47  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:13
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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I agree. I find the complaints a bit weird. Many of us would like the most beautiful apartment at the best location but it is not possible. Should we just all live in the one same building in the city center, maybe like here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxha9T-eScc

Still even in the above example which floor is the best, which view from the window

As the cities get bigger it is natural that there will be price differences. We have different budgets but also different preferences on how to spend money. People who don't have enough money for "basics" in Switzerland are rare. Sending kids to riding course is a luxury almost everywhere in the world. I have a comfortable budget and do not intend to buy a place in city center because I don't consider it is worth the price for me. Yes, I'd like to be in a bigger, prettier and more central apartment but I am not willing to pay for it, many things I cannot afford either, and I am fine with that. I am not OK with complaints that certain housing is "unaffordable" when it is not possible to be affordable for everybody anyways. If someone manages to design such bigger cities I will be happy to see that

Another thing is that cities and countries should be designed and incentivised so that job opportunities are widespread and most have decent job opportunities nearby. What I mean here: In case you have a city of size of London and all the jobs were just in the central 1km radius that would have been ill thought and difficult for many because there wouldn't be enough alternatives.

From my perspective unaffordable housing is when people are living in poor conditions, not enough heating, not enough water, mould, damaged walls, unsafe structures, etc.
Totally agree. And well, to a previous comment on this thread, there is actually no “working class” or any other “class” in Switzerland . That’s a UK thing.
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  #48  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:30
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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So what. There's no such thing as a right to cheap central urban living space.

"I want everything, cheap, and I want it now."
It's not about being cheap, I recently sent applications for expensive places as well to no avail. There are not enough apartments, that's it. Last place I visited was well over 4k and some people applied without even seeing the place.

Should've moved during covid as it would've been way easier but too late now.
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  #49  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:32
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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You didn't live in Canton Zurich back in the mid '80s it seems.

Tom
Indeed I was a toddler back then.
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  #50  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:34
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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It's not about being cheap, I recently sent applications for expensive places as well to no avail. There are not enough apartments, that's it. Last place I visited was well over 4k and some people applied without even seeing the place.

Should've moved during covid as it would've been way easier but too late now.
So your actual complaint is (complaints corner) …
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  #51  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:35
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

Switzerland Heading Towards a Housing Crisis?
https://www.accurity.ch/2022/11/15/l...s-search-tips/

"A real estate study by the Raiffeisen Bank published in July 2022, shows that space is running out in Switzerland and predicts that there will be a future housing crisis as the vacancy rate moves below 1% in 2024. In fact, the study confirms that there are now fewer properties to rent in Switzerland than there were 10 years ago."

Bank predicts a significant housing shortage in Switzerland over the next year
https://www.iamexpat.ch/housing/real...over-next-year

And this, from our very own "The Local":

Switzerland set to experience housing shortage and (even) higher rents in 2023
https://www.thelocal.ch/20221028/swi...-rents-in-2023
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  #52  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:38
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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Birth rate around 1.45 https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-1850-2020/

meaning without immigration ultimately you would get your space on the train, however there would only be one train a day, if your lucky.

Every country needs immigration of people able to work as the local birth rates in Europe are too low. The reality is we should be getting the bunting out that Switzerland still attracts people.

If no one wanted to come to switzerland, then we'd be in real trouble.
I agree however Switzerland should increase train cadence and build more houses then. In big cities the shortage is huge. Also as less and less office space is needed they could turn this space into apartments.
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  #53  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:42
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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I agree however Switzerland should increase train cadence and build more houses then. In big cities the shortage is huge. Also as less and less office space is needed they could turn this space into apartments.
So you should change one of the best countries in the World to live with the best infrastructure in Europe according to your budget?
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  #54  
Old 16.01.2023, 20:48
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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I agree however Switzerland should increase train cadence and build more houses then. In big cities the shortage is huge. Also as less and less office space is needed they could turn this space into apartments.
Lots of houses are built in Switzerland. Where there is space to build.
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Old 16.01.2023, 21:42
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

It's known that the rental market here is often extremely competitive (there are plenty of articles about it on the internet). When I first moved here, we had a very affordable 2-bedroom apartment in central Zurich (only 1,700 CHF per month at the time), and there were almost 100 applicants for it. Some were even literally expressing desperation to be approved for it.

In terms of new apartments (new builds), I suspect those are usually a bit pricey because they are new. And of course, when landlords know they can charge a lot for rent, and especially because of the competitive market, they will.

I do think that Switzerland is pretty good in terms of infrastructure in general. But they do seem to like to fit as much as possible into the tiniest space possible here. In the village next to ours (Nanikon), there are apartment buildings being built left and right and all within a very tiny space. The upside to that, though, is that there are more open spaces to enjoy.
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Old 16.01.2023, 21:47
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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But, feel free to complain to the SBB about your experience: https://www.sbb.ch/en/help-and-conta...-comments.html . Actually, I'd be interested to hear how they react.
They might invest in more trolling-stock.
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Old 17.01.2023, 00:01
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

Must admit I've had a chuckle at this thread. I lived in the most outer borough of London for 20 years from 1984 - 2004 (London Borough of Havering) and London is the worst place to be a commuter.

I've been delayed for hours by "cows on the line" in inner city Stepney, "problems at Gas Corner" (also Stepney), major incidents like commuters having heart attacks and strokes whilst commuting; also a number of suicide incidents. My sister was once waiting on a train from Goodmayes to Liverpool Street when a guy next to her jumped in front of one that didn't stop there, she was treated for shock and had to go home.

I just think myself lucky I wasn't there for the bombings in 2005 as I would most likely have been on one of the underground trains affected going to work. Previously we had the IRA bombs in the City, my neighbour lost her job when the Baltic Exchange was blown up.

Commuting in Switzerland is nothing to complain about in comparison.
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Old 17.01.2023, 11:46
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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It's not about being cheap, I recently sent applications for expensive places as well to no avail. There are not enough apartments, that's it. Last place I visited was well over 4k and some people applied without even seeing the place.

Should've moved during covid as it would've been way easier but too late now.



That is cheap for Zurich !
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  #59  
Old 17.01.2023, 11:49
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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I agree however Switzerland should increase train cadence and build more houses then. In big cities the shortage is huge. Also as less and less office space is needed they could turn this space into apartments.

Train cadence is almost at saturation point already, if you really think it is shit here, try the UK or Germany for that matter.


Switzerland is strictly zoned, plenty of house building going on and in any case shouldn't build too many houses or prices will fall and this will attract a lot of "fruity" rif-faff in to trhe country
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Old 17.01.2023, 11:50
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Re: Growing population and infrastructure not made for this scale

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It's known that the rental market here is often extremely competitive (there are plenty of articles about it on the internet). When I first moved here, we had a very affordable 2-bedroom apartment in central Zurich (only 1,700 CHF per month at the time), and there were almost 100 applicants for it. Some were even literally expressing desperation to be approved for it.

In terms of new apartments (new builds), I suspect those are usually a bit pricey because they are new. And of course, when landlords know they can charge a lot for rent, and especially because of the competitive market, they will.

I do think that Switzerland is pretty good in terms of infrastructure in general. But they do seem to like to fit as much as possible into the tiniest space possible here. In the village next to ours (Nanikon), there are apartment buildings being built left and right and all within a very tiny space. The upside to that, though, is that there are more open spaces to enjoy.
Which is funny, because Nanikon is a traditional agricultural commune with exactly two inns. Planting all those blocks of flats is a tad inappropriate imho. I wish such places could remain....unspoiled.
(I have a friend living there and I know the place)
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