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-   -   Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools (https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/41012-foreign-children-swiss-public-schools.html)

justdoit 14.01.2009 17:54

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 381298)
So do you argue that children would integrate better by being incentivised to live in virtual, intellectual, ghettos miles away from the children around them? Interesting.

As a matter of fact religious discrimination is ruled against in the Constitution, so I'm pretty much sure no one is "forced" to swimming classes to that extent - considering that even in the days of yore when I went to school girls were excused from swimming lessons "at certain times of the month".

Are there not Muslim swimsuits out there?

Yes i do agree with this. As far as i know in schools where my kid is or where some of my friends kids are there is no compulsions on swimming or for that matter any activity. It is normally a sign up program.

Starbug 14.01.2009 17:56

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
You can put in with the school board to have your children sent to a different school - if you are so unhappy, then that might be an option, or bite the bullet and send them private. There are also private Swiss schools.
My daughter is in secondary school now and on her way to gymnasium. It hasn't always been easy, but on a whole I can't complain.
The other point is, how much rights need to be given to foreign children in the first place? This is Switzerland and the schools are geared for the Swiss standard and Swiss laws. Again, if you don't like it, send them private. This includes teaching English as a first language (not a national language), and the customs and holidays of other nationalities. There are only so many exceptions a system can make.
Bullying by teachers and the such like is certainly not tolerated in schools in the Bern area, neither is hitting. In this case, you can even complain to the youth services through your Gemeinde.

Judith Margaret 14.01.2009 17:57

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Thanks, that's exactly what we intend to do.

Yes am I am little cranky but heaven! he is just 8! I can not believe this people!:msnmad:

Judith Margaret 14.01.2009 18:01

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justdoit (Post 381299)
Yes i do agree with this. As far as i know in schools where my kid is or where some of my friends kids are there is no compulsions on swimming or for that matter any activity. It is normally a sign up program.

Well the think is that all Cantons work differently and so do Villages, three houses away there is a Muslim family having such a hard time, that;s how I know about this issue. The father is a lawyer and he is working in the creation of a non-profit organization to support Muslim families to defend their values and rights.

Judith Margaret 14.01.2009 18:08

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 381298)
So do you argue that children would integrate better by being incentivised to live in virtual, intellectual, ghettos miles away from the children around them? Interesting.

As a matter of fact religious discrimination is ruled against in the Constitution, so I'm pretty much sure no one is "forced" to swimming classes to that extent - considering that even in the days of yore when I went to school girls were excused from swimming lessons "at certain times of the month".

Are there not Muslim swimsuits out there?

Sure, whatever you say.
That's the same attitude the school authorities have, and that is why so many families endure hard times. So we are all mentally pertubed or so...

Integration means: time to learn he language, respect for your values and traditions, for your heritage. If an American mom doesn't feel safe leaving her kid walk alone to school that shouldn't be an issue, what the school has to do whit whether she walks her kid or not.
I

Guest 14.01.2009 18:19

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
I have a really big problem with people throwing everyone in one pot mainly due to their own bad experience.............

I have carefully read your initial post and if you behaved as agressive with the teachers of your child/ren as you come across to me in this post, then i can understand why you are on a bad footing with them. The average swiss simply blocks and baulks if someone is agressive in their tone and to them maybe comes across as very demanding.

The swiss school system is organised foederalistic,meaning that every Canton ,sometimes even every town and village has their own curriculum etc. So you can simply not throw the entire school system etc in one pot.

You mention in your initial post...' for the past three months'.... is this the time you have had troubles or the time your child/ren are in the swiss system?

Did you try to really learn about the swiss schooling system prior to moving here? Get all the info as in private versus public school, the curriculums etc etc etc

Switzerland,despite gloablisation has no law where it states that all info on schools has to be in english? After all, english is not a national language here. Despite it being the main language used at some international firms in Switzerland etc. It is not mandatory to issue this info in english. I dare say that in germany or austria for example this ain't the case either,but if i am wrong i stand corrected.

I am far from wanting to protect the teacher/s of your child/ren, in fact if the slapping really happened and the name calling as well, you stand a chance to have the teacher reprimanded,as far as i know it is not allowed anymore swiss wide to use physical punishment ( i will look further into that)

You can complain in writing , by listing all the incidents for example to the head teacher as well as to the Schulkommission, you can ask for what is called 'das rechtliche gehör' which is the right to be heard by the board officials,they can not deny you that.

I think, if you REALLY want the help of us forumers,it would be a good idea for a first to concentrate on YOUR story and problems, and not bring in other peoples problems, unless they write for themselves we can not judge or help where the problem may be or how to help with hints and tips. I understand your anger but it is not helping you or your problem.

Shorrick Mk2 14.01.2009 19:54

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381316)
Sure, whatever you say.
That's the same attitude the school authorities have, and that is why so many families endure hard times. So we are all mentally pertubed or so...

Once again I can't make sense of what you say.

Quote:

Integration means: time to learn he language,
Most people reporting here have attested to the existence of either dedicated foreigner integration classes, or extracurricular language support in the smaller towns. What gives?

Quote:

respect for your values and traditions, for your heritage.
Which traditions and values, and what part of your heritage have been met with disrespect?

tomcat 14.01.2009 20:02

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
You can take the Swiss out of the village, but you can't take the village out of the Swiss.

Developmentally, this country is behind some of its counterparts you mentioned. Any observation or criticism thereof will frequently be encountered by blank stares (think cow on mountain pasture) or outright hostility (if you don't like it, go back to where you came from). Cue banjo music from "Deliverance" here.

And the Swiss inferiority complex against Germany sometimes leads to xenophobic verbal outbursts against residents of that great Kanton to the North. I try to ignore it.

Switzerland - best viewed from an outbound airplane. ;)

(flamesuit and nomex gloves on) :cool:

Tilia 14.01.2009 20:53

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Judith, your experience corresponds fully with my personal observations after 20 years in Switzerland. Sure, not all foreign kids have problems but there sure are a lot of them (and their poor parents) that have. Much more than average. The problems being exactly the ones you point out.

raincookie 14.01.2009 21:10

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Some of what Tomcat says at the beginning of his post is quite true. (before the insulting bit!!)
If you expect to be treated in an exceptional way or have your special cultural needs accommodated here, then you are sadly misguided.

Switzerland is not Britain or the USA.

However, physical/verbal abuse of pupils by teachers is not accepted here either. The teacher(s) involved will be reprimanded and quite probably lose their
jobs. This was the case in our local school, when a teacher got involved in a fight.
But you MUST make sure that your facts are correct. Stories and experiences of other people are not enough.

alessandra_ 15.01.2009 01:22

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381277)
Nope it did not, when the teacher hit my child (she slapped him in front of the class) the board said that Switzerland agrees with certain amount of discipline in the classroom...

Of course there are laws in Switzerland which forbid this. It must be somewhere in the 'Swiss Criminal Code', and I checked for you in the 'Aargau School Laws' (no ideia how this is called in English) - § 38a. http://www.ag.ch/sar/output/default....ut/401-100.htm
You should go to the police and talk to them!
If you nor your husband speaks one of the local languages, then you can ask (in advance) for an interpreter...

Btw, not even my parents were allowed to be beaten in school, and this was in the 1950's in the deepest countryside in Switzerland.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381280)
Calling him stupid chinese sure is an insult

If this really had happened, what I believe you, than you should contact also the 'Schulbehoerde'. http://www.ag.ch/inspektorat/de/pub/beratung.php


Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381272)
Well many, they doubt everything foreign.
First case: German child from secondary school (with an IQ of 140!) placed in the real schule. Tested severaltimes amazingly in Zurich but Cantonal authorities said that placement is at teacher discretion :confused: , ok so what's wrong here...he speaks German...

Frankly speaking, this I think is a very dodgy story.
In addition to the teacher assement, all children have to do an independent IQ test so the school authorities will have a more objective valuation of the child. It will never depend on the single opinion of one teacher to which school the child will be sent to, and especially it will not depend on such a thing that he would speak 'only' German, but not Swiss German. :msncrazy:

Judith Margaret 15.01.2009 08:20

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Just to update, I got in touch last night with a family that was undergoing the same circumstances with their children (3). They also live in the same Canton, the solution for them was quite simple...take the kids to school in Germany.
So today I will meet this mom, and I will go with her to check out a private school in Germany, which is fairly close to our home. (From my kitchen window I can see Germany across the Rhine :msngrin:)

I want to thank the people that wrote me privately to give me some advise.

Also, I must make clear that if Liang comes home and tells me that his teacher slapped him, I believe him. He was so frightened.
We do not use any kind of physical discipline at home, and we are very careful with the use of words. We are a Chinese-Basque family. Honor is something very important for my husband, he has educated our children with all the tradition and values of Chinese culture.

My husband was transferred here by his company, but he has already requested a transference back to Helsinki or even to be moved to Shanghai, it will take some time, but we will leave as soon as possible. US and UK were nice, friendly places, with happy people, we deeply enjoyed our time in these countries.
I've met sweet people here, mostly foreigners, there is also a ladies group that I've attended sometimes, they were very nice. But again, mostly foreign people.

Regarding the comments full of hate that I have received I pity this people. Such a hard heart. Almost menacing, so rude, what a shame.

Ah, and before I forget, there is plenty of homeschooled people that are successful in life. My advisor in UCLA, a PhD in Economy, was homeschooled his whole life (until the last year of high school). He ended up graduating "Summa Cum Laude" in a prestigious American University. So homeschooling is definitely a good option.

I have not intended to cause any sort of revolution, but to get advise, and support.
I admit the putting everyone in the same "pot" seems unfair, but that's what I have received in here, an unfair treatment. I am expecting my third child, he will be due in April, I hope that we'll be somewhere else by then.

Wishing you all...no exceptions... a good time, and that you never have to endure what we have had to bear.

(And by the way my English is not perfect but is not that bad ;) )

superted 15.01.2009 08:29

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
:wave:

Everyones a winner.
Best Wishes for the future. Hope you find what your looking for.
peace

graham 16.01.2009 10:06

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
THere is a special mailing list for parents with children in Swiss schools.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Swiss-Schooling/

Some months ago there were a number of negative reports, and resulting generalizations, as well as a lot of constructive advice. Following this thread there were many positive reports. For instance
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Swiss-...g/message/3552

I urge you to join this list and follow up the threads. Search for messages on bullying if you would like cases and advice. The yahoo mailing list is a place for discussion with over 400 concerned and experienced member, better than here on an open forum which is indexed all over the world.

There is also a group for those who school at home: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolingch/. See also http://www.bildungzuhause.ch/ or french http://www.homeschool.ch.vu/

Graham

Texaner 16.01.2009 16:27

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat (Post 381370)
...Developmentally, this country is behind...

...Cue banjo music from "Deliverance" here...

...And the Swiss inferiority complex...

Switzerland - best viewed from an outbound airplane. ;)...

We really need to get you outta there, Tomcat! :D

I so wish I could somehow trade places with you, giving you a much-needed break back here in Texas, and experiencing first-hand (and in your stead) the grievous thing that life in Switzerland has become for you (and I'm really not being facetious). ;)

But alas, it seems as if "...between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us." :o

tomcat 16.01.2009 16:48

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texaner (Post 382569)
We really need to get you outta there, Tomcat! :D

I so wish I could somehow trade places with you, giving you a much-needed break back here in Texas, and experiencing first-hand (and in your stead) the grievous thing that life in Switzerland has become for you (and I'm really not being facetious). ;)

But alas, it seems as if "...between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us." :o

Well, I'll get my temporary break soon.

(insert visions of brisket and pulled pork and cole slaw here)

:msntongue:

What airport was that again in your area? (I read your blog --- sounds like you had fun --- go get your ticket!)

16.01.2009 16:51

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381226)
Children are mistreated, insulted, criticized, and damaged by an absurd system that still stuck in 1940!

Some more "modern" systems are equally damaging. It varies from case to case.

Quote:

All the information is in German, Italian or French. There is no where to look for your rights and you normally start fighting from the very first day.
Today more than 20% of the population in Switzerland is foreign, and yet no Swiss laws assure the rights of this people. (as far as I know)
And what's your point? Why should the information be given in different languages? These are the official languages and if you want to live here normally (without having a lot of stress, wasting a lot of time on stupid misunderstandings, etc) you should devote some time into studying.

The fact that there are 20% foreigners does not imply anything, because there are foreigners. And foreigners usually should either assimilate or get out after some time (and do not create ghettos as in some other 'more tolerant and open' countries).

Anyway which rights are you talking about? Because despite of your numerous answers and twisted examples, you were not able to articulate them clearly.

Sash_ 16.01.2009 17:02

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
"And foreigners usually should either assimilate or get out after some time"

No, they shouldn't assimilate. They should learn language, local rules and respect the law. And of course, keep and nurture their own culture.

Texaner 16.01.2009 17:02

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat (Post 382577)
Well, I'll get my temporary break soon.

(insert visions of brisket and pulled pork and cole slaw here) :msntongue:

I'll be waiting right here, beer in hand. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat (Post 382577)
What airport was that again in your area?

Weiser Air Park. If I haven't already provided it, PM or email me for a local number — I can't bear the thought of you having to gorge yourself on practically perfect BBQ all by yourself, especially after all the Helvetian trauma you've been through. :rolleyes:

Guest 16.01.2009 17:06

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 5AVeci (Post 382578)
foreigners usually should either assimilate or get out after some time

What does 'bilateral treaty' mean? I've forgotten...


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