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Old 04.03.2007, 16:39
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Is Switzerland/Zurich going downhill? (general rant)

Open question. I am basically observing more and more anti-social behaviour that reminds me of back home (UK). I know CH is still lot safer but I am seeing a noticeable decline. People drinking and chucking beer cans in the train, swearing at normal people etc. Have you noticed a similar decline?

Something changed yesterday for me personally that kind of shattered my image of ZH. It's not like something major happened that I have not witnessed before in ZH but I saw lot of different things that made me kind of connect the dots. I think me being non-white plays a big part in this feeling. I am a peaceful non-violent type of guy but some idiots assume due to my skin colour that I might be up for a scrap!

I was stuck in the train yesterday with lot of skin heads and it gave me a very uneasy feeling as they were talking about black this black that...being with my white partner made matters worse as I had to worry not only about my safety but hers. Anyway nothing happened but so easily things could have gone wrong.

What are your thoughts on the Euro2008 coming? There will be increased presence of drunk folks all over ZH and I bet lot of trouble makers as well.

Any views on some of the aggressive ice hockey fans while we are at it?

Ok sorry that I am rambling. It's just that I am starting to feel lost in ZH/UK/Europe I hate not being able to blend in visually.

Edit- I did not mean to attack any race or nationality as most people are good. I basically feel lost as just few idiots can manage to dent my quality of life!

Last edited by jamaicanRUM; 04.03.2007 at 17:09.
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Old 04.03.2007, 17:07
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Good old US: drinking in public is basically banned everywhere. I literally was shocked when I first came to Europe (in Hamburg) and saw this... I've since adapted.

I have to say, I feel really uncomfortable riding the S-Bahn, and there are quite a few sketchy (dodgy) stations. I have never had an imaginary image of Switzerland, especially since I've arrived here. The public transit is excellent, but beyond that there is really nothing special. Nice suburbs / towns / neighborhoods here are pretty much the same as in the States -- and there are plenty of slums and sketchy neighborhoods as well. But I suppose everyone else can maintain happy images of a happy Switzerland, especially since if you are here from an English-speaking country you are more than likely well paid.
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Old 04.03.2007, 19:21
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
Open question. I am basically observing more and more anti-social behaviour that reminds me of back home (UK). I know CH is still lot safer but I am seeing a noticeable decline. People drinking and chucking beer cans in the train, swearing at normal people etc. Have you noticed a similar decline?

Something changed yesterday for me personally that kind of shattered my image of ZH. It's not like something major happened that I have not witnessed before in ZH but I saw lot of different things that made me kind of connect the dots. I think me being non-white plays a big part in this feeling. I am a peaceful non-violent type of guy but some idiots assume due to my skin colour that I might be up for a scrap!

I was stuck in the train yesterday with lot of skin heads and it gave me a very uneasy feeling as they were talking about black this black that...being with my white partner made matters worse as I had to worry not only about my safety but hers. Anyway nothing happened but so easily things could have gone wrong.

What are your thoughts on the Euro2008 coming? There will be increased presence of drunk folks all over ZH and I bet lot of trouble makers as well.

Any views on some of the aggressive ice hockey fans while we are at it?

Ok sorry that I am rambling. It's just that I am starting to feel lost in ZH/UK/Europe I hate not being able to blend in visually.

Edit- I did not mean to attack any race or nationality as most people are good. I basically feel lost as just few idiots can manage to dent my quality of life!
Yes - I'd agree that Switzerland is going downhill a bit, I noticed it over the course of my time living there. Anti-social behaviour was getting that little bit more prevalent, the trains were getting ever so slightly grottier, more vandalism etc. etc.

It's still quite a way behind the UK though. I'd guess somewhere between 15-20 years less 'degraded'. Long term, I'd guess it'll go the same way but as I said we're talking decades.

Also, don't forget that the UK isn't one huge hellish hole, as one tends to imagine after living in CH for a while. The British media plays up the worst aspects and gives a very false impression of things and the Swiss do like to imagine that Switzerland is the pinnacle of civilisation, far ahead of any other country - an attitude which can pervade even into cynical expat's mindsets.

The majority of the UK is still fine to live in. Maybe not as clinically clean or safe as the average place in Switzerland, but then not as 'sterile' feeling either.
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Old 04.03.2007, 19:28
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
Good old US: drinking in public is basically banned everywhere. I literally was shocked when I first came to Europe (in Hamburg) and saw this... I've since adapted.

....
All I can say is "Gott Sei Dank"! Good old US, drinking banned in public! Give me a break - let's treat adults as adults, and at the same time, crack down on anti-social beahviour. There is nothing nicer than a beer or three in the great outdoors - witness, I recall, you own inviation to a beer garden in Baden.

On the general rant, I experienced my first ill-feeling towards foreigners today. I was on a tram to Enge with a friend and we were conversing in English. We got off and I head this guy say "Auslander <expletive deleted> off". Nah, can't be ... until as we followed him through the station, and he repeated it at least three times. I laughed, seeing as I could have picked him up, and had him for breakfast. What gives? But, in my limited experience, most Swiss are ... well, at least polite and often helpful.

But, I would rather drunken rants than no drinking in public, any day.

Last edited by gooner; 14.11.2007 at 23:32. Reason: <expletive deleted>
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Old 04.03.2007, 20:02
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

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All I can say is "Gott Sei Dank"! Good old US, drinking banned in public! Give me a break - let's treat adults as adults, and at the same time, crack down on anti-social beahviour. There is nothing nicer than a beer or three in the great outdoors - witness, I recall, you own inviation to a beer garden in Baden.

On the general rant, I experienced my first ill-feeling towards foreigners today. I was on a tram to Enge with a friend and we were conversing in English. We got off and I head this guy say "Auslander <expletive deleted> off". Nah, can't be ... until as we followed him through the station, and he repeated it at least three times. I laughed, seeing as I could have picked him up, and had him for breakfast. What gives? But, in my limited experience, most Swiss are ... well, at least polite and often helpful.

But, I would rather drunken rants than no drinking in public, any day.
Mhm, you ignored my comment: "I've since adapted"... I said I initially found that strange, which does not mean that I am against such behavior among responsible individuals. As if a beer garden was the same thing as walking down the street with a beer! Particularly as "said" biergarten is surrounded by an extremely large wall, which would in turn make any jokes about "said" biergarten stupid. Arse...

And by the way, I can understand Swiss German fairly well now

Last edited by gooner; 14.11.2007 at 23:32. Reason: <expletive deleted>
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Old 04.03.2007, 21:07
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

I feel for you JR (in the nicest possible way, of course).

It's not just CH/ZH that is going downhill, it's the whole damn world. As in most things, Switzerland is a few years behind...
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Old 04.03.2007, 21:25
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:

I was stuck in the train yesterday with lot of skin heads and it gave me a very uneasy feeling as they were talking about black this black that...being with my white partner made matters worse as I had to worry not only about my safety but hers. Anyway nothing happened but so easily things could have gone wrong.
there is no decline in switzerland, it's been always like that. maybe you lost your "Flanders" glasses and you see now a bit of the "real" thing. i noticed that you have had an ultra idealistic vision of this country (which i've had too at the time i came here) if they are not the skins in the train, your office mates will take care of mobb you big time. i'm happy that you are able to see it now. believe, me you will see more stuff like that. congratulations!
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Old 04.03.2007, 21:26
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Strange

It was only on Saturday while walking in our village that I mentioned to my other half that the amount of rubbish laying around had increased. This seems to have increased during the last year. A earlier walk that day with my dog I noticed several beer bottles on a small grassed area when we returned around lunch time these had all been smashed in the kiddies play area (SHAME).

Yobs hanging around smoking dope I don’t understand the rules on that because you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to see who has the dope.

DC
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Old 04.03.2007, 23:05
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Maybe you should learn to protect yourself by ANY means possible. The police are here to provide security not to protect you. So when someone kills you, they come around and draw a white line around your dead body and go look for the bad guy, that's it! This ain't Mr. Rodgers neighborhood we're living in, this is the real world and when you step out of your pad, you're on your own bud. Learn to fight! Believe me, I'm a non violent person like you, but I'm ready to fight if I have too. Good luck.
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Old 05.03.2007, 10:11
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

I think you're taking you avatar a bit far. Next you'll be sitting at the deserted station, in a creaking rocking chair buzzing flies, waiting for the noon train.

dave


Quote:
Maybe you should learn to protect yourself by ANY means possible. The police are here to provide security not to protect you. So when someone kills you, they come around and draw a white line around your dead body and go look for the bad guy, that's it! This ain't Mr. Rodgers neighborhood we're living in, this is the real world and when you step out of your pad, you're on your own bud. Learn to fight! Believe me, I'm a non violent person like you, but I'm ready to fight if I have too. Good luck.
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Old 05.03.2007, 10:24
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Hi again JR;

Try to think of this from the point of view of the skinheads. I mean, you've had your head shaved - and got unbelievable stick from you Mum for it. You've spent all your spare cash on Doc Martins and all the gear. Finally you've been dragged away from 'Deal or No Deal' on the box, Play Station etc. and got to ride on a train.

You can hardly sit neatly with a bunch of your bald pals and say "'Aaarbig meit'nand". You've gotta walk the walk and talk the talk...
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Old 05.03.2007, 10:41
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

An observation to add to this. Perhaps showing Die Schweiz is a more "normal" country than some of us like to think.

Yesterday (Sunday), I was wandering round the streets North of Haerdbruecke in Zuerich, when I found myself in the middle of a line of Swiss heavies with "POLIZEI" on their jackets.

Blue uniforms, round shields, armoured vans, I saw what I hoped was a tear gas gun (because anything else with a muzzle that wide would have to be an RPG launcher).

Looking down the street was a crowd of a few hundred people heading across the road.

I made myself scarce.

There was no trouble, but the pigs^H^H^H^H local law enforcement officers were out in force, just in case, no doubt.
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Old 05.03.2007, 15:52
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
there is no decline in switzerland, it's been always like that. maybe you lost your "Flanders" glasses and you see now a bit of the "real" thing. i noticed that you have had an ultra idealistic vision of this country (which i've had too at the time i came here) if they are not the skins in the train, your office mates will take care of mobb you big time. i'm happy that you are able to see it now. believe, me you will see more stuff like that. congratulations!
Nah! I don't have ultra idealistic vision of ANY place on this planet. Just cause I defended CH few times don't mean that I am lover of all things Swiss I have zero emotional attachment to CH or for that matter to any country. Think of me as a global mercenary

Quote:
Maybe you should learn to protect yourself by ANY means possible. The police are here to provide security not to protect you. So when someone kills you, they come around and draw a white line around your dead body and go look for the bad guy, that's it! This ain't Mr. Rodgers neighborhood we're living in, this is the real world and when you step out of your pad, you're on your own bud. Learn to fight! Believe me, I'm a non violent person like you, but I'm ready to fight if I have too. Good luck.
Why do you think that I go gym regularly? That said I am not suddenly going to become 7feet tall and be able to take on 8-9 people + protect my partner at the same time. If someone gets physical with me or dares touch my partner then I will fight Although it's wiser I would say to avoid physical confrontation. Anyway what means do you employ? You carrry a nanchak or something?
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:02
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
An observation to add to this. Perhaps showing Die Schweiz is a more "normal" country than some of us like to think.

Yesterday (Sunday), I was wandering round the streets North of Haerdbruecke in Zuerich, when I found myself in the middle of a line of Swiss heavies with "POLIZEI" on their jackets.

Blue uniforms, round shields, armoured vans, I saw what I hoped was a tear gas gun (because anything else with a muzzle that wide would have to be an RPG launcher).

Looking down the street was a crowd of a few hundred people heading across the road.

I made myself scarce.

There was no trouble, but the pigs^H^H^H^H local law enforcement officers were out in force, just in case, no doubt.
Hardbrücke => Hardturm stadium, FCB playing (footie) against GCZ.

Whenever FC Basel plays the Grasshoppers Zurich, it's riot time. Sorta when HC Lugano comes to battle the ZSC Lions/Kloten Flyers. Just plain old hooliganism, nothing to see here, carry on!
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:17
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Not looking forward to Euro2008. Well I absolutely love football but not the crap it could bring locally. Any matches in Zurich? I assume lot of people will land in Zurich I remember when England played Liechtenstein...I was at ZH Banhof and boy did I meet some hardcore chavs from England
More of this to look forward to-

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...0/ai_n12737128

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...0/ai_n12737128
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:38
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

I used to share a house with a (now very successful) internet entrepreneur. He thought he would try his chances with the nunchak things after getting hassled in Manchester, and ended up getting beaten up by some locals. His judgement was obviously flawed in some regards..all it did was to give them something to hit him with.

dave



Quote:
Although it's wiser I would say to avoid physical confrontation. Anyway what means do you employ? You carrry a nanchak or something?
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Old 05.03.2007, 16:47
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
I used to share a house with a (now very successful) internet entrepreneur. He thought he would try his chances with the nunchak things after getting hassled in Manchester, and ended up getting beaten up by some locals. His judgement was obviously flawed in some regards..all it did was to give them something to hit him with.

dave
Exactly or worse you will get done by the police for carrying an illegal weapon
A force field is what I need

Last edited by jamaicanRUM; 05.03.2007 at 18:31.
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Old 05.03.2007, 18:24
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

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Nah! I don't have ultra idealistic vision of ANY place on this planet. Just cause I defended CH few times don't mean that I am lover of all things Swiss I have zero emotional attachment to CH or for that matter to any country. Think of me as a global mercenary



Why do you think that I go gym regularly? That said I am not suddenly going to become 7feet tall and be able to take on 8-9 people + protect my partner at the same time. If someone gets physical with me or dares touch my partner then I will fight Although it's wiser I would say to avoid physical confrontation. Anyway what means do you employ? You carrry a nanchak or something?
Sorry I can't say. I'm '5 "10.5 & 150lbs and I have no fear. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 05.03.2007, 18:47
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

While I am moaning I might as well add another moan! Today "feather finger" postman came to my house :-) I was waiting for a delivery all day and hitting refresh on the priority parcel tracking page. Next thing I see on the tracking page is that the parcel has gone back to the post office (around 1pm). So the postman had come and left the yellow slip. Sucker never pressed my ringer! Either he pressed the wrong button or he has feather fingers!!!

Being impatient kind of guy I waited till 5:30 and headed to the post office. The lazy cow did not even go to check the parcel!¨She told me to just come back tomorrow :-(
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Old 05.03.2007, 19:10
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Re: Is CH/ZH going downhill? (general rant)

Quote:
A force field is what I need
How about that ?

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