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Old 13.03.2007, 13:48
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it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

after months of debating the issue to define if the swiss are racist or not, a local study (university of freiburg) demonstrates that swiss employers are actually racist (or those who like language tinkering would say xenophobic, the consequences are the same...) when it comes to select candidates for apprenticeships; balkan and turk dudes lead the rejected etnicithies.

well, finally some EF folks here have an explanation for all those negative answers from diverse HR departments! keep trying, though!

http://www.20min.ch/news/schweiz/story/20533980

possibly, in a couple of months another study will demonstrate that the policemen are also racist, and then the bakers, the teachers, the hoteliers, the watchmakers, etc.
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Old 13.03.2007, 14:41
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

Official?

Swiss employers are racist - all swiss employers?
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Old 13.03.2007, 14:47
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

"Laut den Forschern kann die Studie keine Repräsentativität gewährleisten. Sie mahnen deshalb zu Vorsicht bei Verallgemeinerungen der Resultate."

Case closed
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Old 13.03.2007, 15:06
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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"Laut den Forschern kann die Studie keine Repräsentativität gewährleisten. Sie mahnen deshalb zu Vorsicht bei Verallgemeinerungen der Resultate."

Case closed
no, they aren't all like this. just the majority.

as every study, is a generalisation that indicates a trend. in this case, the point is that foreigners are in clear disadvantage -regardless qualifications- when it goes to grant apprenticeship vacancies . that's all.

why are you so bothered?
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Old 13.03.2007, 15:33
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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why are you so bothered?
Hmm .. I'm not really bothered actually. It's not official. Thats all I wanted to say and you can't generalise everything.

If you want to know my personal opinion, I don't know if it's really true because here in Basel I see lots of "foreign looking" people with all sort of jobs. In my office I deal with other employees called "alonso, türkilmaz or ludovic" from all over the country. Hence I don't think that they discriminate the "swiss of foreign descent". IF they have good marks and good repuation, they give them jobs. Still, lot's of the balkan section have poor education and bad reputation. Consequently they'll have less job opportunities. If they'd work hard like the tamils for instance, there would be no problem. I never see tamils complaining. Because there isn't much to complain if you adjust and act adequate. I agree with the discrimination of men though. They prefer to employ mainly females in office or administrational jobs.

Next time don't go after the whole nation again without adequate proof. Also the opinions on this forum are not necessarily, nationwide applicable.
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Old 13.03.2007, 15:45
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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"Laut den Forschern kann die Studie keine Repräsentativität gewährleisten. Sie mahnen deshalb zu Vorsicht bei Verallgemeinerungen der Resultate."

Case closed
Andreas, can you translate this to English for the benefit of our members who do not read German. Not so case closed for them .

Last edited by Lou; 13.03.2007 at 15:55. Reason: Typo
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Old 13.03.2007, 15:52
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Andreas, can you translate this to English for the benefit of our members who do not read Ferman. Not so case closed for them .
According to the researchers, the study cannot ensure representativeness. They remind therefore to be cautious with eventual generalisations of the results.
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Old 13.03.2007, 15:56
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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According to the researchers, the study cannot ensure representativeness. They remind therefore to be cautious with eventual generalisations of the results.
Thanks. That quote should be applied to all research of this nature.
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Old 13.03.2007, 17:48
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

andres, are you the one who posted this statement in 20 min?

"Ich bin selber ein Arbeitgeber mit 8 Mitarbeiter Ich kann das nur bestätigen und würde selber nie mehr ein ausländer einstellen und schon gar keiner aus dem Balkan.Wir haben es versucht aber wurden nur Entäuscht und bestohlen.Es fehlt an Inteligenz und Anstand"
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Old 13.03.2007, 18:22
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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andres, are you the one who posted this statement in 20 min?

"Ich bin selber ein Arbeitgeber mit 8 Mitarbeiter Ich kann das nur bestätigen und würde selber nie mehr ein ausländer einstellen und schon gar keiner aus dem Balkan.Wir haben es versucht aber wurden nur Entäuscht und bestohlen.Es fehlt an Inteligenz und Anstand"
You should ask yourself if the swiss are the problem here or the "ausländers". Look I hardly disbelieve what that persons says. If they steal or don't come to work, it's not a swiss problem. Thats just his personal opinion. The swiss don't like it all !! when they get deceived. Not only by foreigners but also by their fellow countrymen as they're generally loyal and very resentful.

However that's not my personal opinion as I would give everybody a chance. I grew up with lots of "secondos" and went trough all this cultural bullshit personally and always showed a lot of understanding to everybody. Don't dare to call me racist or whatsoever because you and I know that the problem comes from both sides, the foreigners and the swiss.
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Old 13.03.2007, 22:31
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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You should ask yourself if the swiss are the problem here or the "ausländers". Look I hardly disbelieve what that persons says. If they steal or don't come to work, it's not a swiss problem. Thats just his personal opinion. The swiss don't like it all !! when they get deceived. Not only by foreigners but also by their fellow countrymen as they're generally loyal and very resentful.

However that's not my personal opinion as I would give everybody a chance. I grew up with lots of "secondos" and went trough all this cultural bullshit personally and always showed a lot of understanding to everybody. Don't dare to call me racist or whatsoever because you and I know that the problem comes from both sides, the foreigners and the swiss.
being the solution in swiss hands is obvious that i should not ask myself anything. i cannot solve the problem. swiss dudes can, and they don't do it. discrimination is legalised in CH. is not only that a foreigner must deal with swiss prejudices, but also swiss laws that ask funny things from employers who want hire somebody from abroad. 5 years to get a proper work permit??? c'mon!
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Old 13.03.2007, 22:47
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

This same problem exists in France. I would say that it is related to the fact that Swiss employers typically require an applicant's nationality, place a birth, their picture and a lot of other information regarding the applicant's personal beliefs, none of which would impact performance, on CVs. Some of this behavior, if I am not mistaken, is forbidden in the United States? I was shocked when I had to include them! Why should we be surprised that some Swiss employers use this information to screen applicants? Everyone already agrees that the French do the same...
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Old 13.03.2007, 23:14
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

Edited for good.

Last edited by UserName; 18.03.2007 at 13:37. Reason: Edited for good.
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Old 13.03.2007, 23:16
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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Be prepared for the Next Big Challenge.


In 30 years, China, India, Vietnam, Japan, Singapore and South Korea will be the most powerful economies in the world.


Population shrinkage will leave Europe in danger waters. U.S will be completely isolated because of its policies. Europeans might totally face a difficult situation in the coming decades !! Things that are happening now will be reversed on you !!
What would you have said in the 1970s and 1980s? Aren't South Korea, Japan and China going to be facing population shrinkage *at least* on par with Europe?!?
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Old 14.03.2007, 00:13
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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What would you have said in the 1970s and 1980s? Aren't South Korea, Japan and China going to be facing population shrinkage *at least* on par with Europe?!?
Not really, since none of these countries provide "social Security", so an aging population is not that big an impact on "quality of life". Also, it is not a question of the quality of life of these nations coming up to "par" with "western" nations, rather they dragging the western quality of life down... no guesses as to whose life is affected more.
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Old 14.03.2007, 10:20
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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This same problem exists in France. I would say that it is related to the fact that Swiss employers typically require an applicant's nationality, place a birth, their picture and a lot of other information regarding the applicant's personal beliefs, none of which would impact performance, on CVs. Some of this behavior, if I am not mistaken, is forbidden in the United States? I was shocked when I had to include them! Why should we be surprised that some Swiss employers use this information to screen applicants? Everyone already agrees that the French do the same...
You're right. That's how they select candidates. The swiss are not even aware of that and the ones of foreign descent get repeatingly discriminated.

Zombie it seems that you've already made up your mind. I could argue with you for an eternity I guess, so I'll just leave it here.
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Old 14.03.2007, 12:06
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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You're right. That's how they select candidates. The swiss are not even aware of that and the ones of foreign descent get repeatingly discriminated.

Zombie it seems that you've already made up your mind. I could argue with you for an eternity I guess, so I'll just leave it here.
hey andres, do you think that after living 15 years in CH a couple of lines in a forum can erase reality? no seriously, it seems that you actually review your position. i salute that!
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Old 14.03.2007, 12:23
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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hey andres, do you think that after living 15 years in CH a couple of lines in a forum can erase reality? no seriously, it seems that you actually review your position. i salute that!
Look, I'm not against or with the swiss in this case. Both have issues and the only way to make it work, is to debate it on a politcal level. Anyway a lot of foreigners or swiss with foreign descent (mostly of eastern european descent) complain about discrimination. Therefore it's only a matter of time. The 20min article might be the first step to equality in this matter.
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Old 14.03.2007, 12:35
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Re: it's official, at least, swiss employers are racist.

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Look, I'm not against or with the swiss in this case. Both have issues and the only way to make it work, is to debate it on a politcal level. Anyway a lot of foreigners or swiss with foreign descent (mostly of eastern european descent) complain about discrimination. Therefore it's only a matter of time. The 20min article might be the first step to equality in this matter.
that's maybe the big drawback of swiss society. most swiss are unable to embrace a case. they are neither for or against something. is that you don't have an opinion? or you do not want to expose it? that puzzles me.
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Old 14.03.2007, 12:57
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that's maybe the big drawback of swiss society. most swiss are unable to embrace a case. they are neither for or against something. is that you don't have an opinion? or you do not want to expose it? that puzzles me.
I already wrote my opinion down. As you can see I comprehend some of the swiss complaints as much as the foreigners who complain about discrimination.

I think what spmull wrote is true. The disclosure of all the personal data in your CV allows swiss employers to select personnel by nationality and race which can give reason to assume racial segregation.

I'm for equality and against discrimination. However I can imagine that it takes a lot of time to work that over in Switzerland. The EU has adopted a new anti-discrimination law which protects workers of non-european descent. That would be a good start but it allows foreigners to take advantage of the new law and force employement, and that, in contradiction, can create new tensions between locals and foreigners.

It's quiete delicate ...
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