Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Living in Switzerland > Complaints corner  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old 10.10.2008, 00:16
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Just traveled to the USA with my Swiss husband and his parents. Had a fabulous time with them, but had to remind my father-in-law (several times) not to stare at people, especially when we walked through questionable areas where staring at the wrong person can get the response What the f*** are you looking at? or worse.

My husband`s mother was surprised to learn that in the USA we teach children that staring is impolite. She pointed out that in Switzerland it is appropriate to stare (it annoys me less if I think of it as actively observing) but not appropriate to ask a stranger multiple questions that border on personal. In the USA, I would say the opposite is true.

Oddly enough, this last visit to the USA I kept finding myself being annoyed that people kept asking so many damn questions. I just wanted to tell them to mind their own business. Had to keep reminding myself that this is how people show friendliness and that they are just curious.

Anyway, back to the state of staring in Switzerland. I am white, normal looking and my husband is Swiss...if anyone is taking a tally, people stare at us all of the time, even if I am not speaking and thus calling attention to my foreign accent. My Swiss husband does not think it is rude at all, which drives me crazy. I SOOO want a sign to hold up that says NICHT ANSTAREN or Bish im kino, oder was?

I do not think I will ever get used to it. When I first moved here, I would smile at the staring person, but this is not really very affective and they NEVER smile back. They either look away or just keep looking. Once or twice, when I was in a crabby mood, I gave someone a look like this: They finally looked away. Yes, immature. And I enjoyed it.
__________________
The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. Ralph Sockman
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sonnyk for this useful post:
  #122  
Old 10.10.2008, 08:52
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 949
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 1,105 Times in 470 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Where I come from, parents ( excepting the bad ones surely ) teach their children that they should not be selfish, individualist, superficial and double faced ( among other niceties ) .

Here is evidently not the case.

So I guess the staring thing is a very minor thing in comparison.

Such poorly constructed sentences I don't know what exactly to make out out of them.

Firstly, what's wrong with being individualistic?

Secondly, having a swiss mother I don't know where you get your ideas from. Having grown up on 3 continents and various countries I can assure you that the problem you mentioned is a global one and hardly restricted to Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 10.10.2008, 14:43
sonnyk's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kanton Zug-Baar
Posts: 147
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 56 Times in 34 Posts
sonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeablesonnyk is considered knowledgeable
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Hi Salsa,

I hope you are not saying that you think the Swiss think it is OK to be selfish superficial and double-faced? I do not think any society actually thinks that those characteristics/values are ones that they actively want to instill in their children. (I deliberately omit the word `individualistic` since I personally do not think that being individualistic is inherently evil, but like all philosophies having to do with society and culture, individualism has some implications that are positive and some that are negative. But then again, I come from the USA, a culture which is intrinsically individualistic. )

Quote:
View Post
Where I come from, parents ( excepting the bad ones surely ) teach their children that they should not be selfish, individualist, superficial and double faced ( among other niceties ) .

Here is evidently not the case.

So I guess the staring thing is a very minor thing in comparison.
__________________
The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority. Ralph Sockman
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 14.09.2010, 22:54
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Before to move to Europe, I didn't know what was a Mail Order Bride.

I am now since a while here and I see a lot of swiss guys with a wife from a different culture.

Which is a big contradiction when you see how ''in general'' swiss are not that open to expats. So how to explain their mixed marriage? I am not saying all of them are mail bride order because I am not even close to know how popular this is here.

Does someone have been here long enough to enlighten me?
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 14.09.2010, 23:18
mabern's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: V.South West of Zurich
Posts: 1,193
Groaned at 7 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 417 Times in 285 Posts
mabern has an excellent reputationmabern has an excellent reputationmabern has an excellent reputationmabern has an excellent reputation
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

I'm European but only heard the term on moving to Switzerland. There are grooms too, it isn't a sexist thing!
Mail order is a bit strong.
However there is often a marked race/ cultural/age/economic status difference in couple's which is not so common in countries that are poorer or have more liberal residential requirements...
Reply With Quote
  #126  
Old 14.09.2010, 23:25
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Today I came across a couple that caught my eye, but I think I managed not to stare: a young African man walking around holding the hand of a very much older Swiss woman. And it is true I thought 'hey up'- and I haven't got the tiniest little racist streak in me.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 14.09.2010, 23:25
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

If you look on Google under Mail Order Bride, you have a whole world openning to you. From website where you can order, to forums support for the one who order and forums for the brides. It looks like it is a BIG market.

You say you just heard this when you came in Switzerland. How come? It is more popular here? Or more open to talk about this reality?

Mind, I am just curious. This is a subject I don't know much about and I try to know more.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 14.09.2010, 23:35
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,239
Groaned at 351 Times in 284 Posts
Thanked 23,463 Times in 8,477 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Before to move to Europe, I didn't know what was a Mail Order Bride.

I am now since a while here and I see a lot of swiss guys with a wife from a different culture.

Which is a big contradiction when you see how ''in general'' swiss are not that open to expats. So how to explain their mixed marriage? I am not saying all of them are mail bride order because I am not even close to know how popular this is here.

Does someone have been here long enough to enlighten me?
Ok, this thread was really not worth diggin' out... but just some thoughts:

- there are 30% foreigners in Zurich. This naturally leads to mixed marriages. BTW did I once read a statistic that equally many Swiss girls marry foreigners. It just seems to me that they generally chose more Europeans - Germans were on top of the list.

- Switzerland is a very very rich country. So if you happen to be a "potential mail order bride" - a woman who grew up in a poor country and trying to find a husband in a richer country to have a family with... Switzerland would be on top of your list.

- Switzerland is a rich country, so far more people here than elsewher can afford to do long distance vacations... and if you happen to travel to Thailand, Brazil or Russia chances are that you might meet somebody attractive there.

- Standard of living is very high here and you can support a family with one salary. A mail-order bride would typically not have had the chance to get an education - if she had a chance for a good life at home, she would most probably not be willing to leave home... so they are on average not able to find a job, but want to be house wifes and mothers. In most other countries this is becoming increasingly difficult and far fewer, well educated men could easily offer this. Those men can typically find local dates as well... here the potential market for husbands that can feed the entire family is far bigger...

Just some of the more obvious thoughts.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 14.09.2010, 23:54
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
If you look on Google under Mail Order Bride, you have a whole world openning to you. From website where you can order, to forums support for the one who order and forums for the brides. It looks like it is a BIG market.

You say you just heard this when you came in Switzerland. How come? It is more popular here? Or more open to talk about this reality?

Mind, I am just curious. This is a subject I don't know much about and I try to know more.
Here an old article in french for you: why swiss men prefer foreigners.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #130  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:35
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Ok, this thread was really not worth diggin' out... but just some thoughts:

- there are 30% foreigners in Zurich. This naturally leads to mixed marriages. BTW did I once read a statistic that equally many Swiss girls marry foreigners. It just seems to me that they generally chose more Europeans - Germans were on top of the list.

- Switzerland is a very very rich country. So if you happen to be a "potential mail order bride" - a woman who grew up in a poor country and trying to find a husband in a richer country to have a family with... Switzerland would be on top of your list.

- Switzerland is a rich country, so far more people here than elsewher can afford to do long distance vacations... and if you happen to travel to Thailand, Brazil or Russia chances are that you might meet somebody attractive there.

- Standard of living is very high here and you can support a family with one salary. A mail-order bride would typically not have had the chance to get an education - if she had a chance for a good life at home, she would most probably not be willing to leave home... so they are on average not able to find a job, but want to be house wifes and mothers. In most other countries this is becoming increasingly difficult and far fewer, well educated men could easily offer this. Those men can typically find local dates as well... here the potential market for husbands that can feed the entire family is far bigger...

Just some of the more obvious thoughts.
That was the obvious. I am looking for some deeper reasons. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:43
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Here an old article in french for you: why swiss men prefer foreigners.
This article is awesome. It gives a very good analyse of the whole situation on the relation between swiss men and women.

They are so far away in what they are looking for in a relationship. This article explain all kind of reasons why more men then women are looking for partners from other cultures and why so many swiss women can't find a man.

If the society here didn't keep their women for so long behind the stove, I believe those same women wouldn't be so hungry for independance. And those same men who were comfortable to keep things the way it was are now suffering from their own mistakes.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:45
phdoofus's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: City by the Bay
Posts: 2,357
Groaned at 96 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 3,205 Times in 1,227 Posts
phdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond reputephdoofus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
From website where you can order, to forums support for the one who order and forums for the brides. It looks like it is a BIG market.
You can't order a bride like a book from Amazon.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:46
mirfield's Avatar
Moddy Wellies
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 8,728
Groaned at 53 Times in 47 Posts
Thanked 9,937 Times in 3,652 Posts
mirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond reputemirfield has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

It's not always the man who does the paying.

I was once offered 12,000 CHF to marry a rather beautiful Ukranian girl. I declined but, last I heard, she'd married a Swiss guy.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:55
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,550
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,883 Times in 8,863 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Ok, this thread was really not worth diggin' out...
But worth pontificating on.

"Mail order bride" is a term used in the UK as well, where users of the services tend to be men who have difficulty meeting, and/or interacting with women. It does seem to be more prevelant over here. Maybe there are more men of that type. (Which, given the article above, seems likely).

My wife and I get the "looks" as well. She appears considerably younger than me, despite actually being slightly older, so that may be part of it. When we meet new people, they're often surprised to find she has an opinion of her own, is well qualified, well educated and well spoken. When she meets someone who doesn't seem to be able to rise above the stereotypes, she quite gently starts taking the mickey out of them... sometimes, they never cotton on.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 15.09.2010, 09:56
dr_gonzo's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 45 Times in 22 Posts
dr_gonzo has earned some respectdr_gonzo has earned some respect
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Why are these conclusions "obvious"? That foreigners who marry Swiss don't have an education? On what facts is this statement based?

Social Darwinism, anyone?
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 15.09.2010, 10:02
zanskar's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baden
Posts: 190
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 42 Times in 32 Posts
zanskar has made some interesting contributions
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Why are these conclusions "obvious"? That foreigners who marry Swiss don't have an education? On what facts is this statement based?

Social Darwinism, anyone?

This is a sweeping generalization, however there was a period in the mid 80's when many Swiss men flew in plane loads to Thailand and picked up a bride .They were all catalogued . Apparently many of them did not have much education and hence when they came here had to take up menial jobs..and it was not unusual to see that the man was considerably older than the woman...
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 15.09.2010, 10:06
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,356
Groaned at 428 Times in 333 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
Why are these conclusions "obvious"? That foreigners who marry Swiss don't have an education? On what facts is this statement based?

Social Darwinism, anyone?
No He didn't say Foreigners who marry swiss men don't have education. He refered to the mail-order brides. The majority of them do want to have a better life. They may have a good education but no chance to work and live a proper life from their work in their own country. Or have no education and want to get a better life.

In the whole scheme of why mixed couple are getting more popular in this country, mail-order brides are a very small % of it. The rest comes from meeting foreigners here or on trips, etc.

I am more interested on the deep reasons who bring swiss men to marry non-swiss women. Which I found very good answers in the article from MrVertigo above.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 15.09.2010, 10:12
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,200
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

Quote:
View Post
It's not always the man who does the paying.

I was once offered 12,000 CHF to marry a rather beautiful Ukranian girl. I declined but, last I heard, she'd married a Swiss guy.
Hehehe.. I have a few swiss male friends who married ukrainian girls. It was a chain reaction effect: the first one met his future-wife on internet, and then during the wedding many other single friends were "harpooned" by single ukrainian girls. They were very lucky that the girls were english speaking and well educated. They actually are having a happy life now in Switzerland, but my friends told me also about that "bad" look. They think it's mainly jealousy as their wives are really gorgeous.
Main reason mentioned by my friends was the beauty, the feminine touch and the fact that in ukrainian culture women give men a vers special feeling and give them the feeling of importance. Again this is what I was told by my friends.
Actually the most divorces in this type of couples happen when the swiss guy is less educated than the foreign woman. After a few years, the woman gets more independent and finds her own way and place in the swiss society.
__________________
Resist, support, donate: ACLU
They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #139  
Old 15.09.2010, 10:31
dr_gonzo's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Zürich
Posts: 40
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 45 Times in 22 Posts
dr_gonzo has earned some respectdr_gonzo has earned some respect
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

What about all the western women who "harpoon" Swiss men to get into this country? Why is this thread following the narrative that people from the developing world are all after a piece of our wealth? As if locals don't do the same thing... Does this make us feel superior somehow? And why not use statistics and data rather than just making sh*t up and calling it "obvious"? Who's educated here?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank dr_gonzo for this useful post:
This user groans at dr_gonzo for this post:
  #140  
Old 15.09.2010, 10:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: We are not all mail-order brides!

I had this discussion last night actually, the mail order bride thing has sky rocketed over the last few years, ever since I was at Uni and found my lecturers profile on 'Russian brides.com' it seems to have become majorly popular.
Although these days it's generally the Thai girl holding hands with the sweaty bear like paw of a 55 year old ex taxi driver wearing a short sleeve shirt and sporting the largest beer gut imaginable. Some people laugh it off and say it 'happens', but I think they ignore the bigger issue, it is modern slavery.

It is disgusting what the west is doing to the developing nations, these girls can't read or write most of the time and are being trafficked purely for sex. It really opens up the yawning chasm of human depravity when you realize that these guys know fine well that their 'girl friend' has no life has no education or future, but instead of helping them, they use them, and then throw them away when they are done.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swiss Farmers Shirt by Mail Order? EdF Other/general 18 16.09.2008 23:12
New Mail Service for Expats, Earth Class Mail jmiddlebrook Other/general 3 31.03.2008 23:36
Cheapest way to mail to US wah Other/general 0 08.11.2007 20:53
Mail on saturdays? moula Daily life 9 11.08.2007 19:32
Does your mail disappear? Jarlsberg2 Complaints corner 23 12.06.2007 17:05


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0