English Forum Switzerland

English Forum Switzerland (https://www.englishforum.ch/forum.php)
-   Complaints corner (https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/)
-   -   Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools (https://www.englishforum.ch/complaints-corner/41012-foreign-children-swiss-public-schools.html)

Wollishofener 02.11.2009 00:25

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dino (Post 594452)
is there anything preventing these Muslim children from emigrating to Saudi Arabia?

Islam does not prohibit children from swimming. If you support some fundamentalists, maybe YOU emigrate to Saudi Arabia

flavio 04.11.2009 19:30

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 5AVeci (Post 382608)
There might be a linguistic mismatch. For me assimilation is more or less what you stated, with exception:
- nurture own culture unless the culture and traditions are in contradiction with the law/human rights/etc
- usually own culture erodes with time (or generations) and the migrants meld with the environment. Some aspects take longer to 'erode' (religion), but some are much quicker (language, norms, etc).


Resistance is Futile… You will be Assimilated
http://www.globalpov.com/images/borg.jpg

Panther 04.11.2009 19:59

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381286)
The right of integration, are you not aware that Muslim children are forced to the swimming classes, while their religion forbids such body exhibition.

I think the reason for that is : these Muslim kids grow up and sneak off to the pool or lake with their buddies, and almost if not certainly drown. There have been fatal tragedies in the past. Learning to swim is a right every child should have access to.

Panther 04.11.2009 20:06

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judith Margaret (Post 381277)
Nope it did not, when the teacher hit my child (she slapped him in front of the class) the board said that Switzerland agrees with certain amount of discipline in the classroom...


I think you should take this to a higher authority and DONT get stonewalled by anyone. Corporal punishment is not allowed, and should not be accepted. I understand your anger, I would be really upset too. There are terrible teachers out there, unfortunately your son has to have one. do your best to change his school, because from my experience teachers never change.

Good luck.

Panther 04.11.2009 20:07

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wollishofener (Post 595160)
Islam does not prohibit children from swimming. If you support some fundamentalists, maybe YOU emigrate to Saudi Arabia

are u always so tough??

Wollishofener 04.11.2009 20:36

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pather (Post 599434)
are u always so tough??

not always, but if I see that the Riyadh regime gets some brotherly support ;)

Wollishofener 04.11.2009 20:44

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcat (Post 382597)
Ah, that's why the Swiss Air Force needs to replace their aging F-5 Tigers ... with an airplane suitable for border patrol.

Vehicles like this

http://military.my-place.us/ra-18.gif

for example ? :rolleyes::p

Wollishofener 04.11.2009 20:49

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pather (Post 599426)
I think the reason for that is : these Muslim kids grow up and sneak off to the pool or lake with their buddies, and almost if not certainly drown. There have been fatal tragedies in the past. Learning to swim is a right every child should have access to.

Reality is that more than 99% of all Muslim children take part in swimming and many even excel in swimming. That the 1% is given enormous importance by the media and the SVP is normal. But anybody who pays too much attention becomes a fundamentalism-supporter and a KSA-chap.

ellie3759 04.11.2009 21:56

Re: Spanish school in Zurich area
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by elinita (Post 594409)
Hello everybody,
it was really sad to know about swiss schools.:msncrazy: We arrived not so long time ago and I`m looking for the spanish kindergarden (school). I`d like to ask if anybody know where i can find this such of information. Hope in Zurich not just only one. Will grateful for any help and advise. thank you in advance.

My son goes to a lovely private Kindergarten in Thalwil, where one of the owners is Spanish and the other German. They speak High German and English with the kids. It may be worth checking out - it is called Froschkoenig.

Suzagna 05.11.2009 10:07

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Hello Judith Margaret ! I am a Spanish mum in Basel and I still have no experience with the swiss public school system because my daughter is still too little. However, for what I have read about your experience, I think you should either look for another school or even better make an official complaint with the authorities. What you describe is an example of mobbing in the school. Insulting and slapping children in the school is bad, but when this comes from the teacher this is an absolute no-go and as far as I know it is illegal (I live in Basel-Land).

I wish you all the best.

Wordbird 09.11.2009 01:15

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
I have been both interested and saddened to read this thread. I had no idea there was a widespread problem in Swiss schools - I thought ours was an isolated case but now I wonder if there is more to it.

Thank you for the links to the Yahoo groups - I will go and investigate them thoroughly and may find the information I want there. But I'll ask the panel here as well, just for the hell of it.

This summer, my little girl started in our village's Kindergarten. We had not planned to stay in Switzerland long enough for her to enter the education system here, so had not worked on teaching her German. As a stay at home Mum, we saw no reason to spend money on a kitta or nursery place for her. However, the economic situation has meant we are unable to leave as my husband can't find a job in the UK.

My daughter didn't speak German when she started Kindergarten, though she had gone to waldspielgruppe and an english-language playgroup. We were reassured by lots of parents who said she'd be fine and she'd pick up the language really quickly. We were very pleased to discover that the school gives Additional German classes to pupils who don't speak German as their mother-tongue. From my daughter's class of 25 kids, 5 children take these extra lessons and at least 3 other children in her class speak fluent Swiss but have have non-Swiss fathers and are bilingual in various languages. So despite living in a small village out in the country, our school community is very cosmopolitan and - I had thought - an ideal environment for a non-Swiss child.

Sadly, when I went to my daughter's besuchmorgen on Firday I was horrified to discover that she is essentially ignored by her teacher and left to guess what she is supposed to do by watching the other kids. When she gets things wrong - as she will if she has had no instructions that she can understand - the teacher grabs her and is very brusque with her, pushing her about and pulling her across the room. I come from a family of teachers and have worked as a professional in the care industry, so I have certain expectations about professional behaviour, which this teacher did not live up to.

I completely understand that my daughter is 1 child of 25 and should get 1/25th of the teacher's attention, not 1:1 help. But I was really upset at the lack of sympathy or even respect with which my child was treated. At the following morning's besuchmorgen, which my husband went to and saw the same lack of care or consideration given to our daughter, he overheard one bilingual child tell her father 'that's X, she's slow'. (She's not.)

I am going to remove her from the school and place her in a private bilingual kindergarten, but I wanted advice on how to complain about the teacher and who to complain to in our geminde. Would it have any effect? Would it help the next child who came into this teacher's class?

Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Wollishofener 09.11.2009 01:33

Re: Foreign Children is Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pather (Post 599426)
I think the reason for that is : these Muslim kids grow up and sneak off to the pool or lake with their buddies, and almost if not certainly drown. There have been fatal tragedies in the past. Learning to swim is a right every child should have access to.

most of Muslim kids, quite unlike you, participate in swimming, so that YOU are the one who most unfortunately is not rescued

Wollishofener 09.11.2009 01:40

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzagna (Post 599970)
Hello Judith Margaret ! I am a Spanish mum in Basel and I still have no experience with the swiss public school system because my daughter is still too little. However, for what I have read about your experience, I think you should either look for another school or even better make an official complaint with the authorities. What you describe is an example of mobbing in the school. Insulting and slapping children in the school is bad, but when this comes from the teacher this is an absolute no-go and as far as I know it is illegal (I live in Basel-Land).

I wish you all the best.

take up contact with the teachers of your Kildergarten. Then you will look forward again

graham 09.11.2009 05:45

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wordbird (Post 603554)
... I wanted advice on how to complain about the teacher and who to complain to in our geminde. Would it have any effect? Would it help the next child who came into this teacher's class?

Your thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Yes you should complain, in written form, with first the facts and the background (including your husband's obligations), then your feelings and views, finally with the actions you expect and that you will take. Allow for any extenuating or mitigating factors (teacher's overload or competence) but don't let it me any acceptance. Translate it into German.

Copy to the teacher, send to any board which runs the kindergarten, copy to any parents' organisation. If no satisfactory response, copy to the gemeinde (the president if you don't find a responsible social or educatioanl officer) and to the cantonal education authority.

There is now a strong oversight of kindergartens. Pedagogical training is now required, which to many is a negative change - but schools achieved professionalism a century ago.

Hope this helps
Graham (30 years in Switzerland)

PS an isolated experience 20 years ago: a kindergarten teacher who blamed some problems with my children on "chaos at home". I made it clear to her that this was none of her business. In general I was very pleased by pre-school and kindergarten socialization and education.

graham 09.11.2009 05:46

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graham (Post 603579)
Yes you should complain, in written form, with first the facts and the background (including your husband's obligations), then

oops I mean "observations"
Graham

Mud 09.11.2009 06:03

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by graham (Post 603580)
oops I mean "observations"
Graham

1 minute is well within the time restrictions for editing posts ;).

ElsaMax 11.11.2009 12:08

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Hi,

I kindof think the same..that the swiss education sytem (especially before primary school) is complicated and in some case not compatible when you come from another country...another system...
Till the age of 6 it is a disaster...

In switzerland I have the case of my daughter who started kindegarden in France and finished her year (the last 6month) in a private swiss kindergarden.
Then in Fribourg Canton the kids of her age (she is 4.5 and born in december...which is a bad birthdate to enroll) dont start kindergarden before 5 years 3 months old ..
So I wrote a letter to the School Direction...who didnt want the kid to be enrolled (even if she had completed a year...) and told me to wait one more year....
I also gave him a letter from the previous school directors and he didnt even discuss and take that into account... "she s too young" he said..
In the letter was written that stopping such pedagogic work..wouldnt be good for that kid..that once you have started you dont suddenly stop the learning process...

So what could we do?? Either accept and let my daughter at home for one more year or enroll her in a creche playing with 4months babies and 2-3 years old ...the whole day?

So just for that we decided to move to the Bern Canton where she could go to the Kingergarden wihtout the age being a problem...
The only thing is that she still cannot go straight to the second year Kindergarden because again of her age!!! So she is now in the 1st class...which is better than nothing!!!

So I have to accept that she will have done 3 years of Kindergarden...(plus 2 primar years in the creche)...

Now I am in a process to make her go the second year...with a teacher not really willing to do that...and who would like to send the kids to a psychologic test & interview...to see whether that kid is mature enough for the 2nd year....

So I think something is quite wrong...here.... or am I?



PS: please forgive my written english...:msnblush:

ElsaMax 11.11.2009 12:28

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Hi,

I kindof think the same..that the swiss education sytem (especially before primary school) is complicated and in some case not compatible when you come from another country...another system...
Till the age of 6 it is a disaster...

In switzerland I have the case of my daughter who started kindegarden in France and finished her year (the last 6month) in a private swiss kindergarden.
Then in Fribourg Canton the kids of her age (she is 4.5 and born in december...which is a bad birthdate to enroll) dont start kindergarden before 5 years 3 months old ..
So I wrote a letter to the School Direction...who didnt want the kid to be enrolled (even if she had completed a year...) and told me to wait one more year....
I also gave him a letter from the previous school directors and he didnt even discuss and take that into account... "she s too young" he said..
In the letter was written that stopping such pedagogic work..wouldnt be good for that kid..that once you have started you dont suddenly stop the learning process...

So what could we do?? Either accept and let my daughter at home for one more year or enroll her in a creche playing with 4months babies and 2-3 years old ...the whole day?

So just for that we decided to move to the Bern Canton where she could go to the Kingergarden wihtout the age being a problem...
The only thing is that she still cannot go straight to the second year Kindergarden because again of her age!!! So she is now in the 1st class...which is better than nothing!!!

So I have to accept that she will have done 3 years of Kindergarden...(plus 2 primar years in the creche)...

Now I am in a process to make her go the second year...with a teacher not really willing to do that...and who would like to send the kids to a psychologic test & interview...to see whether that kid is mature enough for the 2nd year....

So I think something is quite wrong...here.... or am I?



PS: please forgive my written english...:msnblush:

Guest 11.11.2009 12:37

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
Zurich has a lot of different creches in the area. Perhaps look for one which caters more towards the older toddler and enrol your child there.

I think the advice you have been given sounds fairly reasonable but, if they have offered a psychological assessment of your child, take them up on it then you will know for sure if she is ready to go into a school.

I think kids get pushed into schooling (inc. Kindergarten) too early these days and would be thankful if, for example, my son could spend as long as possible learning through playing and having fun in his creche rather than a more regimented classroom environment.

Of course there will always be exceptions of children who are ready for school a bit early but, personally, I hope this isn't the case for my son. Sounds a bit odd to want to hold my child back but I think this period under 5 years is so valuable.

ElsaMax 11.11.2009 13:17

Re: Foreign Children in Swiss Public Schools
 
I totally agree that children learn a lot from playing but when they are ready to "learn" (and that is when parents feel that their kid is ready) and approach other things such as sensibilisation to letters or numbers, having a small educational program....then that should be possible...and its not the case here in CH.
Most 4-5y old children are ready--seen what they demand in a day...

I have my joungest 2.5 in a creche and some of the older kids are already 6(and I am glad my 4.5 daughter is in kindergarden!!!)and not going to kindergarden because parents want& decide to.
Then yes I think something is not right because they are mixed with very small ones. For socialisation it is OK.
But a 6 year old kid is not 100% stimulated being with smaller ones. Also educators dont have a special program for the older kids....they play the whole day...
Learning letters and number is also a game...Before 6 is the potential/interest/curiosity at his highest level...

Also after having played 2 years in kindergarden it is quite a big choc when they enter the 1st primary ....A slower approach (and earlier)would be better.


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:45.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0