Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 07.02.2023, 17:12
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich City
Posts: 7,835
Groaned at 609 Times in 359 Posts
Thanked 9,750 Times in 4,529 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
I am actually a positive psychologist so seeking resolution and solutions is my profession…
With respect, I do hope you are able to help your clients / patients see the wood from the trees better than you have done here. Because here, it is simply and utterly abysmal. Given a better and concise outline of the problem that you have described as „not complex“, then there would most likely have been people on here in a position to offer points here and there.

But you cannot possibly believe that anyone is going to try to make sense of your non-sensical, lengthy rants (probably the longest in history in all the years of this forum), and try to offer free legal advice.

I you own property(ies), especially here in Switzerland, then you need to have the spare cash to be able to clarify through paid lawyers when such disputes arise that you are unable to clarify otherwise. Or at the minimum a legal insurance.
The following 5 users would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 07.02.2023, 17:23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Baden
Posts: 79
Groaned at 9 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 94 Times in 40 Posts
Xonic is considered knowledgeableXonic is considered knowledgeableXonic is considered knowledgeable
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

I'm at a loss for words...

A couple points:

1. You're wasting so much of your time and energy on this, you absolutely need a Swiss or someone speaking German liason to deal with this. Google Translate / deepl will NOT cut it in regards to legal disputes. This is an absolute minefield you're walking on.

2. Gather all the relevant documentation, ideally compile a short, concise, emotionless summary for a lawyer to review. Agree on a cap for the fees.

3. Getting money back or paying less because you own a holiday apartment in an apartment block where other people live all year doesn't make sense, it's your space, you'll pay for it according to the contracts you signed. Otherwise it would be an absolute nightmare to keep track who's there at what time and for how long.
The following 9 users would like to thank Xonic for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:17
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 9,216
Groaned at 400 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,110 Times in 4,844 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

@Swissroll (and how come this username has not been taken after nearly 20 years and thousands of members?)

You state the the chalet is made up of 5 apartments - do the other 4 parties have similar problems??
  #44  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:19
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
I have no idea why. This is charming, polite and inviting for a conversation.
Thank you, this is my point. I am not an “angriffe” person. I just want to arrive at a fair and reasonable outcome, but in the absence of any courteous reply to me, what am I to do when the response to me is full of threats, outrageous demands and illegal actions (not my description but the statement of the verwalter himself)? I cannot afford more delays and more loss of income, so “get an [expensive] lawyer is not helpful even if ideally it would be a solutions. Lawyers should be a last resort because once they are involved, simple problems become complicated and expensive to resolve, while fees climb like a rocket.
  #45  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:23
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
@Swissroll (and how come this username has not been taken after nearly 20 years and thousands of members?)

You state the the chalet is made up of 5 apartments - do the other 4 parties have similar problems??
The other apartments were not affected, because only I have a room downstairs as part of my property. They were not affected by the repair work because it was done to the building, using my downstairs room for access to the necessary areas inside the building walls and under the floor.

My neighbour on the ground floor is fully supportive of me and has argued for me on my behalf. He also has my proxy vote for meetings. The other three owners upstairs do not care and do not want to be involved and have left it with the verwalter as the easy option.
This user would like to thank Swissroll for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:23
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 1,267
Groaned at 63 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 1,844 Times in 743 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

I'm not an expert on STOWE Abrechnungen but I do have quite a bit of experience in damage events with rented apartments and HK/NK Abrechnungen.

From what I gathered you want a reduction in heating/electric costs for the time period when the damage was caused.

This is something that has to be requested from the insurance and has no bearing on the Stowe Abrechnung. They have their effective costs and they will be divided up as per the agreed upon distribution table. Any reductions is a insurance matter.
The following 5 users would like to thank Downerbuzz for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:30
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
I'm at a loss for words...

A couple points:

1. You're wasting so much of your time and energy on this, you absolutely need a Swiss or someone speaking German liason to deal with this. Google Translate / deepl will NOT cut it in regards to legal disputes. This is an absolute minefield you're walking on.

2. Gather all the relevant documentation, ideally compile a short, concise, emotionless summary for a lawyer to review. Agree on a cap for the fees.

3. Getting money back or paying less because you own a holiday apartment in an apartment block where other people live all year doesn't make sense, it's your space, you'll pay for it according to the contracts you signed. Otherwise it would be an absolute nightmare to keep track who's there at what time and for how long.

Points one and two I agree with in principle.

Point three not. Because I lost the use of my property so the builders could repair the building, not my apartment. Why should I pay nebnekosten on the part of my property made unusable by building faults, and which had to be left unused so it could be used as a building site for the VGB building insurance repairs to access internal building facilities?

All i am asking for is a 20% reduction in the contributions - because that is the part of my property unusable (a measurable because it is a self contained room) because it was needed for guiding works not for me, but for the building’s repair. As a result I am being not even answered or have it discussed. Literally no response to my concerns. Just a demand, on Sunday, that everything is paid in 10 days or he will cut off the heating and change the locks (and he says he does not care about the illegality of this, in writing).

The police have said they would accompany me to regain access and I would be able to take a locksmith to do this. I could also force the heating back on. But I do not want to escalate it by physical intervention, unlike the verwalter, when my request is so reasonable. As you can see I have very politely tried to talk to him, but his response was the threats I described.
The following 2 users groan at Swissroll for this post:
  #48  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:31
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 11,007
Groaned at 737 Times in 543 Posts
Thanked 15,086 Times in 7,927 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

For someone claiming to be a psychologist OP's posts are incredibly onesided. It's almost as if the notion of people validly disagreeing with OP is utterly impossible, nor does OP appear to even consider the possibility that others could be in the right.

Contentious points:
i) 25% higher charges? Is it directly accesssible from your apartment? Nebenkosten are apportioned based on lived-in area. Cellars, garages, and similar areas outside the apartment itself are generally not part of the equation. Your description makes it sound like a separate underfloor room to me.

ii) Possible lack of care of the underfloor room. Using it as a storage room will reduce air circulation and block parts from view or access. Not a good thing when broken pipes are lurking in the dark. That aside, follow-on consequences and costs of an insured event are usually not covered, including OP's storage.

iii) Placing the claim. Before 2022 only the damaged party was able to place a claim against their insurance, in this case that would be OP. That may make the 1600 individual charge well justified if the Verwalter had to convince the insurance of the validity of the claim. It's also likely to render OP's first reports in 2019 moot because the claim was against the insurance.

iv) AirBnB'ing or otherwise short term letting an apartment in a family building, which necessarily results in an increased number of unknown strangers in the building anytime. No owner, let alone parent worth that term will like that, least of all when they bought their apartment with that in mind. This is pretty much guaranteed to result in what OP might characterise as "four racist sexist misogynistic xenophobe parties against one totally innocent Brit" situation.
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
This user groans at Urs Max for this post:
  #49  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:40
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Quote:
View Post
I'm not an expert on STOWE Abrechnungen but I do have quite a bit of experience in damage events with rented apartments and HK/NK Abrechnungen.

From what I gathered you want a reduction in heating/electric costs for the time period when the damage was caused.

This is something that has to be requested from the insurance and has no bearing on the Stowe Abrechnung. They have their effective costs and they will be divided up as per the agreed upon distribution table. Any reductions is a insurance matter.
So you think the basic buildings insurance claim should cover the nebenkosten for the room (which is charged to me separately from my apartment as a line item in the accounts) for the period of the work? This is something I suggested to the verwalter last spring, the previous verwalter who was replaced in June. I cannot make a claim for this, as it is not my insurance policy. It is the GVB insurance policy which covered and paid for all the work, and which is administered by…. Yes, the Verwalter! If he will not put in this as part of the claim (which is now closed) how can I get the insurance to cover this?

Should I just make a payment proactively according to my calculations which I believe I owe, and politely suggest the verwalter claims the rest back from the building insurance claim he has administered (because it is not my insurance policy but the basic building insurance, so I cannot make a claim on the GVB policy myself)? It may seem complex, but it is really very simple cause and effect. How it is being dealt with by the verwalter not discussing or communicating with me, and then threatening me, is what is so insane. I have never had any problems like this in the building, which in which I have owned my apartment for 10 years, and my mother 10 years before that.

Quote:
View Post
With respect, I do hope you are able to help your clients / patients see the wood from the trees better than you have done here. Because here, it is simply and utterly abysmal. Given a better and concise outline of the problem that you have described as „not complex“, then there would most likely have been people on here in a position to offer points here and there.

But you cannot possibly believe that anyone is going to try to make sense of your non-sensical, lengthy rants (probably the longest in history in all the years of this forum), and try to offer free legal advice.

I you own property(ies), especially here in Switzerland, then you need to have the spare cash to be able to clarify through paid lawyers when such disputes arise that you are unable to clarify otherwise. Or at the minimum a legal insurance.
Since my original post (made in the “rant” section of this forum, appropriately) I have been completely clear, articulate, unemotional and descriptive of the problem. I am not sure what part of my continuing posts you feel are nonsensical rants, especially as I was asked to explain the background to my first post to put it context, so I did. What is your problem with my following posts which were simply informative?

Last edited by roegner; 07.02.2023 at 18:45. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
The following 3 users groan at Swissroll for this post:
  #50  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:46
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,346
Groaned at 47 Times in 41 Posts
Thanked 4,804 Times in 1,898 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Should I jut do what I want because it's what I want to do? I've convinced myself my way is the only reasonable way.

Go get professional advice. If you do it your way you'll need a lawyer to sort out a bigger mess.
  #51  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:48
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is online now
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 6,326
Groaned at 124 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 9,393 Times in 4,432 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
Thank you, this is my point. I am not an “angriffe” person. I just want to arrive at a fair and reasonable outcome, but in the absence of any courteous reply to me, what am I to do when the response to me is full of threats, outrageous demands and illegal actions (not my description but the statement of the verwalter himself)? I cannot afford more delays and more loss of income, so “get an [expensive] lawyer is not helpful even if ideally it would be a solutions. Lawyers should be a last resort because once they are involved, simple problems become complicated and expensive to resolve, while fees climb like a rocket.
Sorry, I was being sarcastic.

Forget about self-deprecating humor and other fillers in the text. Straight to the point and nothing else. There are no excuses for not mastering the local language. It is expected that a property owner could hire a translator, otherwise this person is not serious. Some forum members offer translation services during calls and appointments but the situation seems to be above the skills of a translator.

Talk to a lawyer immediately. All those emails you have already sent can be used against you by putting your mental capacity in doubt.
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:49
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,050
Groaned at 425 Times in 361 Posts
Thanked 18,346 Times in 8,344 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

You write:

I do not want to involve lawyers at 300-400 CHF per hour for a matter so self evidently simple to discuss and agree on.

Well, did that work or what was the reason for the rant here?
  #53  
Old 07.02.2023, 18:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Zurich City
Posts: 7,835
Groaned at 609 Times in 359 Posts
Thanked 9,750 Times in 4,529 Posts
ZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond reputeZuriRollt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
For someone claiming to be a psychologist OP's posts are incredibly onesided. It's almost as if the notion of people validly disagreeing with OP is utterly impossible, nor does OP appear to even consider the possibility that others could be in the right.
Googled it. Positive psychology It is not a science that needs to be studied at any recognised university etc. It is a „Movement“.

A couple of their beliefs are:

1. People overestimate the impact of money on their happiness by quite a lot. It does have some influence, but not nearly as much as we might think, so focusing less on attaining wealth will likely make you happier

2. Spending money on experiences provides a bigger boost to happiness than spending money on material possessions

Source:
https://positivepsychology.com/what-...gy-definition/
This user would like to thank ZuriRollt for this useful post:
This user groans at ZuriRollt for this post:
  #54  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:04
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post

contentious points:
I) 25% higher charges? Is it directly accesssible from your apartment? Nebenkosten are apportioned based on lived-in area. Cellars, garages, and similar areas outside the apartment itself are generally not part of the equation. Your description makes it sound like a separate underfloor room to me.

Yes it is a separate room, with carpet heating and lighting, and has historically always been charged nebenkosten and is part of my property (20-25% of the floor are depending how it is measured. So all i am requesting is the nebenkosten for this room, the subject of all the work - be suspended for the period the room was made u usable by problems with the building plumbing flooding it, until the repairs to the internal plumbing of the bulding, using my room to access them, were finished.

Ii) possible lack of care of the underfloor room. Using it as a storage room will reduce air circulation and block parts from view or access. Not a good thing when broken pipes are lurking in the dark. That aside, follow-on consequences and costs of an insured event are usually not covered, including op's storage.

It is a fully lit and heated room, with two windows and your assumptions are wrong. There is a sofa, bed, cupboards in that room. In the past it has even been used as a guestroom. The insurance report confirms the problems are with the plumbing in the wall, faulty workmanship in the past, faulty materials, and the pipe under my floor is deeply buried and is a condensation and humidity removal pipe which was discovered tk be corroded and had to be replace, by digging up my floor in that room! What part of “this is not my fault, has nothing to do with me, and i had to lose the use if my property so the workmen could use it to make repairs to the building is not obvious to you.”

iii) placing the claim. Before 2022 only the damaged party was able to place a claim against their insurance, in this case that would be op. That may make the 1600 individual charge well justified if the verwalter had to convince the insurance of the validity of the claim. It's also likely to render op's first reports in 2019 moot because the claim was against the insurance.

The verwalter did not have to convince them of the validity of the claim. I had to force the claim to be started, and then i had to administrate it to begin with because the verwalter would not get involved, trying to avoid responsibility. Even if the 1600 charge was somehow justified, it should not be charged to me, but to all apartment owners as it is a buildings repair claim, not a claim by me.
The claim for a reduction prior to 2022 dating back to 2019 for a reduction is reasonable because that js when the damage was identified, and brought to the verwalter’s attention, who i. The reglement of the building is responsible for immediately acting to repair any damage to the bulding, and with particulr emphasis on his responsibility to act urgently if the damage is likely to. Ause further damage if it is not stopped. This is actually in the responsibilities listed and conditions under which the verwalter is appointed. The verwalter was made aware in 2019 but did not act. It is likely the water leak in the wall soaked into and under my concrete underfloor and then corroded the condensation pipe which also had to be replaced, so his lack of action led to further damage. This is negligent.

Iv) airbnb'ing or otherwise short term letting an apartment in a family building, which necessarily results in an increased number of unknown strangers in the building anytime. No owner, let alone parent worth that term will like that, least of all when they bought their apartment with that in mind. This is pretty much guaranteed to result in what op might characterise as "four racist sexist misogynistic xenophobe parties against one totally innocent brit" situation.
your final point is irrelevant to the letteing of a ***holiday*** chalet which is not the permenent residence of any of the owners. Many have periodically let their apartments for holiday lets for income. It is legal, permissable, taxes are paid to the local gemeinde for occupancy and my property, my right to do as i please with it. Noteably, i have never received a complaint about any of my guests.

Your speculatin about holiday lets is moot, as it is not germane to my request for help in the core of the matter, with repsect.
This user groans at Swissroll for this post:
  #55  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:06
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
Googled it. Positive psychology It is not a science that needs to be studied at any recognised university etc. It is a „Movement“.

A couple of their beliefs are:

1. People overestimate the impact of money on their happiness by quite a lot. It does have some influence, but not nearly as much as we might think, so focusing less on attaining wealth will likely make you happier

2. Spending money on experiences provides a bigger boost to happiness than spending money on material possessions

Source:
https://positivepsychology.com/what-...gy-definition/
I don’t really care about your opinion of my profession nor your “googled” wisdom, Herr Zurich Roll.
This user groans at Swissroll for this post:
  #56  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:09
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
You write:

I do not want to involve lawyers at 300-400 CHF per hour for a matter so self evidently simple to discuss and agree on.

Well, did that work or what was the reason for the rant here?
To avoid going to lawyers in case someone had some helpful advice and not mocked me instead? I find this reaction remarkable, although I admit I should have written about the context first (which I did this morning) instead of posting the draft human rights argument first (which though legally accurate I do admit was a mistake to post first before explaining the problem), but again, this is the part of the forum where people are encouraged to “let of steam,” which I was in desperate need to do. It wasn’t a rant, just an admittedly very long winded for the sake of being legally accurate though. Hence the long and short versions.
This user groans at Swissroll for this post:
  #57  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:14
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, I was being sarcastic.

Forget about self-deprecating humor and other fillers in the text. Straight to the point and nothing else. There are no excuses for not mastering the local language. It is expected that a property owner could hire a translator, otherwise this person is not serious. Some forum members offer translation services during calls and appointments but the situation seems to be above the skills of a translator.

Talk to a lawyer immediately. All those emails you have already sent can be used against you by putting your mental capacity in doubt.
I don’t need a translator. Was my letter in german wrong, in any way, that I posted earlier? I use deepl to double check what I have written and then retranslate back to ensure no mistakes have been made. I do speak german, and I write to him in german. Your remarks are just mistaken.

As for questioning my mental capacity, as I’ve said, the arguments in what you call a rant are actually legally correct. The verwalter threatening me with actions he says he does not care about the legality of, and in his demands says he will not discuss anything with me, shows a lack of mental capacity on his part, if you are going to go down that route. For the record, again, I have not sent that original post. It was put up for comment. I have since explained myself calmly and fully.
The following 2 users groan at Swissroll for this post:
  #58  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:23
roegner's Avatar
Moderately Dutch
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,050
Groaned at 425 Times in 361 Posts
Thanked 18,346 Times in 8,344 Posts
roegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond reputeroegner has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
I don’t need a translator. Was my letter in german wrong, in any way, that I posted earlier? I use deepl to double check what I have written and then retranslate back to ensure no mistakes have been made. I do speak german, and I write to him in german. Your remarks are just mistaken.

As for questioning my mental capacity, as I’ve said, the arguments in what you call a rant are actually legally correct. The verwalter threatening me with actions he says he does not care about the legality of, and in his demands says he will not discuss anything with me, shows a lack of mental capacity on his part, if you are going to go down that route. For the record, again, I have not sent that original post. It was put up for comment. I have since explained myself calmly and fully.
From a psychological perspective your first post was enlightning.

Doesn‘t change the fact though that you need a lawyer, as others have already said.
The following 4 users would like to thank roegner for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:24
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 9,216
Groaned at 400 Times in 275 Posts
Thanked 14,110 Times in 4,844 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

20%, but how much money are talking about here?

Is it really worth all this angst??
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 07.02.2023, 19:31
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Oberland
Posts: 26
Groaned at 43 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Swissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisanceSwissroll is considered a nuisance
Re: Nebenkosten/STOWE arguments - legal advice needed

Quote:
View Post
I take it you are not in the country now, hence the reason you are doing everything over email? To be honest, your "friendly" email comes across as, at best, passive aggressive, if not mildly threatening.

You're basically at an impasse. Quoting all the human rights and Swiss / international law nonsense at him, as well as alluding to his "criminal" behaviour is pointless unless you are going to engage on a legal basis. You won't pay for a lawyer so the Verwaltung guy will just stand firm till you give up. If you owe money which you are defending your rights not to pay with nothing more than shouty emails, you are the one in the weak position and if he decides to lawyer up, you're just a sitting duck.
My email to him was formal and polite and asking for a conversation. What is passive aggressive about that?

Secondly, you miss my point. The legal argument in my “rant” make his actions criminal as opposed to unlawful. Therefor a matter for the authorities and police, not a lawyer at my cost. It also acts as a stern warning to not “act above the law, because I don’t care about the law.” A criminal complaint is far more serious for a man in the position of a verwalter than a civil matter.

I am not in the wrong here, and am utterly startled by the attempt to show sympathy for a verwalter who is meant to be an impartial arbitrator and manager but who refuses to discuss my long standing concerns and the resorts to incredible threats against me any my property, as if I should be abase myself in front of a god and sacrifice myself to his will (sarcasm)
The following 2 users groan at Swissroll for this post:
Closed Thread

Tags
debts, nebenkosten, stowe, verwalter




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Legal Advice Needed Lejoker Leaving Switzerland 9 06.09.2013 13:44
Legal Advice needed Valentina19 Family matters/health 28 11.06.2013 21:21
Quick legal advice needed emanu72 Housing in general 23 02.02.2011 09:27
Advice Needed: legal options against an online business bananafisch Other/general 11 08.05.2010 15:21
Legal advice needed - Dispute with property agent fruitbear Housing in general 12 29.08.2009 21:57


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0